Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst
1
2
  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Imreallybadwithnames View Post
    Nobody has ever bothered to explain what "healthy" means, in any certain terms to me, so I don't entertain arguments about what is "healthy."

    This is the closest thing I could find via google, most of the pics I got back for "5' 8" 125lbs" were women. http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/body...rete-kyle.html

    His before pic looks like a tan golem with a better dentist. His 2nd pic looks better, but still skinny, and I don't particularly care for looking at oiled up men.

    What are your goals? If you want to be effective at your sport, or just strong/athletic for the sake of being athletic, you need to gain weight(this is what I am stressing). You'll also look better, imo(no homo). If you just wanna look like you do now, and not excel at anything, keep doin what you're doin bro, I won't stop you. If you like how you look like, and athletic performance is not a priority, more power to you. You obviously know how to do this - because you're doing it.
    There are sports that require you to be around his weight you know. He is a bit tall for those weight classes but not too tall: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHKp6xK8Vl8. The guy who lost was 5'7" at 121 lbs: http://www.london2012.com/athlete/kh...dimer-1008314/. A 4 lb increase for 1 inch is not unreasonable. He apparently does MMA which also has weight classes at around his current weight.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by jbhasban View Post
    There are sports that require you to be around his weight you know. He is a bit tall for those weight classes but not too tall: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHKp6xK8Vl8. The guy who lost was 5'7" at 121 lbs: http://www.london2012.com/athlete/kh...dimer-1008314/. A 4 lb increase for 1 inch is not unreasonable. He apparently does MMA which also has weight classes at around his current weight.
    I'm very aware of the artificial means to give shorter people an advantage, known as weight classes. I'm of the opinion you should compete where you're strongest - eat, get big, get strong, keep getting stronger, when you're more experienced you'll find what weight class is appropriate for you. A 5' 8" powerlifter will be at his best in the 242lb or higher weight classes(but most people don't reach this level of advancement). Ed Coan(the most successful powerlifter in the history of the sport) was 5' 6" and 242lbs and squatted over 1000lbs in equipment that would make modern powerlifters laugh(he was also a genetic freak and deadlifted 791 @177lbs(just barely missed the weigh in for 165, had to compete in the 181 class), which implies the average man will need to be bigger to approach his #s, if it's in the cards for him at all). Donny Shankle is around 230lbs and clean and jerks 400-something at 6' 0", he placed something like #24 in his weight class at the olympics(weightlifting is a sport the U.S. is notoriously undedicated to). He clearly needs to get bigger and stronger and lift with the superheavyweights. He'll never be competitive at the olympics at his height and current bw.

    If you're looking for fighters, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Karelin - largely considered the greatest greco roman wrestler of all time, and the guy was a horror to behold, check him out on youtube. Imagine one 300lb guy picking up and tossing another 300lb guy to the ground. Yeah.

    Yes, 3-4lbs per inch of height is a good place to be for athletes. The goal is obviously not to get fat - it's to get big and therefore strong, or rather strong and therefore big. Some fat gain will be a consequence however, if you're already low body fat. If you're fat, a correct program should have you losing fat and weight for a while, and then start gaining overall weight while you continue to lose fat until you're in a normal range, of say 10-20%. 10% or lower is too low to sustain an anabolic enviroment, and over 20% is starting to approach unnecessary levels of fat.

    It seems the guys that are scared to gain weight are confused bodybuilders at heart. Even bodybuilders get big and strong first, and worry about their abs later. Only with drugs is it possible to keep your abs while getting considerably stronger(and therefore bigger). Unfortunately, the modern "bodybuilding" community is full of "men" who think that if they try to look like Jane then will end up looking like Tarzan.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Imreallybadwithnames View Post
    I'm very aware of the artificial means to give shorter people an advantage, known as weight classes. I'm of the opinion you should compete where you're strongest - eat, get big, get strong, keep getting stronger, when you're more experienced you'll find what weight class is appropriate for you. A 5' 8" powerlifter will be at his best in the 242lb or higher weight classes(but most people don't reach this level of advancement). Ed Coan(the most successful powerlifter in the history of the sport) was 5' 6" and 242lbs and squatted over 1000lbs in equipment that would make modern powerlifters laugh(he was also a genetic freak and deadlifted 791 @177lbs(just barely missed the weigh in for 165, had to compete in the 181 class), which implies the average man will need to be bigger to approach his #s, if it's in the cards for him at all). Donny Shankle is around 230lbs and clean and jerks 400-something at 6' 0", he placed something like #24 in his weight class at the olympics(weightlifting is a sport the U.S. is notoriously undedicated to). He clearly needs to get bigger and stronger and lift with the superheavyweights. He'll never be competitive at the olympics at his height and current bw.

    If you're looking for fighters, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Karelin - largely considered the greatest greco roman wrestler of all time, and the guy was a horror to behold, check him out on youtube. Imagine one 300lb guy picking up and tossing another 300lb guy to the ground. Yeah.

    Yes, 3-4lbs per inch of height is a good place to be for athletes. The goal is obviously not to get fat - it's to get big and therefore strong, or rather strong and therefore big. Some fat gain will be a consequence however, if you're already low body fat. If you're fat, a correct program should have you losing fat and weight for a while, and then start gaining overall weight while you continue to lose fat until you're in a normal range, of say 10-20%. 10% or lower is too low to sustain an anabolic enviroment, and over 20% is starting to approach unnecessary levels of fat.

    It seems the guys that are scared to gain weight are confused bodybuilders at heart. Even bodybuilders get big and strong first, and worry about their abs later. Only with drugs is it possible to keep your abs while getting considerably stronger(and therefore bigger). Unfortunately, the modern "bodybuilding" community is full of "men" who think that if they try to look like Jane then will end up looking like Tarzan.
    Geoffrey Mutai, one of the greatest athletes in the world in a sport that doesnt have weight classes, was 6'0" at 123lbs. Not everyone cares about lifting heavy weights. You really cannot state what someone's goals should be. This guy apparently is still fixated on looks (he is 20 after all) and thinks he looks good at his current weight. You may disagree with him but you know what? It doesn't matter what you or other people think. I am sure as he gets older he will realize that his desire to stay so skinny is not as important as he currently thinks it is. How many people are overweight in today's world? How many do you think are miserable due to their weight? I guarantee you that most adults do not place the value of their lives on their weight or how they look like naked.

    To state that weight classes are artificial is as contrived as stating any specific sport is artificial. Who cares whether you can lift a lot of weight? Such a skill is virtually meaningless in the modern world considering we have machines. Who cares if you can run very far or fast? We have cars and bikes and other machines. Physical skill is only as valuable in so far as you place value on it or as valuable in the eyes of those people whose judgment you place value in. Why not allow an inventor to enter these strongest men competition with their machines and see who wins given that they are utilizing their god given brain and dedication to science to develop tools to do the same thing as these muscular men? We don't because of artificial constraints on the sport. The sport is made in such a way that it artificially places the highest value on genetics of kinetic intelligence and strength and no value on other forms of intelligence. I fail to see how you can find such a sport more valid than a sport that places value on creating the most amount of performance at any given weight. BTW, your example of Karelin is not particularly useful. Everyone who wrestles knows that wrestling at a heavy weight class is different than wrestling at a lower one. A 120 lb wrestler needs different skills than a 300 lb wrestler. While the rules may be the same, the techniques used and the emphasis on various physical attributes changes dramatically simply due to the constraints of one's mass.

    I look at guys who dedicate their lives to lifting a lot of weight as fairly pathetic and engaged in a pointless activity ONLY because I do not value that skill. But I recognize my bias and still try to hold their dedication to some esteem as dedication, no matter where placed, is impressive. To hold your opinion of someone's values to be superior to another person's values is human but arrogant. My own goal is to stay healthy so that I can live happily and fit into modern clothing well such that I do not need to get clothing custom made and therefore pay a lot. I like the fact that I can go into a store now and know that the only thing I need to do to get clothing fixed to fit me is to get the seat of pants taken out a little bit. It makes shopping so much easier.
    Last edited by jbhasban; 2012-11-13 at 07:33 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by jbhasban View Post
    Geoffrey Mutai, one of the greatest athletes in the world in a sport that doesnt have weight classes, was 6'0" at 123lbs. Not everyone cares about lifting heavy weights. You really cannot state what someone's goals should be. This guy apparently is still fixated on looks (he is 20 after all) and thinks he looks good at his current weight. You may disagree with him but you know what? It doesn't matter what you or other people think. I am sure as he gets older he will realize that his desire to stay so skinny is not as important as he currently thinks it is. How many people are overweight in today's world? How many do you think are miserable due to their weight? I guarantee you that most adults do not place the value of their lives on their weight or how they look like naked.

    To state that weight classes are artificial is as contrived as stating any specific sport is artificial. Who cares whether you can lift a lot of weight? Such a skill is virtually meaningless in the modern world considering we have machines. Who cares if you can run very far or fast? We have cars and bikes and other machines. Physical skill is only as valuable in so far as you place value on it or as valuable in the eyes of those people whose judgment you place value in. Why not allow an inventor to enter these strongest men competition with their machines and see who wins given that they are utilizing their god given brain and dedication to science to develop tools to do the same thing as these muscular men? We don't because of artificial constraints on the sport. The sport is made in such a way that it artificially places the highest value on genetics of kinetic intelligence and strength and no value on other forms of intelligence. I fail to see how you can find such a sport more valid than a sport that places value on creating the most amount of performance at any given weight. BTW, your example of Karelin is not particularly useful. Everyone who wrestles knows that wrestling at a heavy weight class is different than wrestling at a lower one. A 120 lb wrestler needs different skills than a 300 lb wrestler. While the rules may be the same, the techniques used and the emphasis on various physical attributes changes dramatically simply due to the constraints of one's mass.

    I look at guys who dedicate their lives to lifting a lot of weight as fairly pathetic and engaged in a pointless activity ONLY because I do not value that skill. But I recognize my bias and still try to hold their dedication to some esteem as dedication, no matter where placed, is impressive. To hold your opinion of someone's values to be superior to another person's values is human but arrogant. My own goal is to stay healthy so that I can live happily and fit into modern clothing well such that I do not need to get clothing custom made and therefore pay a lot. I like the fact that I can go into a store now and know that the only thing I need to do to get clothing fixed to fit me is to get the seat of pants taken out a little bit. It makes shopping so much easier.
    Like I said, if he likes how he looks, good for him. I personally think more athletic people look better than less athletic people, and thought that might push him in the right direction, if he actually would like to get stronger. This is my opinion, it is not my argument. I'm more interested in athletic performance.

    That's an interesting point, regarding sports and their artificial nature. My main point was that it gives an advantage to shorter people, who have wider levers than their taller counterparts, at the same body weight. This is actually good for me, being 5' 6" myself, but I think, if the object is fairness, "weight classes" should be "density classes" - weight/height.

    Mr. Mutai was already very strong(and fast, which is largely a genetic trait that cannot be effectively trained), he was a genetic freak, just like my example - Ed Coan, who did very well in the 165, 181, 198, and 220lb weight classes on his way to 242 and 1000lb+ squats(with equipment that would make modern powerlifters laugh). Genetic freaks tend to skew people's impressions of what a good training program is, because these people can quite literally do anything and still succeed. However, if you want to be a better athlete, you need to get stronger. Strength is force production, when it comes to running you are putting force into the ground, to propel yourself through space. When you have reached your limit of how fast you can move your legs, the only way you can run faster is by getting stronger. You aren't likely to be able to move your legs any faster than your current ability, but you can increase the amount of distance you get out of each stride, by increasing your power production(power defined as strengthxacceleration). Like I have already said, the acceleration side of the equation is very difficult, if not impossible to influence, and is largely determined by genetics. However, we can influence the strength side of the equation, and this is where barbells come in. Every sport benefits from more force production, therefore everyone looking to excel at their sport should get bigger and stronger. There are other considerations, of course, especially for an endurance event like a marathon, but this is the biggest one, because everything else depends on it.

    I don't understand why you can't just buy clothes that are slightly big on you. Again, I don't know what "healthy" means; does it just mean not get sick and die? If that's the case, sure, that's a wonderful goal that everyone should strive to achieve. I'm concerned if that's a challenge for you.

    I find it interesting that you find people that train to be strong "pathetic", but you respect them! Apparently to be strong you must dedicate your life to it. Nobody who lifts weights has an alternate career or a family, no sir, can't have that.


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •