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  1. #21
    Mastery is worth a lot more than dodge/parry, but I have zero problems surviving, so I go with Starshatter or whatever.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Regen View Post
    It did like 3-4 years ago
    I'm pretty sure agi never gave any attackpower to str classes.
    Right now it doesn't even give crit anymore (okay it does but at such a low a rate, you might as well ignore it)

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 02:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Mastery is worth a lot more than dodge/parry, but I have zero problems surviving, so I go with Starshatter or whatever.
    Most dks would probably do that, but the question is would you use 476/489 Starshatter over the 502 polearm?
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Proterra View Post
    Time to hunt down the polearm mogs Also hunty "Awesome sig and avatar by the awesome Elyaan". Very cool!
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=70165 would be my first choice, along with the T11 normal set.

  4. #24
    I thought it did at 1/2 the rate strength does? Oh well. That was forever ago.

  5. #25
    Scarab Lord Zka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    I'm pretty sure agi never gave any attackpower to str classes.
    Then you are wrong. Agi used to give 1 AP/agi up until LK or so. The wowwiki page still states this.

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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Zka View Post
    Then you are wrong. Agi used to give 1 AP/agi up until LK or so. The wowwiki page still states this.
    It says warriors gain ranged ap from agi, it says nothing about melee ap.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Proterra View Post
    Riggnaros, Their skilled DK Tank uses the polearm from MSV as his weapon of choice.
    Well, he also uses Glyph of DRW and some may have a different opinion on that (elitistjerks.com). So I guess there's a big controversy...

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    I'm pretty sure agi never gave any attackpower to str classes.
    Right now it doesn't even give crit anymore (okay it does but at such a low a rate, you might as well ignore it)
    Agility definitely used to give 1AP per agility to everyone, even in WOTLK. The change was made during the Cataclysm patch to remove it from strength users. (Rets and warriors were using leather and mail in ICC because of the itemization being vastly superior on the agility items, mind you this was before the armor specializations for wearing all plate etc were introduced)

    "Fell deeds awake! Now for wrath; now for ruin, and the red dawn!"

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Baelroc View Post
    Agility definitely used to give 1AP per agility to everyone, even in WOTLK. The change was made during the Cataclysm patch to remove it from strength users. (Rets and warriors were using leather and mail in ICC because of the itemization being vastly superior on the agility items, mind you this was before the armor specializations for wearing all plate etc were introduced)
    Agility never ever gave strength users AP. Agility-weapons had bonus AP to compensate. But agility never gave warriors/DKs/Paladins AP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Genganger View Post
    Often I just open the fridge instead of turning the lights on in the kitchen. I like that.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Baelroc View Post
    Agility definitely used to give 1AP per agility to everyone, even in WOTLK. The change was made during the Cataclysm patch to remove it from strength users. (Rets and warriors were using leather and mail in ICC because of the itemization being vastly superior on the agility items, mind you this was before the armor specializations for wearing all plate etc were introduced)
    Nope rets and warriors used agi gear because agi items had AP as a stat on them.....

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 03:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Homsel View Post
    Well, he also uses Glyph of DRW and some may have a different opinion on that (elitistjerks.com). So I guess there's a big controversy...
    My guess would be he uses it for the empress since you can easily save up 60rp in p1 and then use the 100% bonus threat for the add spawn in p2..... or maybe he's just trolling.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  11. #31
    Pretty sure agi gave ap, but the reason people went for leather/mail was armor penetration, not ap.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by hunty View Post
    Pretty sure agi gave ap, but the reason people went for leather/mail was armor penetration, not ap.
    It did.

    Also, this weapon thing, it's not so much a "OMG I WANNA BE LYK HIM" it's just genuinely the better weapon for death knight tanking. The increase in mastery (by a fair amount) makes it well worth while.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    or maybe he's just trolling.
    hehehe - that would be quite a big effort for such a cause...

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by hunty View Post
    Pretty sure agility gave ap, but the reason people went for leather/mail was armor penetration, not ap.
    Agility ITEMS gave ap,.... agility itself did not. With the way item stats in wow work this caused agility items to be on about the same level as Str items (1 more stat means higher total stat value) trading some ap (since you gain more ap from str than from pure ap) vs crit (from agi). This is why DKs/Warriors used agi/arp items and paladins used agi/crit items back int wotlk.

    To prevent this from ever happening again they made the following changes before cata:
    Agility users now gain 2 AP/Agility (used to be 1 AP/agility)
    Agility items no longer have AP on them.
    Strength users are encouraged to use plate items

    and for tanks:
    Agility no longer gives armor

    This still didn't prevent tanks from wanting agility items (agility still gave dodge at about the same level as dodge rating making it much more valuable than strength which was less than 0.3 parry rating) which is why they did the following change before Firelands:
    Agility no longer gives dodge to strength users.

    And apparently they also made the following change:
    Strength users only gain an insignificant amount of crit from agility.

    => Right now agility is pretty much a 0 stat for dks which still doesn't mean the polearm is useless because the other stats are worth it (at least if you're comparing it to a lower level strength weapon).

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 04:14 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Homsel View Post
    hehehe - that would be quite a big effort for such a cause...
    Not much of an effort to log out with a suboptimal weapon and a useless glyph equipped since it only takes a few clicks to change it before the next raid starts. (And yes, some high level raiders do that....)
    For all we know he might uses that weapon just to rank high on gear score.
    Last edited by Nillo; 2012-11-13 at 03:15 PM.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  15. #35
    Epic! schwank05's Avatar
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    I would love to have a polearm again I used Black Ice on my DK in Wrath until I got into TOC

  16. #36
    The polearm provides great mastery and stamina. Weapon damage is a plus, but not something to look for with great care.
    The lost strength may not be so important. From DPS point of view, I think Blood Legion has enough good dpsers to not care that much for a couple of K from the tank. If some fight proves to be easy to survive but hard on enrage, they can switch around. From avoidance point of view, if the tank has already a balanced prary-to-doged ratio, he does not the strength generate parry.
    Plus, a plate dps could make better use of Starshater (normal or HC).
    Last edited by DeusX; 2012-11-14 at 10:30 AM.

  17. #37
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    the lost strength isn't a huge deal... you are losing some AP and avoidance (around .8% parry or so on average). also, the AP loss becomes small when vengeance is factored in. with that loss you gain a ton of mastery which can't be found on any STR weapons until you can get your hands on [Shin'ka, Execution of Dominion]... so the polearm is arguably the best surviveability weapon available at this point.

  18. #38
    Our blood DK also noticed a dps increase upgrading LFR starshatter to normal mode polearm, since the weapon damage is higher and the strenght is only a small bit compared to vengeance.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by hunty View Post
    Our blood DK also noticed a dps increase upgrading LFR starshatter to normal mode polearm, since the weapon damage is higher and the strenght is only a small bit compared to vengeance.
    While this may be true I find it hard to believe you notice a dps difference as small as that.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    While this may be true I find it hard to believe you notice a dps difference as small as that.
    He usually aims for top 10 WoL rankings so he keeps an eye on those things. He basically plays below the level he can handle, which is great for our raids.

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