1. #1
    Mechagnome MisterSoup's Avatar
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    Horde racial values?

    I can't seem to find a resource anywhere that actually goes in to what the exact EP values of each Horde racial benefit happens to be. Does anyone have these numbers on hand?

    I can see that most warlocks are choosing Orc as their preferred race - I'm assuming for Blood Fury, because Affliction Locks won't have the benefit of Command. I've been told that wands also tap into the expertise bonus, but wands are also bugged for Demonology at the moment, and we won't be using one later in the tier anyway.

    I've also read that Trolls are a solid choice for a Warlock, and that both Undead and Goblin are viable options. But which one actually will be the best option for now and the future, and how much does it win by?

  2. #2
    Mechagnome
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    From my own simcraft runs, my conclusion is that the classes are close enough together (except for BElfs) that you can choose whichever you like and not have to be worried about being called out for picking the "wrong" race (for PVE that is).

    By the way, simcraft is not modelling Touch of the Grave correctly (undead). I am getting about 1.5% of my damage from TotG while raiding and simulation shows it at about 0.7%.

    For Demo locks OTOH, I believe the orc racials make give it a 2k or so dps advantage over the next highest race. I haven't tested the races since late beta, so I can't be sure.
    A living Warlock = a dead everyone else

  3. #3
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scathbais View Post
    From my own simcraft runs, my conclusion is that the classes are close enough together (except for BElfs) that you can choose whichever you like and not have to be worried about being called out for picking the "wrong" race (for PVE that is).
    The racials all give, at most, about 1% DPS increase. An insignificant amount unless you want to absolutely min-max. That said I'll give my same opinion as with hit cap: either go all-out with min-max (orc) or don't let DPS impact your decision of race choice at all, but never say you are "half min-maxing" by picking a middle-pack (by, again, less than 1%) DPS race.

  4. #4
    im pretty sure the orc racial value will decrease once you have 4piece though.. since its cd will be lowered and it will no longer line up with the racial (except on the first cast ofc)

    being an orc almost doesn't make me want 4piece :/ or i may just go goblin for the passive haste once i have it

  5. #5
    Mechagnome MisterSoup's Avatar
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    Yeah, I thought of the whole "4pc t14 killing the DS line up" thing. I also play Affliction for just about every fight, so Command is useless for me.

    I'll probably play Undead, since Touch of the Grave is really pretty strong for a passive racial - or possibly a Goblin for the 1% Haste.

  6. #6
    i am new to locks and rolled alliance should i go horde? i cant tell if op is switching from ally cause its bad or making new

    thx 4 any input

  7. #7
    The Patient
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    Please do not change factions based on racials. If your not playing for top end progression it really won't affect your raiding ability, play what you like.
    I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

  8. #8
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    The racials all give, at most, about 1% DPS increase. An insignificant amount..
    Go run some sims and see how wrong this statement is.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6147097513#5
    A living Warlock = a dead everyone else

  9. #9
    Chardev imports into simcraft don't seem to be working right at all. What are you guys using to Simulate your current character as a different race?

  10. #10
    do those sim results take the fact that orcs also have 1% expertise when using wands? bc that's quite a dps boost as well, if you're using wands at least


    too bad demo doesn't work with those stupid things until 5.1 -_-

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sabsy View Post
    do those sim results take the fact that orcs also have 1% expertise when using wands? bc that's quite a dps boost as well, if you're using wands at least


    too bad demo doesn't work with those stupid things until 5.1 -_-
    I went from orc to worgen and yes I miss this, but i'll be using a sword anyway soon.. and dagger for pvp.

  12. #12
    Dreadlord kushlol's Avatar
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    I'm loving undead right now and could care less about a small dps boost. Raiding at a top 5 10man U.S. Level and having fun as a forsaken.
    My advice.......play what race you want, if you are good you will shine no matter what race you're playing.

    Edit: I got this amazing cloak from terrace last night feeling pretty good. I know totally off topic lol
    Last edited by kushlol; 2012-11-14 at 09:29 AM.

    Made by dubbelbasse

  13. #13
    Trying to decide between Orc and Undead for a progression guild. Both seem fairly close dps-wise. Not sure if UD racial is affected by Afflictions Mastery or not. But a lot of locks on WoL seem to be Orc so guess that's better, even for Aff?

    Also, Haxx @ elite heroic cloak! WTB actual loot. Entire raids 390+. Nothing's dropped for meh

  14. #14
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scathbais View Post
    Go run some sims and see how wrong this statement is.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6147097513#5
    I'll run my own sims (the 1% figure was taken from Dragon Soul, after all) but honestly the impact will lessen with time, and should be the greatest (by far) in pre-raid 90. That's because the racial, 2257 spell power on a 2 min CD, doesn't really scale with gear, since its a fixed amount of SP.

    And your sims (for Demo) were prior to command nerf and over 3 months old, last I checked, there were multiple bug fixes in both the sim profiles and the actual game... so your link is pretty worthless (I'm not saying your wrong... you're probably more right, but you have as much evidence for your claims as I do).

    For some napkin math before I can get home and sim, 2257 spell power is less than a 10% spell power gain (in low-end gear), that is up 1/8th of a time... that's at most (if you consider CD stacking) 2-3% and will only go down, not up, with each tier.

    I think Kush put it well, you can raid as any race and do well. If you want to do really well you'll go orc (of course), but I still stand by my statement - either full on min/max, or don't worry at all about a few % gains.

    You literally will notice no significant change in DPS if you race change. Of course the benefit is there, but the variance based on performance over even a month will be far greater than any gain.

  15. #15
    Bloodsail Admiral Tesk's Avatar
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    the Troll racial is OP, tbh
    And Already The World Looks A Little Less Bright.....

  16. #16
    Troll racial as affliction = insane at some points

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sabsy View Post
    im pretty sure the orc racial value will decrease once you have 4piece though.. since its cd will be lowered and it will no longer line up with the racial (except on the first cast ofc)

    being an orc almost doesn't make me want 4piece :/ or i may just go goblin for the passive haste once i have it
    Also kinda off topic but i was thinking once you get four piece that grim of supremacy would be more dps than service because service no long lnies up with DS only imp swarm does and does sims count the 2% dmg from all pets along with blood fury?

  18. #18
    Stood in the Fire NPSlow's Avatar
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    Short answer, orc.

    First of all, just because you can't stack Blood Fury with Dark Soul when the Dark Soul CD is reduced does NOT diminish the effectiveness of the racial use ability.

    Second of all, as Demo, the pet damage increase is great. Current FOTM sacrificial pet for affliction makes this racial worthless in that regards.

    Also, in any fight that has a stun (Halfus in Cata, Garalon in HoF) the orc reduced stun length is a DPS increase (for instance orcs could cast between halfus' stuns, etc).

    On top of all that, wands count for 1% spell hit as an orc atm.

    There's more than just Blood Fury.

    PS I'm angry they are just removing ranged AA's rather than fix wands.
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