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  1. #441
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    I agree with your views on Tybalt. However i havent done enough in the personal story to know how we created that laser. But if there is an enormous amount of magic being poured into that laser then i can believe it can hurt an elder dragon. Remember we dont know why the dragons were asleep in the first place. Maybe they do it to replenish the vast amount of energy they exert when awakened. If so zhaitan may not truely be dead but just exhausted. I did do the Arah dungeon, but i forget, does he just fall out of the sky and land back in the sea? or does he land on land and we can confirm he is dead?
    That laser is a product of a dredge doomsday sound canon device, several mega lasers, charr industrialism, stolen inquest technology , some of the krait orbs power, and ungodly amounts of other magic being poured into it by arcanists of every race, if it DIDN'T cut zhaitan in half I would cry and run away because hes immune to the best of the best we can even hope to throw at him...

    Note: theres a DE where you help with the schematics of the canon and if you stand around and listen to some NPCs they talk about how they need all this stuff (a lot of which I dealt with in the priory, but there were things like the krait orb) that I never knew about, so it seems like all the orders are throwing shit into that canon it seems like the sort of thing where the want to make 200% sure that when they hit something with it, that it's not going to recover.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 11:26 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    I agree with your views on Tybalt. However i havent done enough in the personal story to know how we created that laser. But if there is an enormous amount of magic being poured into that laser then i can believe it can hurt an elder dragon. Remember we dont know why the dragons were asleep in the first place. Maybe they do it to replenish the vast amount of energy they exert when awakened. If so zhaitan may not truely be dead but just exhausted. I did do the Arah dungeon, but i forget, does he just fall out of the sky and land back in the sea? or does he land on land and we can confirm he is dead?
    He lands in the sea, we can -see- him in the explo but it doesn't mean we didn't just knock him out, seeing as how zhaitan is literally composed of other undead dragons I don't Ben know if we can truly kill Zhaitan...
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  2. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by Maarius View Post
    That source was also before they destroyed the Sidekicking system.
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  3. #443
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    First, Power Creep is a real thing, whether it takes grinding daily into account, or a slow accumulation (WarCraft's "MEGA DAMAGE!!!!" comes to mind). It doesn't matter if it's 8 different ways to get this new level of gear, and you have a year and a half to do it. Point is, if someone's gone from before this, comes back in 6 months, they need this gear to be able to do some of the content, and they have explicitly fallen behind stats wise, when the game was advertised as never going to do that.

    Secondly, you say it's fine because Legendary Armor is going to be implemented into the game. This makes no sense. If they release a new tier after Ascended, going into "Majestic" gear, Legendary Weapons (and now armor) will be bumped up again. So yes, once you have a legendary, it may be over, but for everyone else, the "continued progression initiative" well, continues.
    That is not what is going on in GW2 with this new PvE mode. A person who leaves the game for a few months will not be behind in access to content because of the gear. He will be behind in access to the difficulty of the content. So right now lets say once ppl get all the pieces in the new tier they will be able to advance to difficulty M. A new player who just got to 80 can only get to difficulty G without any items equipped from the new tier.

    The content is available to both players but just at different difficulties.

    Now even further down the line stronger infusions are released and a player thats been knee deep in the content can now reach Difficulty W, while a new player can still only reach difficulty G without any items from the new tier equipped. These guys are still running the same dungeons tho. So a new player doesnt feel like he has to get the gear or stronger infusions for that matter because all he wants to see is the dungeon itself and not a recycling of the dungeon on greater difficulties.

    Its kinda like LFR vs Heroic raiding. LFR lets a greater % of the community see more content at a lower difficulty without requiring them to do a long gear grind first. Heroic lets a small portion of the community do content at a higher difficulty not because its required but because they choose to do it.

  4. #444
    Hasn't there been enough information to douse the flames at this point? What exactly are players concerns? I'm pretty sure (as many people have pointed out, perhaps not necessarily in this thread) that Ascended gear is not a recent decision. It probably would have been in with launch if they had the system ironed out the way they wanted. I don't think we'll be seeing an increase in stats beyond Ascended, and it's being released slow enough that it doesn't devalue exotics at all.

    So where exactly is our concern at this point?

    I personally crafted SIX exotic rings this past week, (along with the rest of the accessories, only pointing out rings because they'll be replaced in Fractals.) for three different gear sets and I'm not all that butt-hurt. I think at this point people are just blowing it out of proportion.
    Last edited by The Darkitecht; 2012-11-15 at 05:53 PM.

  5. #445
    Moderator Remilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darkitecht View Post
    Hasn't there been enough information to douse the flames at this point? What exactly are players concerns? I'm pretty sure (as many people have pointed out, perhaps not necessarily in this thread) that Ascended gear is not a recent decision. It probably would have been in with launch if they had the system ironed out the way they wanted. I don't think we'll be seeing an increase in stats beyond Ascended, and it's being released slow enough that it doesn't devalue exotics at all.

    So where exactly is our concern at this point?
    It's really the part where they're going against their word that bothers a lot of people.

  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by Remilia View Post
    It's really the part where they're going against their word that bothers a lot of people.
    I think its more that alot of ppl cant understand the concept of seperating one gameplay type from another. They think that you cant split progression from non progression, Manditory treadmill from non-manditory treadmill.

    Anet has just implemented a non manditory treadmill into their game. Yes the base of the treadmill did add higher stat items when it didnt have to but they decided that an increase was the best course of action for the future. The non-manditory treadmill ends in terms of gear but continues in terms of infusions. This way players who want to stop can stop and those that want to continue can continue to grab more powerful infusions that are only of use in this dungeon.

    Anet didnt go back on their word Remilia. The stuck to it and introduced a new type of gameplay into the game that doesnt limit any player of any type base on gear.

  7. #447
    The Lightbringer Kickbuttmario's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antonatsis View Post
    also i propose to wait and see how easy you can get that gear...if its as easy as exotic then it doenst really matter.
    I'm trying to figure out what the big deal is. Is it because legendary will now be higher than both exotic and ascended and ascended is between exotic and legendary? That it ruins their message on gear grind. There is still no gear grind since you can complete everything with the crappiest gear.

    Can someone enlighten me?
    I am KickButtMario. I kick butt because I am Mario. The coolest, longest, living, protagonist out there in the video game industry.

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  8. #448
    Pretty sure companies go back on their word every day. I, actually, can't think of a company that I've done business with that didn't go back on their word. I'm not saying it's right - but I am saying it should be expected.

    I'd still say going back on their word is stretching it a bit even, I'll be alongside you guys when they implement another item tier beyond Ascended, but I'm still of firm belief (a fool's trust, maybe.) that this is just fixing some of the itemization issues we've had since launch. Also feel that this will help them load the current dungeons/explorables with rares and exotics from bosses/chests without feeling like they're making the best gear -THAT- easy.

    Just my 2cp

  9. #449
    They think that you cant split progression from non progression, Manditory treadmill from non-manditory treadmill.
    Well, we can't have it both ways. People on this very board - some of them now defending this change - made a big production of how mandatory raiding was in games like WoW. Even if you weren't a hardcore raider, that gear just had to be chased, that content just had to be done, and even if you somehow managed to break that iron grip, there was still the argument that raid development "took away from other things".

    That was the argument before. Any dissention brought cries of, "Go back to WoW!"

    Now we've come to this, where GW2 is releasing a new dungeon and a new set of upgraded gear with a special type of stat needed to do the new content. This, however, gets a pass as being optional or non-mandatory, even though it fulfills all the criteria of all the complaints people had about WoW, which were all the reasons that people claimed they were flocking here to GW2.

    Or to put it another way, Firelands was every bit as optional as Fractals is.

    It's really all beside the point anyway, it's not the magnitude of the change, or how far it goes, it's just the departure from the principle that concerns people. Will this just be a one-time thing for this one dungeon? I don't know if they've really said either way, but creating entirely new terminology (Gear Progression Initiative?) suggests something.

  10. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    I don't know if they've really said either way, but creating entirely new terminology (Gear Progression Initiative?) suggests something.
    yeah, it suggests that there will be a mechanic that's not agony in the next progressive dungeon they make. and you'll have to farm infusions for that place too. It does not mean you'll need new ascended gear, just a new resist.

    you don't need ascended gear to do fractals, you need agony resistance. ascended gear is what simply allows you to acquire said resistance, the stat increase was a pointless addition that they wanted to implement for whatever reason - fine, so be it.

    We'll probably get a different set of ascended gear that isn't related to infusions so that we can put runes in them when not doing a fractal.

    Or they'll replace the rune system altogether with infusions that do more then benefit against agony or whatever new mechanic they come out with

    Obviously all assumptions, i'll eat my words in a few months if I'm wrong. It just makes sense to me, though.

  11. #451
    Warchief Maarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kickbuttmario View Post
    I'm trying to figure out what the big deal is. Is it because legendary will now be higher than both exotic and ascended and ascended is between exotic and legendary?
    I don't get it why people don't read the memo...

    So fear not, all existing Legendary weapons, which are currently on par with Exotics, will be upgraded to be on par with Ascended weapons at the same time that we add Ascended weapons to the game. Thus Legendaries will remain “best-in-slot” items. All Legendary items going forward will be of Ascended power.
    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/l...ascended-gear/

    Legendaries will never be better than the best tier, they will be equal in stats. The gap Chris was talking about is the time-gap it takes you to get those items.
    Last edited by Maarius; 2012-11-15 at 06:25 PM.

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post

    Now we've come to this, where GW2 is releasing a new dungeon and a new set of upgraded gear with a special type of stat needed to do the new content. This, however, gets a pass as being optional or non-mandatory, even though it fulfills all the criteria of all the complaints people had about WoW, which were all the reasons that people claimed they were flocking here to GW2.

    Or to put it another way, Firelands was every bit as optional as Fractals is.
    And this is where you are wrong Bov. The bolded parts are correct. Anet is releasing a new dungeon. Anet is releasing a new set of upgraded gear. But the next part is where you are wrong. Anet is not requireing that you have that stat to do the new content. The content is doable without the required stat. The content has a higher difficulty which the stat is needed. This is the difference between WoW's Raiding system which limits players who dont have the gear from doing any part of the raid, and GW2 which still allows those who dont have this special stat to do the dungeon.

    In order for WoW to do the same they would need to get rid of the gear requirement for LFR and then the concept would be the same. Raids would then become accessible to all players while Normal and Heroic versions would become Optional content for those that want to keep progressing their gear. As it stands right now LFR is not tuned for a level 90 in full greens but for a level 90 in full blues, i say this because there is a ilvl requirement to even gain access to the LFR queue.

    So again FotM will allow all players to experience the content. Those who wish to do harder versions of the dungeon will have the opportunity to do so by upgrading their gear with this special stat. This special stat however does not affect players outside the confines of the dungeon. And those players not doing the FotM dungeon wont feel "left behind"

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    snip
    I agree for the most part. "Feeling left behind, or forced to progress" is all in the mentality of the individual. Most players aren't going to feel like they have to rush to get ascended armor because..

    1) Most players don't even rush to get exotic gear, anyone who WvW's a lot (and has been since they were low level) doesn't give a rats ass because they are doing plenty fine without gear. It's not that much of a difference. Guild Wars 2 reminds me a lot of LoL or SC2. When I die, I know it's my fault for playing poorly - not because the guy has massively better gear then me. Maybe that's because I never put myself in a position where the enemy severely can have an upper hand on me.

    2) There just isn't enough gear being released at once to stress an individual out and make them feel like there's so much to farm. A new tier on another game includes..

    New dungeon gear. (5 Man, casual style.)
    Various levels of raid gear that are exactly the same just different in item level.
    New daily's to farm or reputation to grind.
    New crafting recipes to obtain and crafting gear to grind.


    And this happens every six months.

    3) The amount of players that are hard-core min/max players WITHOUT some sort of damage meter to track their increase, and WITHOUT clear formula on the way things work....... Let's just say there are very, very little players who are going to say...

    "8% increase on THREE slots? holy crap, it'll make me do 840.21 more DPS and I must obtain them because when I reach 80% crit damage, power becomes more valuable then crit damage damage so that means that I can swap my chest out for a chest with power instead of precision and I can....." yeah, been there and done that on other games, just doesn't happen in this one.



    This is three items, one of them obtainable in the mystic forge - and I'd be willing to bet that anyone who seeks them will have them by the time (or before) they actually need them.

    'til then, progress through the Fractals by knowing how to play and actually spending time to put together a solid build, it's far greater then getting gear. (Opinion:: People that bitch about current dungeons being a wipefest as the reason they hate them, probably should take this advice because they are actually completely trivial and enjoyable if you are half decent.)
    Last edited by The Darkitecht; 2012-11-15 at 06:58 PM. Reason: tipos! ^^

  14. #454
    Honestly, I just feel overwhelmed with the amount of things to address in those two posts. I feel like I've said it all before, though. There's still just so many things where you're still damning other games for the same things you're giving GW2 a pass on.

  15. #455
    I personally am not damning other games, I'm saying that the complaints about a treadmill are severely unjustified at this point. When we see further progression, I'll throw down some complaints myself because at that point it will certainly be everything I didn't want in guild wars. However, it is completely obvious that this has been in the works since beta and was evidently intended all along.

    I simply made a comparison, and it's of my opinion that 3 pieces of non-mandatory gear doesn't constitute as a grind. You can argue by principle, and that's fine - that doesn't change reality though. The reality is that you'll be done experiencing the content long before you even see an Ascended piece, and as such - the loot is not mandatory. This is not the same philosophy followed by other games.

    Edit: I do really wish that they'd told us in advance that this was their intent. I do not agree with the way they went about this at all, for the record. However, the essence of it all should be alright so long as this is as far as they take it.
    Last edited by The Darkitecht; 2012-11-15 at 07:27 PM. Reason: Edit

  16. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Honestly, I just feel overwhelmed with the amount of things to address in those two posts. I feel like I've said it all before, though. There's still just so many things where you're still damning other games for the same things you're giving GW2 a pass on.
    And i feel like i have said this plenty of times. Reasonable individuals will give GW2 a pass because we are still able to do 100% of the content. We however will not give that pass in games where we can only do 90% or 95% of the content. Yea raids are a small part of some games, but that part is gated based on your gear. GW2 has managed to still give you that part without the gate. And thats why it gets a pass.

  17. #457
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Now we've come to this, where GW2 is releasing a new dungeon and a new set of upgraded gear with a special type of stat needed to do the new content. This, however, gets a pass as being optional or non-mandatory, even though it fulfills all the criteria of all the complaints people had about WoW, which were all the reasons that people claimed they were flocking here to GW2.

    Or to put it another way, Firelands was every bit as optional as Fractals is.
    The difference, what makes it a treadmill, is that to do Firelands you needed Bastion gear (for example), to do Dragon Soul, you needed Firelands. You couldn't just jump in to Firelands or Dragon Soul at 85. You have to get better gear in order to run content to get better gear to run content to get...

    Yeah, they added alternate methods by which you could get last seasons gear in order to start working on the current raid, but as an example when I returned after missing a year, I was too low ilvl to run raid finder, so in order to see Dragon Soul Easy Mode, I'd have to farm other stuff to get the gear.

    I'm not sure why they're making Ascended gear more powerful than the other, it'd be simple enough to just make the Agony mechanic versus Infusions (which would slot in normal upgrade slots) without needing a power up. But you don't need Ascended gear to even get into Fractal, and hopefully that trend will maintain with any new stuff released that uses Agony.

  18. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    Anet didnt go back on their word Remilia. The stuck to it and introduced a new type of gameplay into the game that doesnt limit any player of any type base on gear.
    That's not true, they did by introducing a new tier and forcing people to replace gear they thought they would never have to touch again.

    Also, you can bet your sweet poonanie that it won't be easy to get Ascended gears, they are pretty much trying to rectify the ease through which you can get top-levels gears. You will be able to get Exotics as easy as you ever did, but then to get to Ascended gears you will have to work for it, and then if you want Legendaries... you better get ready to farm stuffs, lots of stuffs...

  19. #459
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by ControlBlue View Post
    Also, you can bet your sweet poonanie that it won't be easy to get Ascended gears, they are pretty much trying to rectify the ease through which you can get top-levels gears. You will be able to get Exotics as easy as you ever did, but then to get to Ascended gears you will have to work for it, and then if you want Legendaries... you better get ready to farm stuffs, lots of stuffs...
    Correct, the new post by Ramon Domke on the German GW2 forums confirms this: Ascended gear is designed to be between exotic and legendary gear in terms of the time needed to acquire it.

  20. #460
    The Patient
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    According to GW2hub, each Fractal run awards 5 Fractal Relics, 1350 are needed to buy an accessory.
    Grinding is so much fun!

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