New Dungeon, Fractals of the Mists

[Zeek Daniels]

Now we've come to this, where GW2 is releasing a new dungeon and a new set of upgraded gear with a special type of stat needed to do the new content. This, however, gets a pass as being optional or non-mandatory, even though it fulfills all the criteria of all the complaints people had about WoW, which were all the reasons that people claimed they were flocking here to GW2.

Or to put it another way, Firelands was every bit as optional as Fractals is.

And this is where you are wrong Bov. The bolded parts are correct. Anet is releasing a new dungeon. Anet is releasing a new set of upgraded gear. But the next part is where you are wrong. Anet is not requireing that you have that stat to do the new content. The content is doable without the required stat. The content has a higher difficulty which the stat is needed. This is the difference between WoW's Raiding system which limits players who dont have the gear from doing any part of the raid, and GW2 which still allows those who dont have this special stat to do the dungeon.

In order for WoW to do the same they would need to get rid of the gear requirement for LFR and then the concept would be the same. Raids would then become accessible to all players while Normal and Heroic versions would become Optional content for those that want to keep progressing their gear. As it stands right now LFR is not tuned for a level 90 in full greens but for a level 90 in full blues, i say this because there is a ilvl requirement to even gain access to the LFR queue.

So again FotM will allow all players to experience the content. Those who wish to do harder versions of the dungeon will have the opportunity to do so by upgrading their gear with this special stat. This special stat however does not affect players outside the confines of the dungeon. And those players not doing the FotM dungeon wont feel "left behind"

[The Darkitecht]

snip

I agree for the most part. "Feeling left behind, or forced to progress" is all in the mentality of the individual. Most players aren't going to feel like they have to rush to get ascended armor because..

1) Most players don't even rush to get exotic gear, anyone who WvW's a lot (and has been since they were low level) doesn't give a rats ass because they are doing plenty fine without gear. It's not that much of a difference. Guild Wars 2 reminds me a lot of LoL or SC2. When I die, I know it's my fault for playing poorly - not because the guy has massively better gear then me. Maybe that's because I never put myself in a position where the enemy severely can have an upper hand on me.

2) There just isn't enough gear being released at once to stress an individual out and make them feel like there's so much to farm. A new tier on another game includes..

New dungeon gear. (5 Man, casual style.)
Various levels of raid gear that are exactly the same just different in item level.
New daily's to farm or reputation to grind.
New crafting recipes to obtain and crafting gear to grind.


And this happens every six months.

3) The amount of players that are hard-core min/max players WITHOUT some sort of damage meter to track their increase, and WITHOUT clear formula on the way things work....... Let's just say there are very, very little players who are going to say...

"8% increase on THREE slots? holy crap, it'll make me do 840.21 more DPS and I must obtain them because when I reach 80% crit damage, power becomes more valuable then crit damage damage so that means that I can swap my chest out for a chest with power instead of precision and I can....." yeah, been there and done that on other games, just doesn't happen in this one.



This is three items, one of them obtainable in the mystic forge - and I'd be willing to bet that anyone who seeks them will have them by the time (or before) they actually need them.

'til then, progress through the Fractals by knowing how to play and actually spending time to put together a solid build, it's far greater then getting gear. (Opinion:: People that bitch about current dungeons being a wipefest as the reason they hate them, probably should take this advice because they are actually completely trivial and enjoyable if you are half decent.)

[The Darkitecht]

I personally am not damning other games, I'm saying that the complaints about a treadmill are severely unjustified at this point. When we see further progression, I'll throw down some complaints myself because at that point it will certainly be everything I didn't want in guild wars. However, it is completely obvious that this has been in the works since beta and was evidently intended all along.

I simply made a comparison, and it's of my opinion that 3 pieces of non-mandatory gear doesn't constitute as a grind. You can argue by principle, and that's fine - that doesn't change reality though. The reality is that you'll be done experiencing the content long before you even see an Ascended piece, and as such - the loot is not mandatory. This is not the same philosophy followed by other games.

Edit: I do really wish that they'd told us in advance that this was their intent. I do not agree with the way they went about this at all, for the record. However, the essence of it all should be alright so long as this is as far as they take it.

[Zeek Daniels]

Honestly, I just feel overwhelmed with the amount of things to address in those two posts. I feel like I've said it all before, though. There's still just so many things where you're still damning other games for the same things you're giving GW2 a pass on.

And i feel like i have said this plenty of times. Reasonable individuals will give GW2 a pass because we are still able to do 100% of the content. We however will not give that pass in games where we can only do 90% or 95% of the content. Yea raids are a small part of some games, but that part is gated based on your gear. GW2 has managed to still give you that part without the gate. And thats why it gets a pass.

[Svifnymr]

Now we've come to this, where GW2 is releasing a new dungeon and a new set of upgraded gear with a special type of stat needed to do the new content. This, however, gets a pass as being optional or non-mandatory, even though it fulfills all the criteria of all the complaints people had about WoW, which were all the reasons that people claimed they were flocking here to GW2.

Or to put it another way, Firelands was every bit as optional as Fractals is.

The difference, what makes it a treadmill, is that to do Firelands you needed Bastion gear (for example), to do Dragon Soul, you needed Firelands. You couldn't just jump in to Firelands or Dragon Soul at 85. You have to get better gear in order to run content to get better gear to run content to get...

Yeah, they added alternate methods by which you could get last seasons gear in order to start working on the current raid, but as an example when I returned after missing a year, I was too low ilvl to run raid finder, so in order to see Dragon Soul Easy Mode, I'd have to farm other stuff to get the gear.

I'm not sure why they're making Ascended gear more powerful than the other, it'd be simple enough to just make the Agony mechanic versus Infusions (which would slot in normal upgrade slots) without needing a power up. But you don't need Ascended gear to even get into Fractal, and hopefully that trend will maintain with any new stuff released that uses Agony.

[ControlBlue]

Anet didnt go back on their word Remilia. The stuck to it and introduced a new type of gameplay into the game that doesnt limit any player of any type base on gear.

That's not true, they did by introducing a new tier and forcing people to replace gear they thought they would never have to touch again.

Also, you can bet your sweet poonanie that it won't be easy to get Ascended gears, they are pretty much trying to rectify the ease through which you can get top-levels gears. You will be able to get Exotics as easy as you ever did, but then to get to Ascended gears you will have to work for it, and then if you want Legendaries... you better get ready to farm stuffs, lots of stuffs...

[Sylvanie]

Also, you can bet your sweet poonanie that it won't be easy to get Ascended gears, they are pretty much trying to rectify the ease through which you can get top-levels gears. You will be able to get Exotics as easy as you ever did, but then to get to Ascended gears you will have to work for it, and then if you want Legendaries... you better get ready to farm stuffs, lots of stuffs...

Correct, the new post by Ramon Domke on the German GW2 forums confirms this: Ascended gear is designed to be between exotic and legendary gear in terms of the time needed to acquire it.

[Deleted]

According to GW2hub, each Fractal run awards 5 Fractal Relics, 1350 are needed to buy an accessory.
Grinding is so much fun!

[Sylvanie]

According to GW2hub, each Fractal run awards 5 Fractal Relics, 1350 are needed to buy an accessory.
Grinding is so much fun!

Rewards will increase at higher difficulty levels (according to mmorpg.com). That said, yes, it'll still be a grind (as expected).

[Zeek Daniels]

According to GW2hub, each Fractal run awards 5 Fractal Relics, 1350 are needed to buy an accessory.
Grinding is so much fun!

Last time i checked im still grinding for a full exotic CoF exploreable dungeon set. Nothing new in this game =p

[Granyala]

Ahahahaha. Guess gear treadmills really are kind of important. Character progression is necessary, Anet realized that I suppose.

Heh... heheh... I suspected something like this would happen. There is no way you can entertain PvE-gamers w/o longterm goals. Gear-grind is the cheapest way out.

[Deleted]

Last time i checked im still grinding for a full exotic CoF exploreable dungeon set. Nothing new in this game =p

Yeah but you "only" need to run CoF about 25 times (60 trophies each) to buy an entire set, 25 is away lower than 270.

Edit: Didn't saw this until now.

Rewards will increase at higher difficulty levels (according to mmorpg.com). That said, yes, it'll still be a grind (as expected).

That's kind of reassuring.

[Zeek Daniels]

Yeah but you "only" need to run CoF about 25 times (60 trophies each) to buy an entire set, 25 is away lower than 270.

a grind is a grind no matter how long it is. Just like i dont have to do those CoF runs i choose to do them. You dont have to do the new dungeon for the loot, you choose to do it. We all play MMO's knowing they all have grinds. Its nothing new.

[Zeek Daniels]

Ahahhaa, So apparently when your doing these Fractals the difficulty will keep scaling. Eventually youll hit that gear wall and will have to stop. You cant go back to a lower difficulty on your own. You need someone in your party who hasnt progressed as far. Fractals will instead reset once per week, this way you can keep farming the tokens that drop as well as have more chances at ascended loot. This will also prevent "elitist" groups from only looking for certain progressed characters. Since they will always have to start at level 1 at the begining of the next week. Also it would make more sense for the group to invite at least 1 person who was new to fractals after reaching their cap.

So guys be prepared to see alot of "LF1M FotM, difficulty 1 characters only"

[Thelxi]

I just wish they would give in to the trinity instead of giving in to a run of the mill gear progression, at least to an extend.

I am so sick of kiting, repairing and reviving, I would prefer a huge buff to pve healing over this insulting direction.

[Valeron]

If they put in the trinity, I'm out for sure.

[zito]

According to GW2hub, each Fractal run awards 5 Fractal Relics, 1350 are needed to buy an accessory.
Grinding is so much fun!

which drop in the dungeon and is only usefulness is oh what do you know... IN THE DUNGEON.

It's there for unlucky people and alts really.

[Fencers]

If they put in the trinity, I'm out for sure.

LOL that would probably keep me fora long time playing more so than gear. Love it.

I am sorta excited that Teso looks to have a role trinity w/ actiony combat. But not too actiony, hopefully.

Really I can not stand playing "dps". And that's all you are in GW2-- a dps with 1 or 2 control/support abilities. I really only enjoy tanking in MMOs.

[Valeron]

Well different strokes for different folks Fencers, I'm sure you know my preferences by now. I don't really play mmos anymore because of the trinity gameplay (in part). One of the big draws of this game for me was the lack of the trinity. But I'm pretty sure they won't add it in.

[Maarius]

Ahahhaa, So apparently when your doing these Fractals the difficulty will keep scaling. Eventually youll hit that gear wall and will have to stop. You cant go back to a lower difficulty on your own. You need someone in your party who hasnt progressed as far. Fractals will instead reset once per week, this way you can keep farming the tokens that drop as well as have more chances at ascended loot. This will also prevent "elitist" groups from only looking for certain progressed characters. Since they will always have to start at level 1 at the begining of the next week. Also it would make more sense for the group to invite at least 1 person who was new to fractals after reaching their cap.

So guys be prepared to see alot of "LF1M FotM, difficulty 1 characters only"

I'm pretty sure I read that you can choose lower difficulties if you like