I haven't healed by "fistweaving" yet. You don't have to. I prefer not to, and it hasn't affected my performance or my mana.
It's an option, not a requirement.
There's a good amount of mis-information in here I've noticed.
First off, fistweaving in raids should only ever mean using jab to generate chi. Not using blackout kick/tigers palm (almost always a healing loss except for a few special cases). This is because jab is flat out more efficient to generate chi than soothing mist, as well as being faster. Doing this is actually MORE efficient than "standard ranged healing". Significantly more so, in fact. It is also significantly higher throughput since you will generate chi on average 4 times faster than soothing mist. Theres not really any room to argue here, it's just how the math works out.
Can you ranged heal and do fine?
Will you be gimping yourself and the raid comparing to your POTENTIAL throughput from "fistweaving" (jabbing for chi)?
Yes, most definitely.
If you aren't in a heroic or progression guild and your only goal is to have fun w/o maximizing your potential, then heal however you want and that's your own choice. But jab is hands down better than soothing mist at the moment, and not using it is essentially handicapping yourself.
My important binds are:
1-RnM Shift 1-Uplift
2- jab shift 2-soothing
3- tigers palm shift 3-surging mist (sometimes I take it off my bar when I use tigers lust)
4- BK shift 4-EnvM
f- TFT shift f- revival
x- chi burst shift x-dampen harm/diffuse magic
`- healthstone shift `-SCK
I have many more keybinds, but those are the ones I generally use for healing. So using a WASD movement binds is still possible to bind everything as a monk.
Finally, fistweaving does not require "insane" amounts of spirit, I run with 7300 and have very strong throughput and longevity. As well, you should NEVER flask/food spirit, because you get 1 spirit:1 int from flask/food whereas you get 1int:2spi from gems. (I gem int and int/crit and int/spi matching sockets, in most cases.) If you want more spirit, gem more. But frankly I "fistweave" and use 7300 spirit without oom'ing. So it's possible. Anyone saying that 9k+ is required, is doing something wrong.
The amount of spirit you need depends on your play style and personal preference, of course. But stacking full intellect as a healer died a while ago.
Maybe you should try looking at both math and real heroic logs and fights before you start telling someone who uses both that he is wrong.
Based on math, if I'm off the boss for 2s, or targeting anyone else for 2s during the entire BK buff, or if I clip it by 2s, then I am LOSING healing done.
Spirit is actually very weak. 1 spirit = .625mp5. That means over a 6minute fight, one spirit gives 45 mana. That's really not as good as people think it is.
I run with 7300 spirit and don't go OOM because I know how to get the most out of my class' mana regen techniques and the most efficient methods of healing which also happen to be our highest throughput at the moment. The amount of heals you can cast don't matter when I will have already topped the raid with less spells while you're jabbing for chi for another uplift.
And I do believe I said I matched sockets with gems. But if I'm not going oom and I'm always healing whenever someone in the raid needs healing, then theres no reason to get more spirit when I can gain throughput instead. IE: Int > spirit. Especially at a 1:1 ratio. Even at 2:1 it's on the fence slightly in ints favor. Go do the math if you want a "fer realz" answer. And our spells scale a little more than twice as well with spellpower (or that is to say, around 120% better with int) than crit. And mastery is just bad. (though still better than haste.)
Unless you can link logs of yourself using fistweaving and keeping up BK+TP and healing in heroic raids (or normals) with a healing core that is very, very solid and competitive like mine, I will rely on all the math I've seen and all my experience in H MGV and H HoF over your baseless assumptions, because all the math and theory I've done completely disagrees with you.
All my most recent logs are in there (prometheans logs are publicly uploaded to WoL), I'm in there starting sixth of november.
I'll give specific links to logs with kills:
1st boss HoF normal, 2nd boss heroic
3rd boss HoF heroic, 4th heroic:
5th and 6th boss HoF normal:
1/2/3 heroic MGV:
4/5/6 (I'm only in for 5/6, I kept lagging and getting killed by massive attacks when i was 10yds out of animation, was pretty stupid imo):
Those are all my most recent logs. Healing priority changes per fight.
RnM on CD
Expel harm on CD if not chi capped
jab for more chi
Uplift if RnM on >10 targets
Chi burst if raid stacked
chi burst if can hit >6 targets
BK if no expected damage in next 10s~ give or take. (If theres no raid damage being done and I'm goign to be using RnM I don't want to waste chi because that wastes mana, so I would rather get some healing than none. But I do NOT keep SZ up as a priority. It's a chi dump that I expect to do some amount of healing >0, which an uplift or chi burst would do at this point.)
Other than that it's all CD management. Which is completely fight dependent and depends on raid strat.
Edit: My armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...A5ios/advanced
Edit2: Majority of my calculations are done utilizing: http://www.temerityofwindrunner.com/...aver/calc.html
Last edited by Astraios; 2012-11-14 at 09:47 PM.
Well your priority system makes a lot of sense, and seeing your logs and your last post makes your message a lot clearer. (As i side note I don't keep the buffs on a ~100% uptime, same as you, they're just Chi dump during any slow healing phase.)
Do you still stack SZ when Xuen is active?
You're going to need to make some adjustments to that build in a few weeks, Chi Burst is being nerfed into the ground and the cost of all our spells is being increased by 10%, making spirit more of a requirement, and yes, I know we'll have a chance to generate two mana tea based on our crit chance, but that's a pretty low chance and shouldn't be relied upon.
Currently playing Final Fantasy XIV. All melee classes overlap far too much mechanically but are thematically interesting.
My opinions: 5.0 was the golden age of content, the ability prune barely did anything, and 6.2 is actually an enjoyable timesink.
Ultimately this thread isn't about next patch or how I will adjust my healing. This is about MW healing in general in the current meta(patch.) If you want to discuss the next patch PM me, msg me on my server, or make another topic and I'll talk about it.
make sure you have this fun macro for your spinning crane kick:
/cast !Spinning Crane Kick
don't wanna accidentally interrupt the healing ~_~
Then it's just one BoK every 30 seconds to keep SZ up as long as I'm melee'ing Boss. That's not a bad use of Chi IMO. I agree though that based on the fight mechanics if Serpent's Zeal falls off I tend to ignore it for the rest of the encounter in favor of Chi Burst or Uplift. I think one thing you're forgetting in the math is that Serpent's Zeal is free healing. Whether that means anything with the mana changes in 5.1 is another story. Everything else you pointed out is spot on IMO.
A couple of things I've found relating to some of the other posts here.......
1) Crackling Jade Lightning.
I think it's wrong to say this should just be ignored (especially with the upcoming Buff to Chi Generation it's getting). Unless I'm assigned to watch the Tank I think CJL is a better ranged choice than Soothing Mists. Any DPS on the Boss is helpful and it procs Eminence from yourself and your Statue. So it winds up being a nice smart heal for the duration of the Channel.
2) The Guide posted on page one kept saying that only Jab procs Eminence which is misleading. All our non-auto attack damage other than the T30 spells proc Eminence healing. Jab is just the only damage dealing mana consuming ability that procs it. Everything else costs Chi which may be better spent on something else.
3) Fistweaving is not a style IMO. It's not a choice between Fistweaving and being a classic ranged healer. Monks should be doing both based on the encounter mechanics. If a Monk can be in melee range there's really no reason not to be in melee range even if you don't keep up Serpent's Zeal. Being in melee to Jab for faster Chi generation and the healing from Eminence doesn't stop the Monk from doing everything they can do at Range (ReM on CD and using Uplift or Chi Burst/Wave) so why stay at Ranged unless the Boss is doing something nasty up close?
4) Chi Torpedo. For 25 Normals and LFR I prefer Chi Torpedo to Xuen or RJW. It can be a lot of free healing if used right especially paired with Celerity. I'll emphasize that this is for 25 Normals and LFR only.
Last edited by mkultra55; 2012-11-15 at 03:01 PM.
I always open with 2x BK and tend to re-apply them along with Tiger Palm during down time. I'm nowhere near any competitive raiding, so my experience obviously can't be applied to everyone, but healing via eminence and using Chi on BK and TP will often result in a very neutral, if not positive, mana return from Mana Tea and around 10k Spirit, while still healing for quite a bit. Prioritising the buffs above all else might not be a good idea though.
I still don't agree with favouring intellect over spirit. Over a long fight I can only see one winner when it comes to extra mana vs. bonus healing from spell power. Will have to test if for myself though.
Last edited by Algot; 2012-11-15 at 03:21 PM.
In my opinion, the scaling from int and spirit over a longer fight duration is in most cases linear. As a fight goes on your current spirit will continue giving you more mana, and every spell throughout the entire fight benefits from your extra int/throughput, whereas spirit only benefits the last, say, 30-60s. Assuming you're even going OOM. I'm a min-maxer, so if I am not OOM by the end of the fight, or close to it, then I have wasted stats in spirit. Thats why I run with such low spirit, and I've learned to heal with that spirit. There are many attempts where I will be brez'd and even starting with nearly zero mana I can sustain through the end of a fight. Obviously different fights have a different amount of "optimal" spirit and so I tend to run with the highest amount needed. And generally my 7300 spirit keeps my mana up.
Chi Torpedo definitely has its place in raids, even 25 H raids, I trade between it and Xuen depending on fight. (Extra cooldown throughput or just flat throughput gain.)
On a completely unrelated note, crit RNG is very amusing. That awkward moment when you look at your log and your average chi burst crit is 35.4k but your average chi burst hit is like 15k. (not including overhealing.)
With that, for most regular, low/mid-end healers (like myself) Spirit > Intellect. Not solely because of the healers skill to retain mana, but because of the skill of others. Simply it's more forgiving.
Basically all of the high-end healers I have seen has been around 10k spirit, all classes. So I think that's a pretty common baseline atm.
I'm surprised to see many monks completely disregarding the power of eminence and our Serpent Statue. While I don't actively try to keep Serpent's Zeal up for EVERY SINGLE FIGHT, I do find that certain fights that don't require a great deal of movement cater to it. On said fights, eminence tends to be one of my top spells for healing. I'm also surprised to see a lot of people discounting the power of mistweaving. I too, at first, found it less efficient, but on a fight like Will of the Emperor (I suck at dancing), I found myself able to keep people up via Soothing Mist, Renewing Mist, and Uplift, without going OOM or having any issues for that matter.
I would suggest trying out both fist and mistweaving, and see which ones benefit you on different fights (or mixing them together!). I know that I'm still finding my own ways of healing, but after my MV run last night, I found that I was starting to get really comfortable with healing and had a lot of fun! I won't try to pretend like I'm some amazing healer, but I definitely think I'm starting to improve by leaps and bounds after trying multiple healing styles.
Last edited by Celesse; 2012-11-15 at 05:52 PM.
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