" I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"
I read MMO champion, obviously, so I see all the headlines.... I know BL just cleared the last heroic stuff first...isn't that enough? WHY THE FUCK DO ANY OF YOU CARE!?
doesnt only the last boss of the tier matter?
At the moment, any guild that wants to compete for top 10 in 25m format pretty much has to raid 8-10 hours a day, have a big roster and most likely have an alt or two. Paragon handled their 10m race like they did with 25m race before. 10m guilds need to adapt or see these huge gaps in the future as well. Can't expect to keep on par with the guild that puts so much more effort than you, really.
Tortie - Night Elf Druid - The Maelstrom EU
Why do people care about gear funneling?
Crying because Paragon uses a 25man clear the first week to funnel gear into their 10man. While other guilds run 3 to 5 25man raids the first week to funnel gear into their 25man. Blood Legion is a prime example, they have 5 main raiders in each raid to get the maximum gear possible into the raid group. If you try to say what Paragon is doing is wrong while saying what Blood Legion does is okay, you're mighty foolish.
As for who is number 1 or what not this tier will always have a big * on it. With the bugged first boss which pretty much shut down the US head start so the "US got it first argument went out the window." People are also forgetting that 10man Ambershaper was bugged and had to be hotfixed. This put Paragon behind and they had to hours to realize it was bugged then wait for a fix to come in. After the fix it took them 3 attempts to get a kill. Most of the guilds that killed Ambershaper killed him in a few hours. Having to wait for almost half a day for a fix to come through so you can kill it will always leave the question of "If it wasn't bugged would they have killed it first."
Either way people will always root for or against guilds. Because of that this is becoming more and more of a e-sport, and it's a wonderful thing. Lets hope that this last content patch is perfect for both 10s and 25s and we can see who the real number 1 in 25s and 10s are.
OT: Paragon is still the best guild in my opinion but since they're 10 man now, I'd have to say Method>Blood Legion, if you look at the 2 guilds over time and not just right here and now. Can't say that it won't change but right now, my vote goes to Method (still believe Paragon has the best raiders overall though).
Edit: True that 10 man guilds could run 3x10 man runs for more gear but your average 25 man roster will still be bigger than your average 10 man roster. On top of that, you still get less loot from a 10 man raid than from a 25 man raid. But just to make it clear, I don't think there's anything wrong in funneling gear. It's the way it works and either you do it or you don't. Nothing unfair about it really.
Last edited by Danishpsycho; 2012-11-14 at 12:27 AM.
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The problem is: Paragon is the only guild I know that does that gear funneling thing in 10 man, so they have a huge advantage over the other 10 mans. Most 10 mans don't have the roster to raid with 2 25 raids to equip 10 people out of 50, maybe even one more 25 man raid to equip another 5 people to be ready to make changes in roster, its 75 characters to equip 15, like it is in 25 mans (hardcore ones) and thats what brings up the problem.
Of course you can say something along the lines of "Yeah, if you put more effort in it, you get more out of it" but no other 10 man guild CAN actually put THAT effort in because they have no 50+ man roster and you know why? Because they are 10 man.
---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 08:41 AM ----------
It is not about 25 mans, really, those 25 mans are like "famous" and got enough people that help them funnel gear, but no other guild but paragon got that luxury for 10 man raids. I don't really care if 25 mans get more gear, because they do anyway and I think it's okay for the effort they have to put in but as a 10 man you don't have that many people to support you because you are a 10 man.
As you said in the first paragraph you have to be really hard core to be in a 10 man with your purpose being to feed gear to the core raiders.
But you see thats excactly those 25s in the first page of wow progress are. So in order to compare anything you have to first be like them.
And those people that are feeding gear in the start, grab both achievements and gear faster than 99% of people in non hard core guilds as soon as race is over anyway. It just requires open mind commitment sacrifice and mutual respect between the guild members. Those things i admire in a 25 of that caliber.
People usually just snapshot their rank in that fake 10/25 man race and draw easy conclusions. It is very importand to know what you re talking about imho.
And for Paragon that Russian guild and some others (like Freak me Out) that try to pass that mentality in the 10 mans i have nothing but respect for what they are doing.
I dont know the people, but i respect how those teams are functioning to achieve their goals.
Regarding your edit
3X10 man full normal clears in MsV = 3x12 =36 potential upgrades for 10 people
1X10 man + 1X25 man full normal clear in MsV = 12+6X6=48 potential upgrades. You are right, it is not the same.
Still it is the way to do things in the 10 mans if you re going for world firsts.
It doesnt matter that Paragon still has an edge, what it matters is that you as a contenter did what you could.
And for those guilds at top 100, maintaining a roster with 11-12 top class raiders plus 3-4 top 1000 class members is really not THAT hard to accomplish having in mind that 25s with similar rank are maintaining a roster of 40+ people with the above characteristics.
Do note that Paragon does not keep 25 main raiders around - as far as I've understood, the people making them capable of clearing 25 normal is old members who have gone social, who are just helping out?
Not sure if true, but that's what I heard, anyway - it's not a specially employed tactic, it's basicly just helping out their old friends.
Doesn't mean that 10 mans can't run 3-4 normal mode runs just like Scrubbuster/Blood legion does, anyway.
Paragon doesn't really count anymore since they are 10 man
It's an advantage, but it's not unfair - if other 10man guilds want to be as cutting edge as paragon they'll level some alts, nothing is stopping them putting some extra time into trying to be the best they can.
All groups of smart, strong and handsome people, given their due respect whenever they grace the public with their presence. No difference whatsoever, only winners here.