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  1. #101
    This thread invited to: "trololol you cant play, cause everything is suuuuper easy" but fact is some rotations have become complicated, i would'nt say too complicated, but the game is a different game than it was back when you bandaged at the edge of boss fights and didn't use flasks. Nowadays wow is a platform where people can compare their "skills"through wowprogress, arenaladders, epeenbot, worldoflogs and a simple rotation wouldnt ft in that philosophy. Wow accomodates just about everyone now and thats a good thing, playing your class well, in my case for instance running pandemic addons to see what refresh method is best and tracking cd's requires alot of input but it isnt an entry requirement.
    In my opinion rotation is fine and I like whats happening to the game save a few points

  2. #102
    Banned sandmoth12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxie View Post
    For me as a DPS a huge part of my enjoyment comes from pushing the very best DPS I can while following the mechanics. For example, first few attenuations I had to basically focus on moving so I more or less only used bloodthirst + some other random move as I was moving. Now I'm able to play quite well during that moment, and that's something that I find fun.
    I just don't see how people enjoy looking down at their keyboard or at a list of cool downs rather than looking at your environment, and paying attention to what is happening. I missed most the cool sights of Pandaria while leveling because my head was down stressing over perfect my clogged rotation.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 01:47 PM ----------

    I am just happy this issue is coming to light. This thread isn't completely one sided. Many seem to also think this is a problem.

  3. #103
    there are a few classes I'd agree where they should get rid of a spell or two and just buff up their damage a little. Besides those very few its fine

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by sandmoth12 View Post
    I just don't see how people enjoy looking down at their keyboard or at a list of cool downs rather than looking at your environment, and paying attention to what is happening. I missed most the cool sights of Pandaria while leveling because my head was down stressing over perfect my clogged rotation.
    tbh i can fully enjoy the environment even when im pushing my dps to the limits, you just have to know your class and you can almost achieve max dps while barely looking at your bars atleast it is for me like that atm i just get great joy out of being top dps while not having failed on tactics at all
    Last edited by yuareapirate; 2012-11-18 at 10:51 PM.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by OneSent View Post
    There used to be a time in the World of Warcraft, when the most difficult aspect of the game was the game itself, the bosses and raids themselves; not the class you played.

    A majority of the classes right now are bloated with abilities and procs and cooldowns and buffs and debuffs to watch in addition to boss timers, boss mechanics, whether or not you are standing in shit, special extra raid buttons, alternate power bars etc. etc. It's ridiculous. I would compare raiding on most classes today to the equivalent of playing a game of Whack-A-Mole.
    The problem with that is that people tend to get better in time... And not only the veteran players, but the newcomers come with a greater experience of gaming in general.

    You can't make simple raids (which they were, I mean the 'most difficult aspect of the game' was pretty simple compared to now) with simple priority lists and expect people to play the game for >8 years. So they had to add difficulty gradually. Mechanics get harder, class priorities get more in depth and you have to do good at both at the same time to achieve that heroic kill. It's not like dpsing is hard, but planning and reacting according to boss abilities is harder. Give one of those up and you will have a too easy game for -at least- some players, because of the build-up until now.

    For most of the normal content I don't think you actually need to do the optimal dps/hps/tanking anyway... There is nothing wrong with doing your best of course, but it shouldn't overshadow your way of having fun.

  6. #106
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneSent View Post
    A majority of the classes right now are bloated with abilities and procs and cooldowns and buffs and debuffs to watch in addition to boss timers, boss mechanics, whether or not you are standing in shit, special extra raid buttons, alternate power bars etc. etc. It's ridiculous. I would compare raiding on most classes today to the equivalent of playing a game of Whack-A-Mole.
    Pretty much this.

    People complained that this or that was too easy, and like clockwork, devs can show by how much they can make things so convoluted to defy reason. No longer is it about watching where you stood, it's a game now more about this...

    http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/eventhorizon

    Now some might enjoy playing the game to such a level that a timeline is needed for optimum DPS, but requiring it to play is extreme.

    The balance is finding the right variety of abilities without the need for complexity (e.g., Occam's Razor rules)...and sticking to it despite calls for even more features and complexity. This is a game to have fun, not work.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Thesentinel View Post

    They did very average dps. When they grouped for a 5 man they got the expected elitist response of "L2Play n00b!". Get out of my game, stop wasting my time and voting to be kicked.
    I've done a ton of 5-mans and I've never seen average DPS kicked. I've seen raid geared players go into dungeons and brag about carrying the group, but they weren't kicking anyone. Now if you're just auto attacking and doing 6k dps, then yes there's an issue. But you don't need to read guides to do acceptable DPS in dungeons.

    The last time I had a dungeon wipe due to lack of DPS was probably Heroic Grim Batol in early Cata. There aren't any DPS checks in dungeons anymore.

  8. #108
    I dont think the rotations are too complicated, but I do think some classes have too many dps cooldowns. I stopped playing my hunter partly because of that. Stampede, what the fuck is that?! It's just so stupid.

  9. #109
    Lets look at TBC, casters mainly spammed 1 spell: Fireball, shadow bolt, starfire. Melees had a few attacks: Bloodthirst, sinister strike, stormstrike, other than that it was mostly auto attacks. Good players didn't really stand out that much , but then again you didn't have to deal with noobs who couldn't do a proper rotation. You paid more attention to the boss than yourself. It made sense.

  10. #110
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    I've done a ton of 5-mans and I've never seen average DPS kicked.
    Oh, I've seen it when a group kicked a mage because he was jumping up and down, and even worse. People kick for anything.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  11. #111
    Pit Lord velde046's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandmoth12 View Post
    yet classes and rotations were much easier to play.
    Really? So far I have been playing my mage and paladin, and especially the latter as Ret is on of the easiest. Haven't tried the others yet, but if Cata playstyle is anything to go by, then the rest won't be much harder.

  12. #112
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    Rotations aren't complex or difficult at all. For no class.
    Also, keep in mind that you use that "rotation" so much it becomes completely natural, mechanical and obvious after a few weeks or months.

    The rotations are just SLIGHTLY involving because if they wouldn't be (for example if you just would spam 1 attack over and over again on the boss), then gameplay wouldn't be fun when doing this rotation on a single target over and over again over the course of 5-15 minutes. Plain and simple.

    There also was a blue post some time ago (during Cataclysm I think) where they talked a little bit about rotational difficulty, and they always aim for the sweet spot where a rotation is complex enough to not be boring but also easy enough to not be overwhelming. So that it should feel just right. And I think they've hit it for most if not all classes.

    Some classes/specs may be slightly more involving than others, for example current Disc priest is the most involving healing spec because you have to keep track of and coordinate a ton of small cooldowns, but it's still absolutely manageable and far from "hard". It's just a little bit more multitasking involved than the norm.

    Difficulty has to always come from the encounter, not your basic class gameplay.
    Last edited by TaurenNinja; 2012-11-19 at 09:38 AM.

  13. #113
    High Overlord Windech's Avatar
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    Oh god >_>

    This game should go back to its earlier roots where people had to find out for themselves which abilities are better than others. The recently added "this should be active all the time" crap was a terrible idea. Atm the content is getting easier and so are the rotations. Won't be long until you can do a full HC encounter one handed without moving for anything.

    WoW is getting easier and easier to play since the release of WotLK, spoon feeding the tards who can't be bothered to open Chrome and figure things out on their own. Another reason behind the falling subs... go figure

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by TaurenNinja View Post
    Rotations aren't complex or difficult at all. For no class.
    Also, keep in mind that you use that "rotation" so much it becomes completely natural, mechanical and obvious after a few weeks or months.
    The rotations are just SLIGHTLY involving because if they wouldn't be (for example if you just would spam 1 attack over and over again on the boss), then gameplay wouldn't be fun when doing this rotation on a single target over and over again over the course of 5-15 minutes. Plain and simple.
    There also was a blue post some time ago (during Cataclysm I think) where they talked a little bit about rotational difficulty, and they always aim for the sweet spot where a rotation is complex enough to not be boring but also easy enough to not be overwhelming. So that it should feel just right. And I think they've hit it for most if not all classes.
    I think we need a distinction here because when i say convoluted/complex i don't mean it's hard to pull off. What it means for me is that it's reached a point (a long time ago mind) where fighting a boss is more about executing that rotation than it is about responding to boss attacks, environmental hazards etc.

    I would much rather see a design which was more action oriented. Instead of mechanically doing the same rotation you'd have to choose your attack based on the situation i.e. where you're standing, how the boss is attacking, hazards to avoid etc. As it is now, if you have to move you move and then resume the same rotation again. It doesn't really feel like a fight when you're more concerned with watching combo points or procs but that's just my 2c. FPS games for example can have skill based fights with only 1 or 2 attacks, they don't need a complicated rotation. Same with action RPGs
    This is absolutely the attitude and language that, in this community, needs to go sit in the corner for a while. If you can't stand the thought of there being multiple difficulty tiers of content -- into which we pour a lot of our development efforts -- to make raiding feasible for more than 2% of players, hit Heroic mode, turn on vent, and repeatedly remind your friends how good you are. I have no doubt they care

  15. #115
    Scarab Lord Zka's Avatar
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    Some specs may be complicated, but all specs I have tried since MoP were simple and I did not have to google them at all.
    I have tried frost/fire mage specs, shadow priest, blood/frost DK, prot warrior and they were all very simple and easy to understand.
    Getting the last 10% might be hard, but it's very easy to play any of these specs to 90% of potential.

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  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by parish View Post
    Are you fucking kidding me?
    What do you want?
    Auto attack and a single spell?
    Please don't infract him, he's absolutely right.

  17. #117
    Rotations right now seem to be very well designed. Getting 100% out of your specc requires (for the most part) knowledge of your mechanics (how many buffs do you need to have in order for it to be worth refreshing your dots), the ability to maximize your cooldown/buff/debuff uptime and as well as timing it with boss mechanics. This is required from players progressing on very hard content (or carrying a bunch of nitwits through normal content). Most players only need to get about 70%-80% out of their specc in order to beat the content they're working on (normal modes, HM's after nerfs/heavy overgearing) which requires knowing their basic rotation and performing that with only a few mistakes and without perfect uptime or timing. Some speccs obviously punishes the players harder for mistakes, but overall the design intent and current implementation seems very good.

  18. #118
    The Patient kenshinag's Avatar
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    I dunno man. I had fun playing with complicated rotations. I played Destro in Cata on my lock and we had to:

    * Keep Curse of Elements debuff up.
    * Keep Immolate DOT up.
    * Keep Corruption DOT up.
    * Keep Bane of Doom DOT up.
    * Keep 5% crit debuff up.
    * Keep Soulfire buff up. Make sure to give 2-3 seconds leeway to keep the buff up to make up for travel time between distance of you and boss.
    * Keep Conflag on cooldown for Incinerate buff.
    * Keep Chaos Bolt on cooldown.
    * Keep eye out for instant cast Soulfire proc from your Imp. Cast those ASAP to make sure you don't waste the proc.
    * Keep Shadowflame on cooldown. *have to be in Melee range*
    * Add Shadowburn on cooldown to this when in execute phase.
    * Demon Soul is a damage cool down.
    * Doomguard is another damage cool down.
    * If you did all that stuff, then you could Incinerate for filler.

    Now we:
    * Keep Curse of Elements up.
    * Keep Immolate up.
    * Keep Conflag on cool down.
    * Chaos Bolt.
    * Incinerate for filler.

    This is why I had to go Affliction.
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  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Quarts View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br1hXGXJ7Tg

    Yeah, I really wanna go back to this. It was super challenging.
    it's really quite interesting how much slower everything looks, as if someone would be playing it on slow motion ^^

  20. #120
    Perhaps the rotations are becoming more complicated than the tactics?

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