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  1. #81
    Completely agree with OP

    If you don't read forums you won't get your class's rotation right. My casual friends (people not good at computer games) would never dream of reading a forum.

    They did very average dps. When they grouped for a 5 man they got the expected elitist response of "L2Play n00b!". Get out of my game, stop wasting my time and voting to be kicked.

    That doesn't have to happen very many times before the game is no longer fun.

    And they quit.

    And while I still play and raid, I miss them. And I find I miss that kind of person in the WoW community. The kind of player that is social and pleasant and wants to play to have fun - not just all about epeen.

    But hey - it's a changing world - and WoW doesn't want casual noobs playing it - I get it, we'll survive - I just think it's to WoW's detriment.

    And I agree with the OP - a simple fix is to make class rotations more noob friendly (or at least not so punishing if you play it poorly) and raid content more challenging, much like the balance was in Vanilla.
    Last edited by Thesentinel; 2012-11-13 at 05:26 AM.

  2. #82
    Banned sandmoth12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thesentinel View Post
    Completely agree with OP

    If you don't read forums you won't get your class's rotation right. My casual friends (people not good at computer games) would never dream of reading a forum.

    They did very average dps. When they grouped for a 5 man they got the expected elitist response of "L2Play n00b!". Get out of my game, stop wasting my time and voting to be kicked.

    That doesn't have to happen very many times before the game is no longer fun.

    And they quit.

    And while I still play and raid, I miss them. And I find I miss that kind of person in the WoW community. The kind of player that is social and pleasant and wants to play to have fun - not just all about epeen.

    But hey - it's a changing world - and WoW doesn't want casual noobs playing it - I get it, we'll survive - I just think it's to WoW's detriment.

    And I agree with the OP - a simple fix is to make class rotations more noob friendly (or at least not so punishing if you play it poorly) and raid content more challenging, much like the balance was in Vanilla.
    ^This.....

  3. #83
    the title doesn't make sense ...
    you could say, for example, that "rotations lead to complicated real-life situations" - if you're talking about a hospital
    anyways I suggest you work on that to help clear things up

  4. #84
    From a warlocks perspective T7 has been the most complicated and fun rotation, affliction or GTFO! Since then it's been watered down and then watered down some more for good measure

    Quote Originally Posted by Thesentinel View Post

    If you don't read forums you won't get your class's rotation right. My casual friends (people not good at computer games) would never dream of reading a forum.
    That's when friends, guildies, or a desire to get better will lead them to those forums.

  5. #85
    Warchief Redpanda's Avatar
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    balance in vanilla? the same vanilla where if you where a druid you did nothing but be a innervate bitch? The same vanilla where if you had a heal spec you healed? the same vanilla where if you wasnt a warrior you wouldnt be allowed to tank? Where most to all classes where 1 to 2 buttons? no thanks...if the class you play the rotation is hard reroll arcane mage.

    PS you should try out a DoC speced feral.

  6. #86
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nii View Post
    I'm absolutely amazed that anyone could say that rotations are complicated. They are at their most simplistic at any time during WoW's timeframe and you want them simplified again?

    The mind boggles.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZlpZfKi6TI

    You were saying?

  7. #87
    Rotations only becomes as hard as you want them.

    You can install addons that tracks you're trinket procces, so you can line other things up with them.

    You can cordinate with you're raid when heroisme is best used for you.

    You can try chain CD's for the best uses at the most important times.

    Edit: Forgot to say that WOL can be a great tool, to spot mistakes inn up-time for dots and whatnot. Or just flat out compare you're stats with another guy, why did he do better than you, even trough you're somewhat equal geared?
    Last edited by Djuntas; 2012-11-18 at 04:01 PM.
    One reason for WoW decline I often hear is that its an old game and naturally people get bored with it. But TV is much older and people still watch that. Surely if a thing you once enjoyed keept staying fun, you would still use it?

  8. #88
    There are plenty of specs with 2-3 dps buttons that you mash and like all other classes, cooldown abilities. From someone who played this game since it got released back in 2005. I can say that this game has became a Lot less complicated. The way talents and spells work

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Tavin View Post
    There are plenty of specs with 2-3 dps buttons that you mash and like all other classes, cooldown abilities. From someone who played this game since it got released back in 2005. I can say that this game has became a Lot less complicated. The way talents and spells work
    The only "complicated" things in early wow where stance dancing, spell downranking and feral dps.
    The problem with rotations now isn't that they're too complicated but for some specs they can become very hectic, which sucks if you don't have the reaction time.

  10. #90
    Appearantly Arms warrior is complicated. I didn't know that.

  11. #91
    I agree completely OP

    When something is more complex than it needs to be it's a sign of poor design. I'd much rather have difficulty coming from having to stay on the move to avoid hazards, thinking on my feet, compensating for something unexpected etc. than from oh noees i missed this button by 0.01ms so now my dps will drop by x amount. More pvp style fights in pve where each player has to play well on his own rather than tunneling the rotation he looked up on EJ/noxxic/mmo-c wherever and then linking recount in chat afterwards
    This is absolutely the attitude and language that, in this community, needs to go sit in the corner for a while. If you can't stand the thought of there being multiple difficulty tiers of content -- into which we pour a lot of our development efforts -- to make raiding feasible for more than 2% of players, hit Heroic mode, turn on vent, and repeatedly remind your friends how good you are. I have no doubt they care

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by jn2002dk View Post
    I agree completely OP

    When something is more complex than it needs to be it's a sign of poor design. I'd much rather have difficulty coming from having to stay on the move to avoid hazards, thinking on my feet, compensating for something unexpected etc. than from oh noees i missed this button by 0.01ms so now my dps will drop by x amount. More pvp style fights in pve where each player has to play well on his own rather than tunneling the rotation he looked up on EJ/noxxic/mmo-c wherever and then linking recount in chat afterwards
    For me as a DPS a huge part of my enjoyment comes from pushing the very best DPS I can while following the mechanics. For example, first few attenuations I had to basically focus on moving so I more or less only used bloodthirst + some other random move as I was moving. Now I'm able to play quite well during that moment, and that's something that I find fun.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxie View Post
    For me as a DPS a huge part of my enjoyment comes from pushing the very best DPS I can while following the mechanics. For example, first few attenuations I had to basically focus on moving so I more or less only used bloodthirst + some other random move as I was moving. Now I'm able to play quite well during that moment, and that's something that I find fun.
    But they could make far more interesting fights with a less convoluted rotation instead imo
    This is absolutely the attitude and language that, in this community, needs to go sit in the corner for a while. If you can't stand the thought of there being multiple difficulty tiers of content -- into which we pour a lot of our development efforts -- to make raiding feasible for more than 2% of players, hit Heroic mode, turn on vent, and repeatedly remind your friends how good you are. I have no doubt they care

  14. #94
    personally i hate the start of a fight on my hunter, be it as SV or BM.
    so much cd's too use in the correct row as quickly as possible just too reset them and repeat them all over.

    once that part is done, the protation is simple enough

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    Rotations are as complicated as you want them to be.

    If you want a simple rotation as Ret and don't care about the dps consequences, you don't use Inquisition.

    If the game in this state is hard for you, I suggest you reroll to a simpler class
    Nicely put, and far more polite than my response would have been.

    /salute

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by sandmoth12 View Post
    I view myself as a simplistic person so I enjoy my content harder and my class easier.
    Did you really think this was a good sentence?

    What is simplistic about harder content? In order to make content hard without adding dumb things like insta gibs, people unavoidably dying as part of the encounter, ridiculous tank damage, fear, etc., you have to create complicated phases, mechanics, target swaps. Add tons of avoidable things, gimmicks, maybe forcing yourself to have to take some damage - but not too much damage, having to move the entire fight, etc. Which is not simplistic.

    You can also make content harder by making the class and role you're playing more involved and complicated, so that while having to target swap and move every 2 seconds and recognize when phases are starting and ending, you also have to focus on playing your class correctly. You have to push out as much DPS as possible or the boss enrages. You have to be able to heal effectively without going out of mana. You have to be able to tank the boss in the right place so cones and tail swipes don't hit the raid, you have to pick up adds and move them correctly so the DPS can hit them here or there, and you have to use your own cooldowns and reaction abilities to heal yourself/take less damage from something coming up, or allow healers extra time to heal you up after a heavy hit.

    If our classes were as simple as cast these spells in this order, use these abilities in this order, use this button every time it's up, heal until your eyes bleed and disregard mana, the bosses would either be super easy or that much more complicated to make up for the classes being fucking simple. Everyone could play at full capacity just by having gear and being 90. What would separate skill levels of players except for overly intensely complicated boss fights?

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Nii View Post
    I'm absolutely amazed that anyone could say that rotations are complicated. They are at their most simplistic at any time during WoW's timeframe and you want them simplified again?

    The mind boggles.
    I don't know. It's hard to get less complex than Wrath's ret paladin and arcane mage rotations. Right now balance druid is insanely dumb. You simply watch your meter go back and forth and it tells you what to cast.

  18. #98
    Epic! OneSent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandmoth12 View Post
    I view myself as a simplistic person so I enjoy my content harder and my class easier.
    I agree 100% with absolutely everything you've said. Unfortunately, I don't think many people here would understand where we are coming from.

    There used to be a time in the World of Warcraft, when the most difficult aspect of the game was the game itself, the bosses and raids themselves; not the class you played.

    A majority of the classes right now are bloated with abilities and procs and cooldowns and buffs and debuffs to watch in addition to boss timers, boss mechanics, whether or not you are standing in shit, special extra raid buttons, alternate power bars etc. etc. It's ridiculous. I would compare raiding on most classes today to the equivalent of playing a game of Whack-A-Mole.

    I haven't been logging on very much this expansion due to this is very reason. When I have to constantly think and calculate what I am doing to just execute an optimal rotation when playing my class, then it sucks the fun out of everything else. And these threads have been popping up more and more recently, so it's not just our imaginations.

    Anyone who can't at least partially see this as an issue is either playing a Mage or an Assassination rogue. Because never in the game's history have I had to go to such lengths in setting up a special 'derp-proof UI' just for raiding so I can monitor all the procs and buffs I have today. The default UI used to be enough. Not anymore. Not by a long shot.
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  19. #99
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    I definately enjoy standing there casting Fireball until a brigt red icon on my screen tells me to hit Inferno Blast and do a Pyroblast afterwards.

    Having 4-5 abilities is really complicated.

    Quote Originally Posted by OneSent View Post
    There used to be a time in the World of Warcraft, when the most difficult aspect of the game was the game itself, the bosses and raids themselves; not the class you played.
    When was that? Auto-Attack-AFK-Molten Core?
    Ex-Rogue; Ex-Paladin
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  20. #100
    You spelled 'too' wrong...

    Please don't post just to correct someone's grammar.
    Last edited by Arlee; 2012-11-18 at 11:27 PM.

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