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  1. #441
    Legendary! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirRobin View Post
    Well back to the original post then I guess.

    There are a number of problems with this petition's claims.

    1. The United states does not actually suffer economic difficulties stemming from etc, etc, etc... The U.S. suffers economic difficulties because its political leadership has been suckered time and time again into thinking something will help when it actually does more harm than good. Two examples being outsourcing slash offshoring and the repeal of Glass-Steagall.

    2. Citizens do not suffer blatant abuses. Is the one who wrote this seriously attempting to call the National Defense Authorization Act an abuse of citizen rights? Seriously? The Transportation Security Administration is a blatant abuse of citizen rights? Which right? The right to be killed by terrorists? When I read this part the first thing that popped into my mind was someone not wanting to have to worry about being indefinitely detained when the TSA catches them trying to bring handguns and grenades on to a plane.

    3. Texas fails to actually "maintain a balanced budget." Previously using federal stimulus money, and now gimmicks, to "balance" that budget.

    4. Texas leaving the Union would not secure its citizens' standard of living. If anything it would put them at even greater risk given the withdrawal of all the support provided by federal agencies and programs, like Medicaid, Social Security, etc, etc... Not to mention that federal laws, like antitrust, would naturally not apply to a now foreign nation.

    5. Since the United States Supreme Court is the official interpreter, so to speak, of our founding fathers' ideas and beliefs as passed down to us through the constitution. I don't see how separating themselves from the that body's oversight would in any way actually secure their rights or liberties. If anything it would put their rights and liberties in greater jeopardy.

    Given those points I think its safe to conclude that instead of, "people had enough sh17." The one who wrote that petition is actually full of "sh17."
    I agree with your points 100%, however for the sake of sanity I think we should let Texas go while we are at it allow anyone who agrees with the Right to move to Texas, mean while we will pay all the sane people to move back to the Real America and let Texas fail on it's own.

  2. #442
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  3. #443
    Quote Originally Posted by SirRobin View Post
    [INDENT][LIST=1][*][*]Citizens do not suffer blatant abuses. Is the one who wrote this seriously attempting to call the National Defense Authorization Act an abuse of citizen rights? Seriously?
    "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence" -6th Amendment.

    The NDAA allows a United States Citizen to be detained indefinitely without trial.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirRobin View Post
    The Transportation Security Administration is a blatant abuse of citizen rights? Which right? The right to be killed by terrorists? When I read this part the first thing that popped into my mind was that someone must not want to have to worry about being indefinitely detained when the TSA catches them trying to bring handguns and grenades on to a plane.
    The same TSA that has not caught a single terrorist? Not wanting to be searched every time you travel does not make you guilty.

  4. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Do we have to? Can't we just let them go and tell them to take the rest of the South with them?
    Please don't lump Texas in with the Stupid South. There's a world of difference between Texas and everything east of it.

    First of all, this is a user-created petition on some stupid BS government website. It doesn't represent the majority of Texas voters in any way. Obama got 41% of the vote in Texas.

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by Feardotwin View Post
    Nope, to discuss and reason with all viewpoints is a good thing. But, to shut down or attempt too. A person for certain ideals is wrong.

    I attempt to be the least hippocritical of all. But, people will have their own beliefs and attempt to spin topics into chaos.

    It is childish and nothing new. I welcome new perspectives and also maturity.

    I forget to mention that everything in a way regardless how it is viewed outside/inside this thread or in the USA is effected somehow.
    First, hippocritical is not a word. I believe you meant to type hypocritical.

    Second, you are using it wrong anyway. Hypocrisy has nothing to do with logic.

    Third, you can't claim that logic based on false information yields good results. Logically sound and factual are not the same thing.

    Do you care to put forth any actual argument, or simply continue to call anyone who proves you wrong childish?

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  6. #446
    Immortal SirRobin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerion View Post
    "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence" -6th Amendment.

    The NDAA allows a United States Citizen to be detained indefinitely without trial.
    I don't recall a whole lot of complaining about indefinite detentions with the AUMF. All the NDAA did was "affirm" it. Now I do recall some states calling for changes to it. Like Rhode Island, Utah, etc... However, I don't recall Texas being one of them. Maybe I'm wrong. Got a link showing Texas wants it changed? Maybe you should check with Lamar Smith.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerion View Post
    The same TSA that has not caught a single terrorist? Not wanting to be searched every time you travel does not make you guilty.
    So it would be safer to have no TSA? Oh they are hardly perfect. No arguments there. However, to go back to how it was prior to 9-11 would be inviting another disaster.
    Last edited by SirRobin; 2012-11-13 at 02:56 AM.
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  7. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jshadow View Post
    So with Obama's victory, people had enough sh17, since they're expecting things to go down hill even more.
    US is falling apart.

    Your thoughts?
    Isn't Texas like #3 or #4 on poverty, unemployment and government $$$ need? Their balanced budget claim is insulting, relying on federal government funds. The statement is based on the usual post-election "I'm moving to Canada" crap (I did it in 2004 - talked about it briefly with friends) and has no real basis in reality. And their economy is almost 1/3 or 1/4 based on Federal government institutions (military bases, etc). If they left, and gave back all the Federal Governments property, they'd be begging to return the next day.

    And those petition numbers are absolutely laughable. I could get 10k+ signatures agreeing to move to Mars tomorrow (and is it just me, or doesn't it seem like the petition numbers are pretty low for southern states . . . ).

    The US is fine, and will do even better now that Obama isn't constrained by another election. He can finally pull out all the stops and fix the rest of the problems the GOP (aka Bush) gave this country. We're gonna do great under another four years of Obama.

  8. #448
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    I have an idea, since Puerto Rico is voting for statehood, how about we let Texas secede and make Puerto Rico the new 50th state? That way we don't have to change the flag if PR becomes a state!
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  9. #449
    Why don't they sign a petition to ban the influence of money in politics.

  10. #450
    Immortal SirRobin's Avatar
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    Ugh... This petition's delusional nonsense actually made it.
    Sir Robin, the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot.
    Who had nearly fought the Dragon of Angnor.
    Who had almost stood up to the vicious Chicken of Bristol.
    And who had personally wet himself, at the Battle of Badon Hill.

  11. #451
    In 2011, th epopulation of Texas was 25,674,681

    3071 people signed the petition.

    That is a whopping 0.0001% of the population.

    for comparison, 3,294,440 people in Texas voted for Obama, which was 41% of Presidential Election voters. 1072 times as many as signed that petition.
    Last edited by Butler to Baby Sloths; 2012-11-13 at 03:37 AM.

  12. #452

    Ok

    Quote Originally Posted by Jshadow View Post
    So with Obama's victory, people had enough sh17, since they're expecting things to go down hill even more.
    US is falling apart.

    Your thoughts?
    3771 signatures in Texas is about .0001% of the population in Texas. You lead and the .0001% will be right behind you.

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    And those petition numbers are absolutely laughable. I could get 10k+ signatures agreeing to move to Mars tomorrow (and is it just me, or doesn't it seem like the petition numbers are pretty low for southern states . . . ).
    this was my first thought. "oh look, like 20,000 people don't like obama"... that's not news, it's barely a petition. that's the lunch rush at the local mcdonalds.

  14. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerion View Post
    "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence" -6th Amendment.

    The NDAA allows a United States Citizen to be detained indefinitely without trial.
    It's easier to take the position that requires less thought and discussion. The NDAA was supported by both sides of the table, for a host of legitimate and necessary reasons. If you don't know what those reasons are, you sound silly criticizing it. Feel free to continue doing so, however, because that's where your freedoms come from, from things that require great thought and discussion.

  15. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    ... over a thousand Chicago residents once petitioned to ban dihydrogen monoxide once, so we know petitions represent key intellectuals within the country!
    Is that really true?
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  16. #456
    Immortal SirRobin's Avatar
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    Its over fifty thousand now.

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...nment/BmdWCP8B

    Its funny seeing how many signatures are "not" from Texas.
    Last edited by SirRobin; 2012-11-13 at 03:45 AM.
    Sir Robin, the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot.
    Who had nearly fought the Dragon of Angnor.
    Who had almost stood up to the vicious Chicken of Bristol.
    And who had personally wet himself, at the Battle of Badon Hill.

  17. #457
    Quote Originally Posted by Priestion View Post
    Is that really true?
    Yes. It was an experiment. The website touting the "dangers of dihydrogen monoxide" is still up.

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  18. #458
    Does that mean, if they separate from the union, they'll pay for the wars caused by G.W. Bush,
    who is a Texan?
    It seems that you can create multiple accounts as you like in the Whitehouse petition page and sign it.
    Last edited by Elian; 2012-11-13 at 03:49 AM.

  19. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    It's easier to take the position that requires less thought and discussion. The NDAA was supported by both sides of the table, for a host of legitimate and necessary reasons. If you don't know what those reasons are, you sound silly criticizing it. Feel free to continue doing so, however, because that's where your freedoms come from, from things that require great thought and discussion.
    Just because there are parts of a law that are good and necessary doesn't mean that parts of it are bad. The options aren't NDAA or nothing, they are NDAA or a better written bill. The "both sides of the isle" thing is a joke. There are more than two viewpoints on issues. So yes, I will continue to criticize things that I feel violate the constitution, even if I "sound silly" while doing it.

    The same logic applies to the TSA, you are creating a false dichotomy. The choices aren't TSA or another 9/11. They are TSA or a less incompetent and less intrusive group that will actually stop terrorists while not making people feel violated or risk getting cancer from machines that were highly criticized before being put in, and still have not caught a single person, and now are finally being phased out after TSA agents are getting cancer from them.

  20. #460
    Immortal SirRobin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elian View Post
    Does that mean, if they separate from the union, they'll pay for the wars caused by G.W. Bush,
    who is a Texan?
    It seems that you can create multiple accounts as you like in the Whitehorse petition page and sign it.
    They can't even cover their five billion dollar tab with Medicaid and had to take a billion out of the highway fund to even pretend their budget was "balanced." That's after the cuts they made to education too. The chance of them taking accountability for Junior is an even bigger pipe dream than the claims made in the petition. The saddest part is that this petition can get fifty plus thousand, legitimate or otherwise, signatures and Puerto Rico's hasn't even passed eight grand.
    Sir Robin, the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot.
    Who had nearly fought the Dragon of Angnor.
    Who had almost stood up to the vicious Chicken of Bristol.
    And who had personally wet himself, at the Battle of Badon Hill.

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