CourtTrial - US officer killed 9 children in Kandahar

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

And Americans wonder why people around the world hate them.... I hope he gets the max sentence, don't need another wacky soldier on the lose.

Clearly we should also hate on Norway because of Anders Behring Breivik.

[Morsker]

And Americans wonder why people around the world hate them.... I hope he gets the max sentence, don't need another wacky soldier on the lose.

It's the Iraq War that made most of the world hate us, not some renegade soldier. Americans are quite aware of it; it's one of the reasons the political party that started the Iraq War is out of favor, and has been for years.

[stumpy]

Clearly we should also hate on Norway because of Anders Behring Breivik.

It's okay if you're killing people in your own country.

[Reeve]

Army prosecutors have officially requested the death penalty.

[Bakis]

Army prosecutors have officially requested the death penalty.

I dont agree with capital punishment but being what it is I'm glad they didn't let another war crime get away with a slap on the wrist.

[smelltheglove]

I dont agree with capital punishment but being what it is I'm glad they didn't let another war crime get away with a slap on the wrist.

it's likely he will die from old age. US military hasnt executed a prisoner in decades, and before that he still has a shot at a dim cap defense (no idea how strong that is, im no lawyer)

[Bakis]

it's likely he will die from old age. US military hasnt executed a prisoner in decades, and before that he still has a shot at a dim cap defense (no idea how strong that is, im no lawyer)

I dont really care as long as he spend the rest of his life behind bars if found gulity.
It might restore a shred of respect to the US policies and their armed forces.

[smelltheglove]

I dont really care as long as he spend the rest of his life behind bars if found gulity.
It might restore a shred of respect to the US policies and their armed forces.

i dont support the death penalty. but in a grander scale, taking him from the courtroom and putting a bullet in his head would probably help relations with the people of afghanistan immensely

[Bakis]

i dont support the death penalty. but in a grander scale, taking him from the courtroom and putting a bullet in his head would probably help relations with the people of afghanistan immensely

Doubt it, they want justice from their so called liberators, not some backyard execution just for show.

[smelltheglove]

Doubt it, they want justice from their so called liberators, not some backyard execution just for show.

maybe it would, maybe it wouldnt. i dont want us doing shit like that anyway, and we wont be doing it

[Bakis]

maybe it would, maybe it wouldnt. i dont want us doing shit like that anyway, and we wont be doing it

Having the majority of the the foot soldiers being underpayed and at the bottom of the barrel intelligence & education wise always will.

[ddk]

Assuming he is actually guilty then the only sentence that is justified is death, IMO.

Having said that, I think that the American military establishment needs to be put on trial here as well. It's well documented that modern soldiers are trained to disassociate from their consciences in order to pull the trigger and become an effective combatant. This goes back to WW1 where it was found that the poor accuracy of soldiers wasn't due to a lack of ability, but rather to the fact that staring down a target at another human, most people couldn't pull the trigger unless they purposefully missed.

Not only that, but when your job involves killing other people then some people cope by completely divorcing themselves from any moral responsibility or consequence. Again, this is well documented throughout the history of warfare as warcrimes by people who, otherwise, would live normal and uneventful lives.

How can we be surprised that when we create killers, that they kill?

[smelltheglove]

Having the majority of the the foot soldiers being underpayed and at the bottom of the barrel intelligence & education wise always will.

not understanding this. could you clarify please?

[Deleted]

Having the majority of the the foot soldiers being underpayed and at the bottom of the barrel intelligence & education wise always will.

Underpaid, yes. Uneducated, no.

[smelltheglove]

Underpaid, yes. Uneducated, no.

without broad-brushing, the armed forces here can be a "way out" for those in poverty and/or undereducated. it by no means the entirety though

[Bakis]

Underpaid, yes. Uneducated, no.

Very much so. Lets not live in some fantasy world where joining the infantary is nothing but avoiding flipping burgers or avoiding jail time for many of them. If their grades suck so much they need a break via the army, well....

[smelltheglove]

Very much so. Lets not live in some fantasy world where joining the infantary is nothing but avoiding flipping burgers or avoiding jail time for many of them.

i think you are operating on a false, outdated premise here. yes, it is a way out of poverty and undereducation. it is not a way to get out of jail time, and hasnt been for quite a while. those that are undereducated are actually expected to bring their levels up to GED levels at a minimum, and actively encouraged to pursue further education

[Bakis]

i think you are operating on a false, outdated premise here. yes, it is a way out of poverty and undereducation. it is not a way to get out of jail time, and hasnt been for quite a while. those that are undereducated are actually expected to bring their levels up to GED levels at a minimum, and actively encouraged to pursue further education

Im saying that whenever you need a large force of bodies you are bound to pick the less suitable to a larger extent. Whether that may be low education, avoiding jail time, poverty doesnt matter. You are BOUND to get less suitable people the more manpower you need simply cos the demands required are lowered.
One can just check up the number of war crimes, missconduct etc made by US troosp to lets say a country with a small commitment tropps wise like Sweden, Denmark, Poland whatever.

US infantery is a freaking joke when it comes to that. How many of them have been outside North America, how many know anything about foreing cultures other than some 10h course at Fort X?

The more less suitable persons you throw into a immensly complex situation, the more misstakes you can expect. It is really simple.

From a personal perspective I have two american irl friends, both served in the army as well as a handfull of swedish friends who served in Afghanistan. They all say that the the average US grunt was dumb as brick but that they held special forces to a very, very high degree of respect.

Who knows, I might be wrong. The track record for war crimes so far doesn't prove me wrong.

[Deleted]

Very much so. Lets not live in some fantasy world where joining the infantary is nothing but avoiding flipping burgers or avoiding jail time for many of them. If their grades suck so much they need a break via the army, well....

Without speaking much about the US military, over here 40% of recruits that are currently in RM training are educationally qualified to be officers and you cannot join if you have a criminal record. Oh, and that's "infantry". The whole "The infantry are the stupid and unwashed" is one of those broad-brush stereotypes that historically might've been the case. Given the current economic down-turn in recent times more and more university graduates and highly educated peope are turning to the military for a career.

Furthermore, being Academic does not translate to ability on the battlefield, sadly.

---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 11:58 PM ----------

One can just check up the number of war crimes, missconduct etc made by US troosp to lets say a country with a small commitment tropps wise like Sweden, Denmark, Poland whatever.

US infantery is a freaking joke when it comes to that. How many of them have been outside North America, how many know anything about foreing cultures other than some 10h course at Fort X?

The more less suitable persons you throw into a immensly complex situation, the more misstakes you can expect. It is really simple.

Probably more to do with the number of US troops being fielded than where they are from. You're just being openly disrespectful about the US military as a whole. As someone who's actually been there, seen them work and worked alongside the US Army and Marines - I'd just like to say they, on the whole are just as professional, organised, switched on and disciplined as any other nation I've ever worked with.

You seem to be defining education with suitability - a common mistake from someone that's never been on the battlefield and one that might apply in a commercial environment. Your ability to sit an exam and pass a degree does not make you MORE suitable to battle. I've seen highly educated people fall to pieces under contact.

[smelltheglove]

Im saying that whenever you need a large force of bodies you are bound to pick the less suitable. Whether that may be low education, avoiding jail time, pover doesnt matter. You are BOUND to get less suitable people the more manpower you need simply cos the demands required are lowered.
One can just check up the number of war crimes, missconduct etc made by US troosp to lets say a country with a small commitment tropps wise like Sweden, Denmark, Poland whatever.

US infantery is a freaking joke when it comes to that. How many of them have been outside North America, how many know anything about foreing cultures other than some 10h course at Fort X?

The more less suitable persons you throw into a immensly complex situation, the more misstakes you can expect. It is really simple.

that doesn't make them uneducated, or criminal. unless, of course, you are using the lack of knowledge of other cultures as part of that, in which case you would have narrowed to pool drastically, as most americans aren't really all that culturally aware.

yes, military recruiters know to target poor areas for enlistment, but that doesn't make the recruits deserving of the type of broad brushing you have been doing here.

but i will agree on your last point, more people = more problems, in and out of the military