New Dungeon, Fractals of the Mists

[Fencers]

Sorry, I should have put it later in my post. I was referring to you not liking the extra player levels.

That wouldn't be bothersome to me either. ^^

I do not mind gear, power or level escalation/progression.

[Durzlla]

I logged out after clearing the last dungeon with the deathwing og guild wars2, less than a week after release. I never wanted to log back in since. That was so disapointing.

Well.... You do realize he was BUGGED right?

[Durzlla]

Even the fixed version is pretty bad. In lore terms, it's hard to believe these Elder Dragons are any real threat when a single laser on a single airship can basically cut one in half. Zhaitan in general was just a huge flop of an antagonist, in terms of the storytelling and encounters.

I think the only character that made me even bat an eye in any of the story branches was Tybalt. I liked that guy. I woulda stayed on Claw Island to fight with that guy. Everything else - Zhaitain included - was just so uninteresting. =/

To you, I personally think tybalt is a meh character at best and was more then happy to leave him behind so I may escape, but there were other characters I was SIGNIFICANTLY more attached to, Sieran, for example, as well as my loves blue asura side kick who used enough explosives to send anyone to the moon... And well a vast majority of other characters.

And if you payed attention, you'd see that we spent lvs like 70-80 and then some weakening Zhaitan, and the whole zhaitan fight was to inspire hope and be all "Look at how awesome the races are when they wok together!"

Slightly disapointing, but needed, if you though we were gonna stand at zhaitans feet and pick at his toes with our weapons you're a dumb ass though, cause GW2 has some logic in it... Like really big thing can 1 shot you with a mere bitch slap

[Deleted]

Lol and you know that how? By trusting them? The irony.

it was pretty much known that legendary armor was still bound to come. once legendary is here it's over with. just because they didn't add it from launch of for whatever reason doesn't mean they'll give a new type of armor every so so months. they don't want a gear treadmill. and those who go nuggets and think that adding a few more tiers means they'll have to grind their ass off every day to keep up to date (aka gear treadmill) are just dumb.

---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 04:27 PM ----------

once they add new types of armor with improved stats and whatnot AFTER they already implemented legendary armor I'll go nuggets

[Durzlla]

Oh absolutely, it's entirely opinion based.



I suppose you could look at it that way. And maybe Zhaitan is just a huge wimp compared to all the other Elder Dragons. I just remember the frown on my face when I saw Zhaitain fly by (It IS a cool model) and thinking, "Ooh, what cool stuff is he gonna....oh, never mind. Bleh."



Well...as for "standing at their feet and picking at their toes"...I'd refer you to stuff like The Shatterer. Might be silly logically, but encounters don't always make much sense.

I would edit down the quote but am on my phone....

But they did say Zhaitans ENTIRE strength was in his horde of undead, so it really makes sense why his entire fight consisted of us just carving through minions, I mean you could FEEL his desperation, he throws his mouth at you, 3 of his eyes (which are his highest ranks of undead) and then while he's clinging to the tower, no more undead near him to throw at you he rips off his own heads and throw them at you.

I think the fight was done really well and the lore fits well because his entire strength was his horde and we spent 10 lvs completely butchering that strength.

[Kelesti]

it was pretty much known that legendary armor was still bound to come. once legendary is here it's over with. just because they didn't add it from launch of for whatever reason doesn't mean they'll give a new type of armor every so so months. they don't want a gear treadmill. and those who go nuggets and think that adding a few more tiers means they'll have to grind their ass off every day to keep up to date (aka gear treadmill) are just dumb.

once they add new types of armor with improved stats and whatnot AFTER they already implemented legendary armor I'll go nuggets

First, Power Creep is a real thing, whether it takes grinding daily into account, or a slow accumulation (WarCraft's "MEGA DAMAGE!!!!" comes to mind). It doesn't matter if it's 8 different ways to get this new level of gear, and you have a year and a half to do it. Point is, if someone's gone from before this, comes back in 6 months, they need this gear to be able to do some of the content, and they have explicitly fallen behind stats wise, when the game was advertised as never going to do that.

Secondly, you say it's fine because Legendary Armor is going to be implemented into the game. This makes no sense. If they release a new tier after Ascended, going into "Majestic" gear, Legendary Weapons (and now armor) will be bumped up again. So yes, once you have a legendary, it may be over, but for everyone else, the "continued progression initiative" well, continues.

So maybe you can tell me the exact thing that Durzlla has gone out of his way to ignore every time I bring it up:

So what makes it okay to go from Exotic to Ascended, but not okay to go from Ascended to Majestic? You never did answer that one.

What exact functional difference is there?



@Durzlla:

So what makes it okay to go from Exotic to Ascended, but not okay to go from Ascended to Majestic? You never did answer that one.

[Maarius]

First, Power Creep is a real thing, whether it takes grinding daily into account, or a slow accumulation (WarCraft's "MEGA DAMAGE!!!!" comes to mind). It doesn't matter if it's 8 different ways to get this new level of gear, and you have a year and a half to do it. Point is, if someone's gone from before this, comes back in 6 months, they need this gear to be able to do some of the content, and they have explicitly fallen behind stats wise, when the game was advertised as never going to do that.

this isn't true actually

It's known for a year that there will be more levels in expansions. People will fall behind stat-wise either way. People will have to level up and gain new gear anyway. This new tier outside of a new level-up process wasn't planned as they described.

thinking of the level-curve it takes about 1,5 hours per level, even on higher levels. So is this really that bad?

source October 2011

[Durzlla]

@Kel it's ok to go from Exotic to Ascended because they're adding ascended so it can be what exotics were suppose to be, IE they screwed up a little so they're correcting themselves, in addition this allows them to appease the progression crowd via Fractals, where you progress only in difficulty, but are doing the same content over and over. It's also ok because I'm assuming this will be THE LAST gear set they add other then legendary, therefore there is no power creep, there is no treadmill, which means they are not breaking their manifesto.

NO you don't need ascended to be competitive outside of fractals therefore you don't need it to be competitive in the game and you're not missing out if you don't get it, because the content you need it for is where you recieve it so in order to do that content you need to do that same content.

IF they add majestic the gloves are off, majestic would be implying this is not just a "fuck up" and they want a gear treadmill, and want gear progression which causes their manifesto to crumble down around them and makes me go to their Hq and burn it TO THE GROUND!

---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 11:04 AM ----------

this isn't true actually

It's known for a year that there will be more levels in expansions. People will fall behind stat-wise either way. People will have to level up and gain new gear anyway. This new tier outside of a new level-up process wasn't planned as they described.

thinking of the level-curve it takes about 1,5 hours per level, even on higher levels. So is this really that bad?

source October 2011

*cringe* god... I hope we don't get more trait points when the cap increases... Please Anet don't be one of -those- developers... Give us something new from lvs 81-90 or w/e we go to...

[ControlBlue]

Agree with most of what Durzall said, except that you will ascended gears to be competitive outside of the FotM dungeon.
The fact Ascended works in WvW is a fine example.

However it is okay since you will be able to get Ascended gears outside of Fractals.

[Zeek Daniels]

Even the fixed version is pretty bad. In lore terms, it's hard to believe these Elder Dragons are any real threat when a single laser on a single airship can basically cut one in half. Zhaitan in general was just a huge flop of an antagonist, in terms of the storytelling and encounters.

I think the only character that made me even bat an eye in any of the story branches was Tybalt. I liked that guy. I woulda stayed on Claw Island to fight with that guy. Everything else - Zhaitain included - was just so uninteresting. =/

I agree with your views on Tybalt. However i havent done enough in the personal story to know how we created that laser. But if there is an enormous amount of magic being poured into that laser then i can believe it can hurt an elder dragon. Remember we dont know why the dragons were asleep in the first place. Maybe they do it to replenish the vast amount of energy they exert when awakened. If so zhaitan may not truely be dead but just exhausted. I did do the Arah dungeon, but i forget, does he just fall out of the sky and land back in the sea? or does he land on land and we can confirm he is dead?

[Durzlla]

I agree with your views on Tybalt. However i havent done enough in the personal story to know how we created that laser. But if there is an enormous amount of magic being poured into that laser then i can believe it can hurt an elder dragon. Remember we dont know why the dragons were asleep in the first place. Maybe they do it to replenish the vast amount of energy they exert when awakened. If so zhaitan may not truely be dead but just exhausted. I did do the Arah dungeon, but i forget, does he just fall out of the sky and land back in the sea? or does he land on land and we can confirm he is dead?

That laser is a product of a dredge doomsday sound canon device, several mega lasers, charr industrialism, stolen inquest technology , some of the krait orbs power, and ungodly amounts of other magic being poured into it by arcanists of every race, if it DIDN'T cut zhaitan in half I would cry and run away because hes immune to the best of the best we can even hope to throw at him...

Note: theres a DE where you help with the schematics of the canon and if you stand around and listen to some NPCs they talk about how they need all this stuff (a lot of which I dealt with in the priory, but there were things like the krait orb) that I never knew about, so it seems like all the orders are throwing shit into that canon it seems like the sort of thing where the want to make 200% sure that when they hit something with it, that it's not going to recover.

---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 11:26 AM ----------

I agree with your views on Tybalt. However i havent done enough in the personal story to know how we created that laser. But if there is an enormous amount of magic being poured into that laser then i can believe it can hurt an elder dragon. Remember we dont know why the dragons were asleep in the first place. Maybe they do it to replenish the vast amount of energy they exert when awakened. If so zhaitan may not truely be dead but just exhausted. I did do the Arah dungeon, but i forget, does he just fall out of the sky and land back in the sea? or does he land on land and we can confirm he is dead?

He lands in the sea, we can -see- him in the explo but it doesn't mean we didn't just knock him out, seeing as how zhaitan is literally composed of other undead dragons I don't Ben know if we can truly kill Zhaitan...

[Kelesti]

source October 2011

That source was also before they destroyed the Sidekicking system.

[Zeek Daniels]

First, Power Creep is a real thing, whether it takes grinding daily into account, or a slow accumulation (WarCraft's "MEGA DAMAGE!!!!" comes to mind). It doesn't matter if it's 8 different ways to get this new level of gear, and you have a year and a half to do it. Point is, if someone's gone from before this, comes back in 6 months, they need this gear to be able to do some of the content, and they have explicitly fallen behind stats wise, when the game was advertised as never going to do that.

Secondly, you say it's fine because Legendary Armor is going to be implemented into the game. This makes no sense. If they release a new tier after Ascended, going into "Majestic" gear, Legendary Weapons (and now armor) will be bumped up again. So yes, once you have a legendary, it may be over, but for everyone else, the "continued progression initiative" well, continues.

That is not what is going on in GW2 with this new PvE mode. A person who leaves the game for a few months will not be behind in access to content because of the gear. He will be behind in access to the difficulty of the content. So right now lets say once ppl get all the pieces in the new tier they will be able to advance to difficulty M. A new player who just got to 80 can only get to difficulty G without any items equipped from the new tier.

The content is available to both players but just at different difficulties.

Now even further down the line stronger infusions are released and a player thats been knee deep in the content can now reach Difficulty W, while a new player can still only reach difficulty G without any items from the new tier equipped. These guys are still running the same dungeons tho. So a new player doesnt feel like he has to get the gear or stronger infusions for that matter because all he wants to see is the dungeon itself and not a recycling of the dungeon on greater difficulties.

Its kinda like LFR vs Heroic raiding. LFR lets a greater % of the community see more content at a lower difficulty without requiring them to do a long gear grind first. Heroic lets a small portion of the community do content at a higher difficulty not because its required but because they choose to do it.

[The Darkitecht]

Hasn't there been enough information to douse the flames at this point? What exactly are players concerns? I'm pretty sure (as many people have pointed out, perhaps not necessarily in this thread) that Ascended gear is not a recent decision. It probably would have been in with launch if they had the system ironed out the way they wanted. I don't think we'll be seeing an increase in stats beyond Ascended, and it's being released slow enough that it doesn't devalue exotics at all.

So where exactly is our concern at this point?

I personally crafted SIX exotic rings this past week, (along with the rest of the accessories, only pointing out rings because they'll be replaced in Fractals.) for three different gear sets and I'm not all that butt-hurt. I think at this point people are just blowing it out of proportion.

[Remilia]

Hasn't there been enough information to douse the flames at this point? What exactly are players concerns? I'm pretty sure (as many people have pointed out, perhaps not necessarily in this thread) that Ascended gear is not a recent decision. It probably would have been in with launch if they had the system ironed out the way they wanted. I don't think we'll be seeing an increase in stats beyond Ascended, and it's being released slow enough that it doesn't devalue exotics at all.

So where exactly is our concern at this point?

It's really the part where they're going against their word that bothers a lot of people.

[Zeek Daniels]

It's really the part where they're going against their word that bothers a lot of people.

I think its more that alot of ppl cant understand the concept of seperating one gameplay type from another. They think that you cant split progression from non progression, Manditory treadmill from non-manditory treadmill.

Anet has just implemented a non manditory treadmill into their game. Yes the base of the treadmill did add higher stat items when it didnt have to but they decided that an increase was the best course of action for the future. The non-manditory treadmill ends in terms of gear but continues in terms of infusions. This way players who want to stop can stop and those that want to continue can continue to grab more powerful infusions that are only of use in this dungeon.

Anet didnt go back on their word Remilia. The stuck to it and introduced a new type of gameplay into the game that doesnt limit any player of any type base on gear.

[Kickbuttmario]

also i propose to wait and see how easy you can get that gear...if its as easy as exotic then it doenst really matter.

I'm trying to figure out what the big deal is. Is it because legendary will now be higher than both exotic and ascended and ascended is between exotic and legendary? That it ruins their message on gear grind. There is still no gear grind since you can complete everything with the crappiest gear.

Can someone enlighten me?

[The Darkitecht]

Pretty sure companies go back on their word every day. I, actually, can't think of a company that I've done business with that didn't go back on their word. I'm not saying it's right - but I am saying it should be expected.

I'd still say going back on their word is stretching it a bit even, I'll be alongside you guys when they implement another item tier beyond Ascended, but I'm still of firm belief (a fool's trust, maybe.) that this is just fixing some of the itemization issues we've had since launch. Also feel that this will help them load the current dungeons/explorables with rares and exotics from bosses/chests without feeling like they're making the best gear -THAT- easy.

Just my 2cp

[The Darkitecht]

I don't know if they've really said either way, but creating entirely new terminology (Gear Progression Initiative?) suggests something.

yeah, it suggests that there will be a mechanic that's not agony in the next progressive dungeon they make. and you'll have to farm infusions for that place too. It does not mean you'll need new ascended gear, just a new resist.

you don't need ascended gear to do fractals, you need agony resistance. ascended gear is what simply allows you to acquire said resistance, the stat increase was a pointless addition that they wanted to implement for whatever reason - fine, so be it.

We'll probably get a different set of ascended gear that isn't related to infusions so that we can put runes in them when not doing a fractal.

Or they'll replace the rune system altogether with infusions that do more then benefit against agony or whatever new mechanic they come out with

Obviously all assumptions, i'll eat my words in a few months if I'm wrong. It just makes sense to me, though.

[Maarius]

I'm trying to figure out what the big deal is. Is it because legendary will now be higher than both exotic and ascended and ascended is between exotic and legendary?

I don't get it why people don't read the memo...

So fear not, all existing Legendary weapons, which are currently on par with Exotics, will be upgraded to be on par with Ascended weapons at the same time that we add Ascended weapons to the game. Thus Legendaries will remain “best-in-slot” items. All Legendary items going forward will be of Ascended power.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/l...ascended-gear/

Legendaries will never be better than the best tier, they will be equal in stats. The gap Chris was talking about is the time-gap it takes you to get those items.