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  1. #41
    If you are new to programming try 'Python', it should give you the feel of coding and it is pretty simple and you should be able to work your way to C/C++ from there!

  2. #42
    Alright, I decided to pick up C#. I did some C# but never got further than writing a simple GUI calculator (and that was about 1½ years ago). However, I felt I enjoyed C# more than Python, so I'mma go with that. Anyone know any good online courses for it?

  3. #43
    Epic! Idrinkwhiterussians's Avatar
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    I don't know about courses, but for sure, the suggestion of downloading VB Express (for free ) is a very sound suggestion.

    I have just started my computer science degree, and though I am leaning more towards the networking/hardware side of things, I still have to learn programming. VB is what I have started out with.

    Also, you can get VB Studio Pro (for free) if you are a college student and can prove it. (providing your Uni e-mail address)
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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Idrinkwhiterussians View Post
    Also, you can get VB Studio Pro (for free) if you are a college student and can prove it. (providing your Uni e-mail address)
    I'm still in high school unfortunately.

    Seriously, fuck high school.

  5. #45
    C# is fairly good, considered it's origin.
    If you're happy with windows it's a fine way to go ^^

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatketchup View Post
    I'm still in high school unfortunately.

    Seriously, fuck high school.
    Go ahead and grab VS Express from http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/eng/downloads . For guides/tutorials, http://www.csharp-station.com/Tutorial.aspx isn't too bad but if you have a base understand, I recommend picking an application that you want to do and use those tutorials to help yourself build it - it'll really increase your interest in programming.

  7. #47
    Bloodsail Admiral Twoddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatketchup View Post
    Anyone know any good online courses for it?
    I recommend the C# Soup To Nuts series of webcasts, you can almost learn the language overnight. I don't have a link, the series is becoming increasing harder to find unfortunately.

    But you can beat a good book on the subject IMO. Learning by reading online tutorials suffers from the fact that you will be distracted by following links to other sources all the time. If you buy a good book, you bought it so you will read it and you can program while referring to it.

  8. #48
    (sorry I dont have a free one off the top of my head)

    https://tutsplus.com/
    Very good website for general web development/programming.

    http://www.lynda.com/C-training-tutorials/1022-0.html
    Great video tutorials


    (oh I do have a free one...)
    http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF9EB1975D35A8096
    More good video tutorials

    http://www.dreamincode.net/forums/forum/84-c/
    Good forums for questions, also has some tutorials

    C# is going to last you a good while so I would recommend sticking with it; the vast majority of job offers I got coming out of college were for some kind of .net project.

    Also, if you go with a physical book, try to get one with exercises and actually do them.

    I'm a big fan of the Murach book series.
    Quote Originally Posted by Twoddle View Post

    But you can beat a good book on the subject IMO. Learning by reading online tutorials suffers from the fact that you will be distracted by following links to other sources all the time.
    The amount of truth in this post cannot be overstated.

  9. #49
    Well, I feel horrible now. I still can't be motivated to do it. I tried to create some applications but I absolutely suck at it, I have no idea what to program in the first place, and all these video tutorials make me sleepy. Literally, I have problems keeping my eyes open, the videos just bore me that much. Maybe programming just ain't my thing, in which case I have no idea whatsoever what I want to become.

  10. #50
    Can be a bit boring to try to make projects you have no interrest in, but are the ones there's possible for you.
    I've never used C# myself, or spent much time finding out about it, but some projects that can be somewhat fun could be:

    Sokoban that just outputs to console. It takes input, but you don't have to mess with GUI.
    Program to read images from, for instance, 9gag.com down to your computer and going to next image. Mostly to get the idea of how to make programs work with sites.
    Snake with GUI. It's getting around a lot of diffrent things, but shouldn't be too overwhelming, and people should be able to help you out if you get stuck.
    A counter that reads your keypresses/mouseclicks, and tells the average pr minute, over a given time. Seeing if you get faster in wow, or at coding

    Dunno if it's anything you would think was fun to do, but personally i found it more fun than glorified Hello worlds.
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  11. #51
    Bloodsail Admiral Twoddle's Avatar
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    Can't help you then mate, if you don't like it you don't like it. I'm ploughing through a book on WPF 4 (Windows Presentation Foundation) right now and enjoying every moment of it, sucking up the info like a sponge .

    In the end in comes down to what you want to do and you use what you've learned so far to do that. Can you think of a simple project you can write using what you've learned so far? It's always good to have some personal side project in progress while you do these things, something slightly challenging, it gives you more motivation and every now you have these eureka moments as you learn more ways of doing things.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatketchup View Post
    Well, I feel horrible now. I still can't be motivated to do it. I tried to create some applications but I absolutely suck at it, I have no idea what to program in the first place, and all these video tutorials make me sleepy. Literally, I have problems keeping my eyes open, the videos just bore me that much. Maybe programming just ain't my thing, in which case I have no idea whatsoever what I want to become.
    Give another language a try then. If at first you don't succeed, don't give up. I'd say from the fact that you've tried and that some part of it does intrigue you that you're not liking it.

    It could be that you don't like programming, but it could be that you've just not found either the right language, and/or the right method of learning. Some people learn perfectly fine from books, others from internet tutorials. Me? I learn best by diving right in and trying it out. I actually started by downloading a sample project that interested me. In my example, one project was an internet chat client. It was a fairly complicated project for me at the time, but i simply added a few of my own touches to it such as changing the time format that was displayed, creating an admin interface, and adding the option to make the interface partially transparent.

    I also made a basic web browser, but that's a project i'd rather forget these days.

    Another project, and one that almost got me into trouble, was part-web part-desktop. I've had webhosting for many years before my current site. On one site, i had a web proxy. I created an application that was just a button and an edit box. Type an address into the edit box, click the button, and it'd navigate to the site through the proxy. At school, there were a few systems that hadn't had their USB ports disabled properly. All it took was a flash drive and the program spread through the system like wildfire via email. Of course, i could have done much nastier things if i'd had the knowledge. Since it was my last year in school and i "showed promise" for figuring out something like that, they didn't throw me out or even discipline me. The program itself was incredibly simple though. It didn't help that the monitoring system the school used could be exited via right-click in the notification area.

    Keep in mind that there's numerous factors to consider when learning development. I've found that the time of year can have a major effect on me. For example, from January through to September, i can code and design all day. Outside of that time, i find it difficult to motivate myself.

    Right now, i'm trying to figure out collision detection and pathfinding at the basic level (2D interface, and seeing whether shapes overlap) as i want to design an RTS. I don't want to use a dedicated game engine as it means learning a new skill set for just one project, and that i'm taken out of my comfort zone. I'd rather design it from the base up and have complete control over everything. Surprisingly, there's not a whole lot of code-only examples for my framework. I'm finding it difficult to even be bothered to try and work on it for this reason. I've tried a few different methods but right now, i just can't be bothered to spend too much time on it.

    And just so you're aware, even the most experienced solo developers check online for solutions. As you learn more, you'll be able to do much of your own accord and think from a different perspective, but getting inspiration and the basics to look at your current challenge with a different mindset is often accomplished by looking for people who've faced the same problem you did and improving on their solutions until you reach a point where you know enough about the fundamentals of the challenge itself to be able to create something that you understand and which works for your situation.
    [...]

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatketchup View Post
    Well, I feel horrible now. I still can't be motivated to do it. I tried to create some applications but I absolutely suck at it, I have no idea what to program in the first place, and all these video tutorials make me sleepy. Literally, I have problems keeping my eyes open, the videos just bore me that much. Maybe programming just ain't my thing, in which case I have no idea whatsoever what I want to become.
    I'd say it's still too early to tell. Take some legitimate Computer Science course(s) and learn more than just how to program in a specific language, because programming isn't the whole picture. It's certainly the tool used in CS and software engineering, but there's a lot more to it than just getting good at a particular language.

    To offer a different perspective, I actually find programming by itself incredibly dull. I've got a large calculator project involving partially compiled statements and fully programmable capabilities that's totally awesome - however the UX programming is some of the most boring, tedious and flat-out lame stuff I've done. It's not horrible, but compared to building the systems that work "behind the scenes" it's just dull.

    Just keep in mind that it's a discipline, and there's inevitably going to be stuff you have to push through to get cool stuff done. While I don't care for UX programming (as far as what I've worked with, that is) I'm willing to cringe a little so I can have something real humans can use (eventually). Take a CS class and see what you think after a full academic term.
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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Badpaladin View Post
    I'd say it's still too early to tell. Take some legitimate Computer Science course(s) and learn more than just how to program in a specific language, because programming isn't the whole picture. It's certainly the tool used in CS and software engineering, but there's a lot more to it than just getting good at a particular language.

    To offer a different perspective, I actually find programming by itself incredibly dull. I've got a large calculator project involving partially compiled statements and fully programmable capabilities that's totally awesome - however the UX programming is some of the most boring, tedious and flat-out lame stuff I've done. It's not horrible, but compared to building the systems that work "behind the scenes" it's just dull.

    Just keep in mind that it's a discipline, and there's inevitably going to be stuff you have to push through to get cool stuff done. While I don't care for UX programming (as far as what I've worked with, that is) I'm willing to cringe a little so I can have something real humans can use (eventually). Take a CS class and see what you think after a full academic term.
    Sometimes I'm just afraid I won't like it, in which case I don't really have any backup plan since I really can't come up with anything that I would find more entertaining. I mean, maybe a lumberjack, but I'm not sure I like the idea of living in Lapland cutting trees everyday then going home and playing computer games 'til 3 in the morning.

    Doesn't really help that the only adult I feel I can talk with stuff like this about is a guy that has problems settling with one job and says that some people simply are born to not like working with anything.

  15. #55
    Bloodsail Admiral Taurous's Avatar
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    Here's how I got into programming.

    I learned the basics of Lua and XML and managed to make a few simple addons for WoW. Addon development for WoW has great documentation and is a good way to quickly get that "zomg I made something that works" feeling. I then discovered Game Maker. It's a great way to learn game development, and using GML can give you a better understanding of how code works over Lua with WoW. Then I shot straight into C++, bought two books, and watched antirtfm on youtube.

    If you understand the basics of C++ (variables, functions, structures, and control structures) and want to get something more than a console window, I recommend using the Allegro 5 Game Library and watching all the tutorials on fixbyproximity.com. Allegro is great for beginners.

    TL;DR:

    Start simple. Google is your friend, there are tons of guides out there to figure stuff out.

    (except for up to date win32 API guides, they are f**king hard to find, so don't expect to figure out how to make a native windows program any time soon)

    Don't get your hopes up, programming is not for everyone. I'm one of those weird people that just enjoys sitting down and writing the backend(I said backend out loud a bunch of times and now it doesnt sound like the right word) of a game engine for hours on end without having any visual progress.
    Last edited by Taurous; 2012-11-18 at 04:44 PM.

  16. #56
    Not trying to derail the thread, but if anyone has any suggestions on what I should be working on now with C++. I've been working on console projects until this point. I know how to use functions,variables,classes,loops,arrays,pointers,references etc . On what should I be practicing on now to advance? I'm hoping to achieve win32 projects soon enough.
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  17. #57
    Bloodsail Admiral Taurous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nab View Post
    Not trying to derail the thread, but if anyone has any suggestions on what I should be working on now with C++. I've been working on console projects until this point. I know how to use functions,variables,classes,loops,arrays,pointers,references etc . On what should I be practicing on now to advance? I'm hoping to achieve win32 projects soon enough.
    I have yet to find a win32 API tutorial that isn't severely out of date. If game development is your thing, I'd recommend the Allegro 5 Game Library and fixbyproximity.com's tutorials.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Taurous View Post
    I have yet to find a win32 API tutorial that isn't severely out of date. If game development is your thing, I'd recommend the Allegro 5 Game Library and fixbyproximity.com's tutorials.
    Isn't game development much more difficult than Windows based Applications?
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  19. #59
    Bloodsail Admiral Taurous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nab View Post
    Isn't game development much more difficult than Windows based Applications?
    By game development, I just mean that you have the tools to make a game. A 2D game specifically. And it's only as complex as the game you're making, I can probably program Pong in an hour, although I have already programmed it before so I already know exactly what I'd do.

    Personally, I found trying to figure out how a windows program works to be painful and I still don't know how to get a basic windows program to run.

    I have, however, programmed Snake, Pong, a 2D top down square thing with a map creator, a sine wave viewer, the list goes on and on. (Trying not to brag, just making a point, nothing really to brag about anyways) The only hard bit is learning the library, if you can understand the library it shouldn't be hard to make something as simple as pong or tic tac toe.

    And really they aren't much different. Both a game, and any windows program are just loops that wait for input, then do something when they receive input. Only difference is that a game will be doing other things while it waits for input.

    EDIT:

    Probably should have added that my first response to you was actually more about the fact that you want to be able to create windows, and allegro lets you create windows. Although it's a game library, so it's kind of useless for general programs unless you want write a GUI library for allegro or try to find one.
    Last edited by Taurous; 2012-11-18 at 05:52 PM.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nab View Post
    Isn't game development much more difficult than Windows based Applications?
    In a sense. Typically, you'd think games are all about math. Yes, there's often more math involved, but creating the game itself is of similar difficulty if you're comfortable with the tools you're using. If your framework is fairly modern, creating a game just requires a little bit of creative thinking to come up with a "workaround". Example; The collision detection problem i mentioned last time, i solved it about an hour after posting that and it was only 3 short lines of code. This was thanks to my framework because although this "feature" of it wasn't really designed for collision detection in the way i wanted to use it, i've turned it into the solution to my problem and with no math on my part.

    Games are applications. All applications follow logic that is modified based on various factors. I guess what's most important if you want to create a game is becoming comfortable with looking at things from a logical perspective but understanding that loops will throw off what your mind expects (because our minds are chaotic compared to software).

    Just out of curiosity, have you got an application you've always wanted to create? Giving us something to work with would allow us to direct you. We won't take over your idea (or at least, i won't), but we'd be able to provide you with the knowledge needed to investigate it yourself (which will lead to many "EUREKA!" moments in the first few months of focused but relaxed learning).

    Also, never underestimate the value of asking for help. See, if i hadn't gone to StackOverflow with a coding question all those months ago, i'd still be struggling with the basics. Sure, i was given a code sample as the end result, but having it explained to me and explaining exactly what i wanted in the original question meant that i was given knowledge i can work with, up to the point that i can now help people who are just starting out (assuming we're dealing with the same language). Even if we're not dealing with the same language, the underlying code i use is mostly WinAPI at it's basis and many of the functions i know can be researched in just about any language and thus a solution can be worked together.
    [...]

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