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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Its odd that as written the President should present a budget request to congress (and he does) and then congress should really approve/deny the different aspects of it, instead of the whole thing. Congress should also be able to add stuff to it for laws they are planning to pass and w/e. But I suppose that would be thinking ahead.

    Also, remember that the budget presented by the end of Feb in 2013 will be for the year 2014.
    Congress' job is to make the laws and represent the people.

    The President is the actual head of government. To that end, it's his job, as chief executive, to lay out a budget for the branches of government. He then submits it to "the people" (Congress) for approval.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Congress' job is to make the laws and represent the people.

    The President is the actual head of government. To that end, it's his job, as chief executive, to lay out a budget for the branches of government. He then submits it to "the people" (Congress) for approval.
    Yes, but Congress holds the purse strings. Congress can deny/approve/do whatever the fuck they want with what the President submitted to them.

  3. #243
    I will gladly sign any petition that kicks Texas out of the Union. Hell, I'd donate big bucks if that petition included allowing Mexico to annex them.

  4. #244
    Mechagnome vastx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    The Supreme Court of the US upheld that secession is illegal. It was even previously ruled that, since secession was illegal, that the Confederate government in Texas was an illegitimate government and that Texas never seceded from the union.






    Rebelling against the federal government. There are many reasons that states won't try secede.

    The US wasn't founded on being independent. The Revolutionary War was started based on taxation without representation. If the colonies had been given representation with which to discuss tax rates with, they would have stayed British because we were perfectly fine with being a British colony. The Declaration of Independence is named as such to declare our independence from Britain, not to promote independence itself.
    The Declaration of Independence does carry within it, the spirit of secession. Read it again.

    Remember, the constitution lays out our government and restricts the power it has. The reason the 10th amendment exists is because you can not enumerate all powers and rights given to people or the states. What if they forgot something, lol? Just because a right isn't in the constitution, doesn't mean it's not reserved for the people or states.

  5. #245
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vastx View Post
    The Declaration of Independence does carry within it, the spirit of secession. Read it again.

    Remember, the constitution lays out our government and restricts the power it has. The reason the 10th amendment exists is because you can not enumerate all powers and rights given to people or the states. What if they forgot something, lol? Just because a right isn't in the constitution, doesn't mean it's not reserved for the people or states.
    The SCOTUS said secession was unconstitutional.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White

    In deciding the merits of the bond issue, the court further held that the Constitution did not permit states to unilaterally secede from the United States, and that the ordinances of secession, and all the acts of the legislatures within seceding states intended to give effect to such ordinances, were "absolutely null".[2]
    Last edited by Rukentuts; 2012-11-12 at 04:54 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

  6. #246
    Mechagnome vastx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agoonga View Post
    The Confederacy will never rise again, and if it tries, it will relive the past.
    Slow down bud. No one..rather no large movement is pushing for secession. God forbid our country ever fall to ruin where people would seek secession. But if it occurs in my lifetime and a tyrannical power controls Washington, I would support it. I wouldn't do it easily. It wouldn't be on a whim. But I believe a people have a natural right to determine their destiny.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-12 at 12:57 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    The SCOTUS said secession was unconstitutional.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White
    The struggle for American independence was just as unlawful.

    If a people choose secession, they break all bonds, law included. Natural right trumps.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by vastx View Post
    If a people choose secession, they break all bonds, law included. Natural right trumps.
    Strange. It seems that guns trumped. I may have napped through those parts of my history classes, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    This is frankly, really god damn fucking stupid.
    Potato.

  8. #248
    Mechagnome vastx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    Strange. It seems that guns trumped. I may have napped through those parts of my history classes, though.
    Ugh...that's what I meant. Just because the South failed doesn't make self-determination any less real. Case in point, the birth of the U.S...

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by vastx View Post
    Ugh...that's what I meant. Just because the South failed doesn't make self-determination any less real. Case in point, the birth of the U.S...
    Ahh, I misinterpreted. We agree.

    I could declare my house and the surrounding property sovereign territory. If I had the ability to keep it that way, which I don't.

    Political realism, or something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    This is frankly, really god damn fucking stupid.
    Potato.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by vastx View Post
    The struggle for American independence was just as unlawful.

    If a people choose secession, they break all bonds, law included. Natural right trumps.
    Actually, military would triumph. It's not like we won the Revolutionary War because the Brits were all "Oh, they have their natural rights." It was because we held out long enough and caused enough damage for them to go "Fuck this noise this isn't worth it".

    Quote Originally Posted by vastx View Post
    The Declaration of Independence does carry within it, the spirit of secession. Read it again.

    Remember, the constitution lays out our government and restricts the power it has. The reason the 10th amendment exists is because you can not enumerate all powers and rights given to people or the states. What if they forgot something, lol? Just because a right isn't in the constitution, doesn't mean it's not reserved for the people or states.
    Declaring a secession and explaining why isn't broadcasting and promoting secession.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-12 at 05:58 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Congress' job is to make the laws and represent the people.

    The President is the actual head of government. To that end, it's his job, as chief executive, to lay out a budget for the branches of government. He then submits it to "the people" (Congress) for approval.
    Congress gets a lot of control over the budget. They also need to pass it off after messing with it. You never get to place all the blame on the president unless it's something that goes straight to him without any other branch of government involved. I would say much of the blame for bills and budgets goes to Congress, especially considering that they can overturn a veto.
    Last edited by Bergtau; 2012-11-12 at 05:48 AM.

    Bergtau's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability that somebody will mention Godwin's Law approaches 1.
    Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he DID kill Hitler.
    An accident is something that you did not mean to do at all. A mistake is something that you regret doing.

  11. #251
    There is reason why there are only a few thousand crazies going on about "USA is falling apart".
    Its not real.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoweye View Post
    Smoking pot is illegal too.... yet 2 states just passed laws.. your point is invalid.
    and the federal government (at least the ones in charge of the failed "War on Drugs") is already threatening legal action against the states that legalized it.

  13. #253
    cry more republicans, cry out all your tears. they are delicious.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    Really? I dont think its illegal. States have the right to leave the US. Why wouldnt they? If Texas believes that its better for them to leave then they should. I as a resident of Virginia dont care, and wouldnt care if Virginia decided to leave.



    What grounds the the US military have to attack Texas if it secedes?

    The reason states wont secede has nothing to do with the US military, it has to do with not only a lot of laws that are going to have to change, as well as politicians at the top spots are not going to allow their own state to leave.

    In a country that was founded on becoming independent it would be hypocritical to not let states secede.
    Well if Texas secedes to be its own country the USA has the power to then attack it to acquire it just like any other territory. And the rest of the world would likely watch as its an internal thing.

  15. #255
    I think the civil war already has set the precident that states are not allowed to leave the union

  16. #256
    I am Murloc! SirRobin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampyrr View Post
    Well if Texas secedes to be its own country the USA has the power to then attack it to acquire it just like any other territory. And the rest of the world would likely watch as its an internal thing.
    I don't think we would have to bother. If I recall correctly, Texas had to make deep cuts to education to balance this budget and had to use billions of federal stimulus money to balance the last one. Sounds like smoke and mirrors to me. Now, how will they afford any significant defense spending? The cartels would have a field day if Texas was suddenly on its own.

    This petition is nothing more than some sore losers showing again, why they lost in the first place. The fact that we're hearing secession nonsense from republicans just adds irony to the idiocy considering that they were the ones who kept states from staying seceded last time they tried it. The only ones this is fooling are the ones who want to be fooled.
    Last edited by SirRobin; 2012-11-12 at 06:43 AM.
    Sir Robin, the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot.
    Who had nearly fought the Dragon of Angnor.
    Who had almost stood up to the vicious Chicken of Bristol.
    And who had personally wet himself, at the Battle of Badon Hill.

  17. #257
    Mechagnome vastx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sivick View Post
    I think the civil war already has set the precident that states are not allowed to leave the union
    It just reinforced the notion that separation may require force...like most partitioning of nations throughout history.

    Edit - If a people are successful and become independent, then previous law (questionable SCOTUS ruling) is irrelevant.
    Last edited by vastx; 2012-11-12 at 06:45 AM.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    You missed the memo - Romney didn't win.

    But anyway - given at least 40% of every state voted for Obama and Romney, to say the US needs splitting would mean it needs splitting apart within each state.
    this just in: our current president is worthless.

    but to be perfectly fair; if romney were to be voted president, he would of been just the same on the level of worthlessness.

    OT: a lot of people in texas complain. its nothing new. lets move along.
    Last edited by Shinoashi; 2012-11-12 at 06:50 AM.

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirRobin View Post
    I don't think we would have to bother. If I recall correctly, Texas had to make deep cuts to education to balance this budget and had to use billions of federal stimulus money to balance the last one. Sounds like smoke and mirrors to me. Now, how will they afford any significant defense spending? The cartels would have a field day if Texas was suddenly on its own.

    This petition is nothing more than some sore losers showing again, why they lost in the first place. The fact that we're hearing secession nonsense from republicans just adds irony to the idiocy considering that they were the ones who kept states from staying seceded last time they tried it. The only ones this is fooling are the ones who want to be fooled.
    Would have to say the cartels would actually get punched in the dick if Texas left. They would only go threw Zona/Cali/NM.
    "Oh, wretched ephemeral race, children of chance and misery, why do you compel me to tell you what it would be more expedient for you not to hear? What is best of all is utterly beyond your reach; not to be born, not to be, to be nothing. But the second best for you is --- to die soon." Silenus

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Are you unfamiliar with the Civil War?
    Shhh, they think the Civil War was about slavery.

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