New Dungeon, Fractals of the Mists

[Karizee]

Gear infusion in GW1 didn't modify or improve your stats. All it did was protect you versus a certain ability against an enemy type. Without being infused you could be one or two shot versus that enemy.

If that is all this is in GW2 with the ascended armor, a form of gating I suppose, then fine. I'm ok with that. But if this the start of improved stats on armor being introduced with patches, like a tier system, well then that is a gear treadmill. They specifically stated they wouldn't be doing that. If they do then like Fencers said, they are being hypocrites.

If it's something along the lines of Potion of _____ Slaying, to be used specifically for this dungeon then I don't have an issue with it.

I'm much more excited for the special boss fight along the lines of Tequatl the Sunless or Shatterer. That sounds pretty dam epic!

[Corros]

And it's an interesting concept too. fractals of the mists is a way to virtually unlimited expansion possibilities, as everything can be somehow in the mists. one fractal can be frost themed, another one could actually be IN Lions Arch and so on.

[Ravenblade]

I want accurate informations first before giving it a scathing verdict.

I am very sure they know where the community stands on this issue so I doubt they will be blindly throwing their ideals out of the window for a few treadmill-happy players. It would have long-lasting consequences on the whole game.

I personally find the classical treadmill to be an aging concept and mostly because it is based on a simple concept: Content increases in difficulty and outdates previous content, your current gear powerful enough to beat the previously strongest content is now outdated and you will now have to attain the next level of gear to beat the new strongest content...until the next scaled-up upgrade. It's not exactly a revolutionary concept and a magical formula which keeps players playing. Much like in real life running on a treadmill can exhaust you faster than running through the countryside. I don't see why it is needed there are many other concepts to pursue and thus I hope that ANet is also aware of this.

Now this new infinite dungeon thing basically sounds like a self-scaling mini-raid and maybe that's what your gear is for and where it really gets to shine while being only at slightly increased scale in normal PVE.

PS: wrote this when post #15 was the last one.

[Widow Maker]

http://www.buffed.de/Guild-Wars-2-PC...ssion-1034934/

"Dies ist eine Abkehr vom Prinzip, dass eine Verbesserung derGegenstände im Spiel nicht vorkommen sollte – eigentlich sollte das Ende derWerte-Fahnenstange mit den exotischen oder den gleichwertigen aber vielhübscheren legendären Waffen erreicht sein. Arenanet begründet diesesKurswechsel mit dem Feedback der Fans und Spieler. Die Aufwertung der eigenen Ausrüstung sei für viele eine große Motivation."

English Translation
"This is a departure from the principle, that an improvementof items should not be in the game rather the exotics (and the more beautiful butequal legendaries) should be the end of the value-flagpole. Arenanet reasonedthis change of course with the feedback from fans and players. The appreciation of equip is a big motivation for many"

I found this on the GW2 forums, if anyone can confirm it's what it says. Well then...that's that.

[Zeek Daniels]

Gear infusion in GW1 didn't modify or improve your stats. All it did was protect you versus a certain ability against an enemy type. Without being infused you could be one or two shot versus that enemy.

If that is all this is in GW2 with the ascended armor, a form of gating I suppose, then fine. I'm ok with that. But if this the start of improved stats on armor being introduced with patches, like a tier system, well then that is a gear treadmill. They specifically stated they wouldn't be doing that. If they do then like Fencers said, they are being hypocrites.

I think you all need to ask yourself since i assume you have all played gear treadmill games.

Do you need to improve your gear in games like Rift/WoW/Swtor in order to progress into new areas AkA raids/dungeons?

Do you need to improve your gear in GW2 in order to progress through Explorable modes or high level zones?

The answer to the first question is Yes

The answer to the second question is No

A group of fresh 85's in WoW could not defeat a boss in DS it is impossible. The stats you have are too low to survive the encounters.

A group of Fresh 80's in all Green 80 gear in GW2 can complete explorable mode dungeons, Maybe not all paths but they are doable.

If GW2 lets you add more stats or put in more slots it seems like its specifically intended so you can progress through this one dungeon. If all dungeons were doable b4 Lost Shores then improving the gear isnt ment for that.

Think about it. A infinate dungeon that gets progressively harder. More dmg and more health on Enemies. Do you know what that means? It means that eventually your going to surpass numbers that your current gear cant beat. You need that gear that only drops in this dungeon by the sound of it. So ppl that want a tougher challenge will get it and will get rewarded for it if they can complete it. And a part of that reward is being able to progress even further.

If anet didnt put in the ascendance gear then you would hit a wall. Its inevitable, its an infinite dungeon with infinite difficulty scaling. Put 2 and 2 togeather. Your going to hit that wall and your going to need somthing to help you get over it.

In the end its the dungeons fault for being infinite. If it had a scale cap you wouldnt need the new gear to complete it and it wouldnt have the replay ability.


I dont see anything wrong with this new dungeon or the gear that comes with it. You dont have to do it to progress your character.

[Corros]

Your translation is correct on the content of the german quote (german here)

But: be careful here. this is no citation of something stated like this by an Anet employee. Don't take it at face value as it is essentially the same info as in the english article. It#s too vague and we have to wait for more information

[Arrowstorm]

*Snips and Snails*

Woah, sense in a comment, someone document it, before it's proven to be a fatamorgana.

[Avuun]

If it acts as how it did in the original GW, i.e reducing damage from a certain spell and will only work in this dungeon,then I wont have too much of a problem with it. Just that the articles have been worded poorly.

If it's not well I'm gonna be flipping my table so to speak If tiered gear comes into play then well I'll slowly just drop off from the game as it's hypocritical to what they've said in their manifesto and all other articles.

[Durzlla]

I think you all need to ask yourself since i assume you have all played gear treadmill games.

Do you need to improve your gear in games like Rift/WoW/Swtor in order to progress into new areas AkA raids/dungeons?

Do you need to improve your gear in GW2 in order to progress through Explorable modes or high level zones?

The answer to the first question is Yes

The answer to the second question is No

A group of fresh 85's in WoW could not defeat a boss in DS it is impossible. The stats you have are too low to survive the encounters.

A group of Fresh 80's in all Green 80 gear in GW2 can complete explorable mode dungeons, Maybe not all paths but they are doable.

If GW2 lets you add more stats or put in more slots it seems like its specifically intended so you can progress through this one dungeon. If all dungeons were doable b4 Lost Shores then improving the gear isnt ment for that.

Think about it. A infinate dungeon that gets progressively harder. More dmg and more health on Enemies. Do you know what that means? It means that eventually your going to surpass numbers that your current gear cant beat. You need that gear that only drops in this dungeon by the sound of it. So ppl that want a tougher challenge will get it and will get rewarded for it if they can complete it. And a part of that reward is being able to progress even further.

If anet didnt put in the ascendance gear then you would hit a wall. Its inevitable, its an infinite dungeon with infinite difficulty scaling. Put 2 and 2 togeather. Your going to hit that wall and your going to need somthing to help you get over it.

In the end its the dungeons fault for being infinite. If it had a scale cap you wouldnt need the new gear to complete it and it wouldnt have the replay ability.


I dont see anything wrong with this new dungeon or the gear that comes with it. You dont have to do it to progress your character.

As long as the stat increases are only for that instance (or are scaled away anywhere else) then by all means do it!! It'll sate the gear treadmill players giving them their carrot and their treadmill, and I'd imagine the armor would look pretty BA...

[Ravenblade]

http://www.buffed.de/Guild-Wars-2-PC...ssion-1034934/

"Dies ist eine Abkehr vom Prinzip, dass eine Verbesserung derGegenstände im Spiel nicht vorkommen sollte – eigentlich sollte das Ende derWerte-Fahnenstange mit den exotischen oder den gleichwertigen aber vielhübscheren legendären Waffen erreicht sein. Arenanet begründet diesesKurswechsel mit dem Feedback der Fans und Spieler. Die Aufwertung der eigenen Ausrüstung sei für viele eine große Motivation."

English Translation
"This is a departure from the principle, that an improvementof items should not be in the game rather the exotics (and the more beautiful butequal legendaries) should be the end of the value-flagpole. Arenanet reasonedthis change of course with the feedback from fans and players. The appreciation of equip is a big motivation for many"

I found this on the GW2 forums, if anyone can confirm it's what it says. Well then...that's that.

It is fairly accurate. Although more accurate it would read:

"If you are going deeper into the dungeon and master the harder challenges then your possible reward increases. For that purpose Arenanet now introduces a new item level. The "Ascended" weapons are ranking one category higher than the current top of the attribute-iceberg - the exotic items. This is a departure from the principle of that an improvement of items in the game should not happen rather should the end of the line be reached at the exotic or equal yet more beautiful legendary weapons. Arenanet explains this change of policy with the feedback from fans and players. The improvement of your own equipment is a great motivation [*to play] for many. Even more motivating should be that the ascended weapons will get an infusion slot. [....]"

As long as the stat increases are only for that instance (or are scaled away anywhere else) then by all means do it!! It'll sate the gear treadmill players giving them their carrot and their treadmill, and I'd imagine the armor would look pretty BA...

Actually that's how I understood it as well. Hence why I am not all that hysterical about the change yet.

I am more curious about how their challenges are looking like.

[Widow Maker]

It is fairly accurate. Although more accurate it would read:

"If you are going deeper into the dungeon and master the harder challenges then your possible reward increases. For that purpose Arenanet now introduces a new item level. The "Ascended" weapons are ranking one category higher than the current top of the attribute-iceberg - the exotic items. This is a departure from the principle of that an improvement of items in the game should not happen rather should the end of the line be reached at the exotic or equal yet more beautiful legendary weapons. Arenanet explains this change of policy with the feedback from fans and players. The improvement of your own equipment is a great motivation [*to play] for many. Even more motivating should be that the ascended weapons will get an infusion slot. [....]"

So then that settles it, it's not just for this specific dungeon. It's an overall gear increase. Or in other words, the start of a treadmill.

[Durzlla]

So then that settles it, it's not just for this specific dungeon. It's an overall gear increase. Or in other words, the start of a treadmill.

Lol it doesn't say that though....

[Ravenblade]

So then that settles it, it's not just for this specific dungeon. It's an overall gear increase. Or in other words, the start of a treadmill.

Actually it is for that specific dungeon! (For now.) The main paragraph was about the Fractals of the Mist dungeon and how it is structured and the second sub-paragraph about the new items - which I partially translated (left out last sentence) - and "the dungeon" was referring to it. It could be that if it works out this dungeon might be a role model for more, some raid substitute.

[Eiserne Drossel]

I'm against this Ascended armour, I don't want it at all.

Exotic armour worked fine, the cosmetic grind was fine, it was why I bought Guild Wars 2, because there were no gear treadmill, you were placed in a line with everyone else, and could only take a step forward if you had skills, that's how you proved yourself worthy as a skilled player, compared to others, to have the same thing as everyone else, but you had that extra skill that made you stand out.

I don't need a gear grind.

[Widow Maker]

Lol it doesn't say that though....

Okay then, what does it say?

Actually it is for that specific dungeon! (For now.) The main paragraph was about the Fractals of the Mist dungeon and how it is structured and the second sub-paragraph about the new items - which I partially translated (left out last sentence) - and "the dungeon" was referring to it. It could be that if it works out this dungeon might be a role model for more, some raid substitute.

Ohhh I see. Wow, that is a hell of an idea if that's the way they are doing it. Very innovative. Appealing to the hardcore/gear grinding crowd as well as keeping the others satisfied. Win win.

If that's the way it is, I gotta hand it to Anet for finding a balance.

[Newbryn]

Well they call it an "infusion slot" which was used in Guild Wars 1. They also follow it up by saying the infusion slot will be useful in later additions of the dungeon.

The infusion slot could be somewhat similar to a gating method for this dungeon. Aion, Rappelz [iirc] and Cabal all had such a system in spiral dungeons. It could be that infused slot just the same as GW1 in that it reduces the damaging effects of spectral agony [or a similar mechanic] or some other debuff in the new dungeon such as the Kunaxi in The Deep.

I am not sure how any of this will work. But it is disheartening if the infusion slot becomes progressive gear upgrading. Quite hypocritical of Anet.

I didn't finish reading the article and when I saw about new item level I was thinking the same thing.

[Zeek Daniels]

Ok so im seeing alot of posts about geartreadmill and "omg tier gear" "sky is falling im leaving" posts and i just want to show you the gear tier already in place at level 80. Going to focus on Armorsmith crafting of Berserkers Barbaric Boots of 3 different tiers, Blue being the lowest and orange being the highest.

Blue - 125 defense, +23 Power, + 16 Precision + 1% crit dmg
That was a level 75 btw, next tw are level 80. Lets look at the difference in stats.
Green - 149 defense, +27 power, +20 Precision, +1% crit dmg
Level 80 item biggest increase was in defense, added 4 more power and 4 more precision, Thats 1 tier higher than the item b4 and not much of a stat increase. Lets look at the exotic version.
Orange - 182 defense, +34 Power, + 24 Precision, +2% crit dmg.
Again defense has biggest jump while power goes up more than it did the first time, precision still only increases by 4 while crit dmg go up 1%.

These are the Tiers already in place in GW2, Stats barely go up and there isnt much changes. Whats more important is having gear that can synce with your traits and not the stats by themselves.

Now lets look at that Orange set again and how it fits into what was said about the ascendance armor. Slighty above exotics. So what does that mean? Well if mob damage is going to increase we can expect the defense to increase like it has been so prolly add another 40ish to that 182. Power showed an increase in the last Tier that was greater than the previous so can prolly add another 10 maybe. Precision has stayed at +4 so add 4 to that. And crit dmg will prolly stay the same or go up another %.

All in all the increases are still not much and are only their to provide help with the infinite dungeon difficulty at later levels. Also it said these pieces were rare so i dont expect them to by dropping all that often. Only those who really love the infinite dungeon system are going to be getting that armor.

No more tier gear sky is falling posts pls you are all overreacting.

[Ravenblade]

Okay then, what does it say?

It does not say it's a start of gear treadmill only that it is a departure from the pure cosmetic principle and that this is related to this specific dungeon.

It does not say more about whether there will be more of this and whether there will be some sort of gear race (aka new ascended items obsoleting older ascended items) where the top item quality is subject to inflation and value degradation over time.

I guess for more specifics we will have to wait for ANet's official statement on this.

[Labskaus]

Oh boy... here says my "PvE-Career" bye-bye.

You don't really believe, that all the *peep* who want that Gear-Progression (for feeling sooooooo muuuuuuuch stronger) will play with someone in the normal Dungeon who hasn't that Equip? So to play random (with smaller Guilds sometimes necessary) will be a pain in the ass and i don't have time or nervs to do that.

And i don't need to wait to see this happen. It will happen, because that Gear will make the other Dungeons easier (and if you're only a minute faster...) and that new Gear mandatory. You will need that Gear... and i don't want to be forced, to play a certain style or to have a certain Equip, because otherwise the so called Elite or Pro Gamers are getting nervous breakdowns when you aren't properly equipped and cause drama! (and there are enough out there... sure, not on this forum...no way ).

And yeah, i'm pissed. Had a terrible Monday and now ...this! *bah!!*

[Bovinity Divinity]

You don't really believe, that all the *peep* who want that Gear-Progression (for feeling sooooooo muuuuuuuch stronger) will play with someone in the normal Dungeon who hasn't that Equip? So to play random (with smaller Guilds sometimes necessary) will be a pain in the ass and i don't have time or nervs to do that.

And i don't need to wait to see this happen. It will happen, because that Gear will make the other Dungeons easier (and if you're only a minute faster...) and that new Gear mandatory. You will need that Gear... and i don't want to be forced, to play a certain style or to have a certain Equip, because otherwise the so called Elite or Pro Gamers are getting nervous breakdowns when you aren't properly equipped and cause drama! (and there are enough out there... sure, not on this forum...no way ).

Heh, this already happens. Look at all the "LF 1 more Heavy Armor class for XYZ, full exotics only." stuff that gets advertised. =)