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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWerebison View Post
    They always seemed so much smarter back then. Brilliant quotes from political minds back then. I wonder if they had so much political division, to the point where each party just wanted to work on ruining the other rather than fixing the problems, as we have. If their campaigns were more about points and winning just for the sake of winning rather than because you truly believe in your country and want to improve the lives of your fellow countrymen.
    I know. Politicians are always so mean spirited and all they ever do is sling mud. I wish we could have Presidential campaigns like they had back in the day.

    "... murder, robbery, rape, adultery and incest will be openly taught and practiced. The air will be rent with the cries of the distressed, the soil will be soaked with blood, and the nation black with crimes."
    That's Thomas Jefferson regarding what would happen if John Adams won the Presidency over him. Good old American politics. Never change.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-12 at 03:30 AM ----------

    And honestly, American politics is really pretty civil. I mean really civil.

    Not just compared to nations like India in parliament:



    But also nations like the UK:



    In comparison, here's one of the most violent and rude altercations in the US Senate. The "fight" starts 45 seconds in.

    Last edited by Laize; 2012-11-12 at 03:32 AM.

  2. #222
    Epic! OneSent's Avatar
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    The U.S. is going downhill regardless of who's in office.

    You can take any possible political candidate from the past 30 years and put him in the seat, and we would still be in the exact same place we are today. I guarantee it.

    We have set ourselves up a lifestyle which can only foster more problems down the road. Within the next decade or so, we are going to have to start taking drastic measures if we want this to continue working and it's not going to be very pretty.

    As a nation and as a civilization, we are further ahead than at any other point in our existence, yet we are falling faster than ever before. How is it that previous civilizations thrived for thousands of years when we, as a nation only 236 years old, can barely keep it together?

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    I know. Politicians are always so mean spirited and all they ever do is sling mud. I wish we could have Presidential campaigns like they had back in the day.



    That's Thomas Jefferson regarding what would happen if John Adams won the Presidency over him. Good old American politics. Never change.
    Hahahaha. Good. At least it's good to know we've always been a little fucked in the head. I kinda feel better. XD
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  4. #224
    Brewmaster slackjawsix's Avatar
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    glad to know OP isnt biased and can spell
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  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    Really? I dont think its illegal. States have the right to leave the US. Why wouldnt they? If Texas believes that its better for them to leave then they should. I as a resident of Virginia dont care, and wouldnt care if Virginia decided to leave.
    The Supreme Court of the US upheld that secession is illegal. It was even previously ruled that, since secession was illegal, that the Confederate government in Texas was an illegitimate government and that Texas never seceded from the union.



    What grounds the the US military have to attack Texas if it secedes?

    The reason states wont secede has nothing to do with the US military, it has to do with not only a lot of laws that are going to have to change, as well as politicians at the top spots are not going to allow their own state to leave.

    In a country that was founded on becoming independent it would be hypocritical to not let states secede.
    Rebelling against the federal government. There are many reasons that states won't try secede.

    The US wasn't founded on being independent. The Revolutionary War was started based on taxation without representation. If the colonies had been given representation with which to discuss tax rates with, they would have stayed British because we were perfectly fine with being a British colony. The Declaration of Independence is named as such to declare our independence from Britain, not to promote independence itself.
    Last edited by Bergtau; 2012-11-12 at 03:45 AM.

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  6. #226
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    Secession through consent of the States is not explicitly illegal, which is what the states on the current list are petitioning for...Texas v White established that while secession by proclamation (or however you want to describe just "up and leaving") is unconstitutional, doing so via a petition to the Pres. and Congress is not.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by OneSent View Post
    The U.S. is going downhill regardless of who's in office.

    You can take any possible political candidate from the past 30 years and put him in the seat, and we would still be in the exact same place we are today. I guarantee it.
    This is probably the best thing to take out of this election; your choice didn't matter. The system has too much steam; it doesn't matter who's at the front of the rollercoaster. It wouldn't have mattered if Jesus H Ron Paul took the seat.

    As a nation and as a civilization, we are further ahead than at any other point in our existence, yet we are falling faster than ever before. How is it that previous civilizations thrived for thousands of years when we, as a nation only 236 years old, can barely keep it together?
    You can count the number of civilizations that survived for thousands of years on one hand. 236 years is pretty average so far as imperialistic civilizations go, and the lifecycle of civilisations is pretty well documented. Don't get too caught up.

  8. #228
    Bloodsail Admiral Bikni's Avatar
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    In George W. Bush, Republicans had possibly the worst president in the history of the US, the man deregulated financial institutions allowing them to build the housing bubble, pursue risky trades unchecked, sinking western economies to its knees; run a tab on 2 wars, one of them under absolutely outrageous pretexts, any world leader from another country would be under trial for crimes against humanity, wars that cost thousands of young American life's not to mention the Iraqi civilians which no one seems to care about, wars that cost the American tax payer not billions but trillions of dollars, so the Bush cartel and their Saudi buddies can continue to get their billions from oil revenue; 50% of Bushes tax cuts benefited 5% of the American population, straining the middle class, which in the view of many economists is the engine of a healthy economy.

    The man was a DISASTER, the result of this election is exactly what democracy is for. Stop listening to scaremongers in the media, instead of acting like kids who think they can't sleep because they have a imaginary boogeyman man in his room, grow up and get a life.
    “The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church”

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  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    The President writes the budget.
    No he doesn't. he approves it. Big difference.

  10. #230
    What is up with all the Glenn Beck Rush Limbaugh nonsense post?

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by OneSent View Post
    The U.S. is going downhill regardless of who's in office.

    You can take any possible political candidate from the past 30 years and put him in the seat, and we would still be in the exact same place we are today. I guarantee it.

    We have set ourselves up a lifestyle which can only foster more problems down the road. Within the next decade or so, we are going to have to start taking drastic measures if we want this to continue working and it's not going to be very pretty.

    As a nation and as a civilization, we are further ahead than at any other point in our existence, yet we are falling faster than ever before. How is it that previous civilizations thrived for thousands of years when we, as a nation only 236 years old, can barely keep it together?
    Again, people have been saying this for the past 236 years. Wake me when it happens.

    This isn't to say we don't have problems, of course we do. We might overcome them faster if we, as a people, didn't have two problem solving modes:
    1. It's not my fault. Here are all the reasons it is (insert scapegoat here)'s fault.
    2. This is just another sign of the inevitable decline of America under the tyrannical rule of my opponent.
    We keep this up until the last possible moment, and then slap together a compromise that will hold us until the next crisis.

    By we, I don't mean just Americans. This is a human nature kind of thing.

    The whole political system reminds of of that "That's a problem for future Homer" episode of the Simpsons.
    Last edited by buck008; 2012-11-12 at 04:03 AM.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Tahapenes View Post
    No he doesn't. he approves it. Big difference.
    Wow I just facepalmed so hard I think I gave myself a concussion.

    Congress presents BILLS to the President for him to sign or veto.

    The PRESIDENT presents a BUDGET to Congress for them to approve or reject.

    Have Civics courses in America fallen so far?

  13. #233
    High Overlord ares1023's Avatar
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    Really if you say Texas should leave, then you should also say California should too

  14. #234
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    Read the article. They're citizen petitions. They have no popular support whatsoever. Some of them aren't even in southern states.

    And I really wish people would stop this whole "lolol get rid of Texas" shit. It's far less conservative as whole than most people would believe, and the size of the state means that there's a diversity of local politics even within the state GOP. It's also the third most populous state in the US and has a very large economy, particularly in technology and research.
    Last edited by Narfwak; 2012-11-12 at 04:08 AM.
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  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Wow I just facepalmed so hard I think I gave myself a concussion.

    Congress presents BILLS to the President for him to sign or veto.

    The PRESIDENT presents a BUDGET to Congress for them to approve or reject.

    Have Civics courses in America fallen so far?
    Its odd that as written the President should present a budget request to congress (and he does) and then congress should really approve/deny the different aspects of it, instead of the whole thing. Congress should also be able to add stuff to it for laws they are planning to pass and w/e. But I suppose that would be thinking ahead.

    Also, remember that the budget presented by the end of Feb in 2013 will be for the year 2014.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Wow I just facepalmed so hard I think I gave myself a concussion.

    Congress presents BILLS to the President for him to sign or veto.

    The PRESIDENT presents a BUDGET to Congress for them to approve or reject.

    Have Civics courses in America fallen so far?
    Well, to be fair, when the budget goes before Congress, both houses can change things. The final resolution has to pass both houses and a joint committee like a normal bill, and goes back to the president for final approval. It's a bit more needlessly complex than that, but Congress has ample opportunity to amend the budget.

  17. #237
    High Overlord ares1023's Avatar
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    Love how people bring Bush up so often still, as if everybody doesn't already know the crap he caused. But funny thing is, Bush got elected twice, just like Obama. So you can say all the bad things you want about Bush, but people voted him in for a second term still, same with Obama. Fact is politicians suck, the political parties suck; they all lie and deceive us, and we just go along playing their games. Don't affiliate with a political party, cause those 2 political parties are what is inhibiting the US from growing in many ways.

  18. #238
    Stood in the Fire Rheckameohs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Thoughts? Secession is illegal, and failed in 1860. This is crap brought to you by malcontent whiners and nothing more.
    The legality of secession is...tricky, to say the least. The easiest way I can explain it is as follows: secession is legal with the consent of the federal government; otherwise, yes, it is illegal. That said, it doesn't apply to Texas, whose state constitution blatantly states that it has the right to secede whenever it damn well feels like it. IIRC, it was a condition put forth by Texas after the Civil War as part of its reintegration into the Union.

    See: Texas vs. White, 1868.

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  19. #239
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahapenes View Post
    No he doesn't. he approves it. Big difference.
    No, he proposes it. Congress appropriates and approves.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-11 at 10:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    The PRESIDENT presents a BUDGET to Congress for them to approve or reject.
    No, Congress can do whatever they want with the President's numbers. They can completely ignore them if they wanted. After the budget is proposed, Congress meets to go over it and each subcommittee appropriates funding for whatever they need. This gets assembled into a resolution Congress then votes on. President doesn't sign or veto a passed resolution, which is then the operating budget.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...budget_process

    The President has a very low amount of authority when it comes to the budget. Therefore whenever someone says "The President increased the debt by X.", that's bullshit. Congress did.
    Last edited by Rukentuts; 2012-11-12 at 04:38 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  20. #240
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