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  1. #61
    I am Murloc! Peaky Blinder's Avatar
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    Being serious for a second

    When we defeated nazi germany did we exterminate every single german?

    No we didnt cause we realise no race is evil just the people who lead them plus we realised we needed them to help fight a bigger foe the USSR

    and seeing that varian is now become a boy scout he will have no desire to see the orcs scoured from the earth instead try to form a working relationship with them and when the demons start appearing he will be thankful that the orcs are around to help save azeroth like they did during the third war

  2. #62
    on the second chance thing the elves nearly destroyed the world why are the elves allowed to live? why have they been given a second chance?

    so the orcs had a few wars and killed some people, the elves sunk a massive land mass most likely killing off massive portions of the population.

    then you have the dwarves who have dug out ragnaros and what ever is under the barrens (referenced in NPC text, is most likely a reference to lord of the rings but it still shows the dwarves have dug up what they shouldn't)

    as for the humans they are a mutation of their race why were they even allowed to live?

  3. #63
    Immortal Maklor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cenkiss View Post
    when we never give those to any other race?
    Because you are so wrong, race does NOT equal faction.

  4. #64
    Old God Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    yes....they are going off to die

    Its not like Orcs have grand strategies that could be ruined because they have a buncha old people with them
    Orc generally just charge in and hack apart whatever they see
    Maybe you should read a couple of WoW novels. Especially Garrosh shows a good understanding of strategy. And I never heard of the orcs taking their old to the battlefields just to have them die there.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    ummm how about no? archimonde and kj were empowered by sargeras himself one of the most powerful beings in the universe and hand picked by him to lead his armies.

    saying some orc is stronger then them because he cut off his ties to shamanic magic and opened a shitload of portals is kind of fullblown retarded. also you do know how he died right? a bunch of crazy demons ate him, archimonde and kj are the most powerful of all the demons.

    also.. how many times theyve failed? umm how about two times in the last say 25,000 years. THEY ONLY FAILED TO DESTROY A PLANET TWICE IN 25,000 YEARS. they have personally destroyed thousands upon thousands of worlds and species and their armies span thousands of planets.

    do you not know anything about the lore?
    Ussualy i ignore your brain emanations even if you reply in my threads.

    But here i gota answer.

    You think Gul'dan only opened a few portals and you tell me about "knowing the lore". That reeks of retardness.


    About the part with planets upon planets... it was Sargeras himself not those 2 failures. Try to read something before replying to me kid.
    Last edited by keksplace; 2012-11-14 at 10:01 AM.
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  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by keksplace View Post
    Ussualy i ignore your brain emanations even if you reply in my threads.

    But here i gota answer.

    You think Gul'dan only opened a few portals and you tell me about "knowing the lore". That reeks of retardness.


    About the part with planets upon planets... it was Sargeras himself not those 2 failures. Try to read something before replying to me kid.
    uh huh it was all sargeras not like kil'jaedan has been leading the legion since sargeras left and not like before that he was the one who decided who got to join the legion and its not like archimonde was the one who lead the armies of the legion during invasions or anything nope sargeras did everything.

    "Kil'jaeden (pronounced Kill-jay-den), a powerful eredar demon lord, is the acting leader of the Burning Legion. Selected twenty-five thousand years ago as the chief lieutenant of Sargeras, he was ranked above the now-deceased demon lord, Archimonde While Archimonde had led the Legion's armies, Kil'jaeden's agenda was to assimilate every race possible into the folds of the Burning Legion. Since the apparent banishment of Sargeras, he has assumed the role of supreme commander.

    Kil'jaeden was the architect of many of the great evils of recent history, among which was the formation of the first Horde that butchered the draenei and made war on the world of Azeroth, and later the creation of the Lich King and his Scourge."

    also again what else did gul'dan do other then average wow villain crap? he severed ties with the elementals which rose a volcano out of the ground, and he brought in island out of the sea and he insta aged a bunch of orc babies as well as raped draenei.

    none of what he did aside from raising the lair out of the sea was even close to apocalyptic and even then thats nothing compared to what some other mortals have done and not even a tiny spec on what some of the immortals have done.

    gul'dan was a good warlock but he wasnt anywhere near kil'jaedan the current leader and most powerful member of the burning legion
    Last edited by Immitis; 2012-11-14 at 11:13 AM.
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  7. #67
    Well mate.
    What Gul'dan did.. many things and no character that ever walked Draenor or Azeroth match one of his apocalyptic spells let alone all of them.

    Let me enumerate you a few things cos i see you dont know him very much do you?


    First: He raised a Volcano severely damaging a whole PLANET.
    Second: He raised a few Dark Portals every now and then.
    3rd: He destroyed AN ENTIRE RACE ALONG WITH THEIR CAMPS... and not only, HE ALSO TWISTED THEIR SOULS (as far as i remember Archimonde did something simmilar so we have the opportunity to compare, didnt Archimnde destroy Dalaran? Yes BUT GUL'DAN not only destroyed a city, HE ALSO TWISTED THEIR SPIRITS. His Spell dethroneing that of Archimonde by far)
    4th: At 3rd point we talked about twisting souls... Well he twisted the soul of Draenor equivalent of Ragnoros, corrupting him. Archimonde or Kil'jaedan couldnt do this. We know Cenarius, Malfurion with 2 faction have trouble brining down Ragnoros... think about it.. and Archimodne had trouble bringing down Cenarius.
    5th: He raised the Tomb of Sargeras from the bottom of the Ocean.
    6th: Draeneis at the peak of extinction at his call.
    7th: He created the first Death Knights... He is not a warlock only, He posses necrotic spells aswell.
    8th: Many years after his death his skull still posses so much power that the demons used it to corrupt an entire land (Felwood), He also corrupted Illidan transforming him into a DEMON and making him powerful.
    And many others i cant recall.

    Archimonde or Kil'jaedan cant corrupt anything, let alone TWIST SOULS, they only deceive and manipulate. Archimonde or Kil'jaedan cant rise the dead. Their only powers are their army and thats it.
    Them alone arent so powerful.

    Gul'dan's ONLY PROBLEM is that he didnt have an entire army loyal to him.
    Give Gul'dan the Burning Legion and you will see Archimonde or Kil'jaedan are nothing. But flies in Gul'dan's way.



    He is far more twisted and powerful than you think him to be, and i dont know why people think him weak... Just because he died AMBUSHED by tons of demons? Like that death would kill his apocalyptic acts.
    And speaking of that... it wasnt just a ton of demons ok? Sargeras himself appeared before Gul'dan, i think he personaly saw to his demise so Gul'dan would stop his search for that artifact.

    Now if you will you told me that youd give me an example of characters (mortal) that would match what Gul'dan did, please go ahead.
    And dont just name one, tell me cos im a lore noob right... tell me with examples, what did that character do.


    ---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 03:09 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    uh huh it was all sargeras not like kil'jaedan has been leading the legion since sargeras left and not like before that he was the one who decided who got to join the legion and its not like archimonde was the one who lead the armies of the legion during invasions or anything nope sargeras did everything.

    "Kil'jaeden (pronounced Kill-jay-den), a powerful eredar demon lord, is the acting leader of the Burning Legion. Selected twenty-five thousand years ago as the chief lieutenant of Sargeras, he was ranked above the now-deceased demon lord, Archimonde While Archimonde had led the Legion's armies, Kil'jaeden's agenda was to assimilate every race possible into the folds of the Burning Legion. Since the apparent banishment of Sargeras, he has assumed the role of supreme commander.

    Kil'jaeden was the architect of many of the great evils of recent history, among which was the formation of the first Horde that butchered the draenei and made war on the world of Azeroth, and later the creation of the Lich King and his Scourge."

    also again what else did gul'dan do other then average wow villain crap? he severed ties with the elementals which rose a volcano out of the ground, and he brought in island out of the sea and he insta aged a bunch of orc babies as well as raped draenei.

    none of what he did aside from raising the lair out of the sea was even close to apocalyptic and even then thats nothing compared to what some other mortals have done and not even a tiny spec on what some of the immortals have done.

    gul'dan was a good warlock but he wasnt anywhere near kil'jaedan the current leader and most powerful member of the burning legion
    read up....
    Last edited by keksplace; 2012-11-14 at 03:37 PM.
    For the TRUE Horde, the ONLY Horde.

  8. #68
    Fanboy alert!

    Just FYI, Kil'jaeden created the lich king, giving him all those powers like raising death knights. Death knights that are vastly superior to Gul'dan's version.
    Sure, Gul'dan was badass. Kil'jaeden and Archimonde are on a whole other level though.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by keksplace View Post
    Well mate.
    What Gul'dan did.. many things and no character that ever walked Draenor or Azeroth match one of his apocalyptic spells let alone all of them.
    Are you for real?

    The powers Gul'dan used involving all those events were given to him by Kil'jaeden. The Volcano event occurred when he read from the Cipher of Damnation, which was given to him by the Legion.

    Also, love the fact that you seem to gloss over that he got pretty much owned twice. Once when Ogrim obliterated the Shadow Council and made him beg for his life, and second when some lesser demons ripped him to shreds.

    Even his Skull was only useful for closing the Dark Portal back in WC2, and only became an epic artifact when the Legion reclaimed it and embowered it during WC3.

    Gul'dan was powerful, but to claim he was more powerful then Archimonde or Kil'jaeden is just being asinine. Archimonde alone DEFEATED the Horde, Alliance, and Night Elves. It was only through the trap set by Malfurion and the sacrifice of almost all the wisps in the forest that he was defeated. Kil'jaeden was only defeated because we caught him before he came through the portal entirely, had help from Kalec, and the final attack was carried out by the sacrifice of Anveena (who herself was the very essence of the Sunwell).

    Gul'dan was known for his cunning, and while powerful, he was also amazingly vulnerable.

  10. #70
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    This makes me laugh, because it highlights something amusing. Characters like Gul'dan and Garrosh, they are nothing of what they claim to be, but all it takes is some word play, and gullible people fall for what they convince them they are.

  11. #71
    Well from what I understand, The Legion is too powerful for anyone one race or faction to handle alone, so apprantly thats why we "need" each other
    Before Knaak got his filthy hands on the War of the Ancients lore and wrecked it with Rhonin, time travelling orcs, and furbolgs, the Night Elves and their benefactors the Ancients, didn't need any help defeating the Legion.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 08:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Belimawr View Post
    on the second chance thing the elves nearly destroyed the world why are the elves allowed to live? why have they been given a second chance?
    It wasn't the elves as a race. The ancients, dragonflights and everyone else saw this, only biased fans can't seem to get this through their heads. Why do you think their Immortality was restored by the Dragonflights granting a portion of their essence to Nordrassil if they were meant to be punished? Azshara and her lackies were a tiny minority of the race, working clandestinely to bring the Legion for their own power lust. When the first infernals started raining down on Night Elf towns, they came to Azshara for help and she sent them away, ignored them, content to sacrifice her entire race for power. Azshara and her followers, the Naga weren't given a second chance and never should be; they are kill on sight.

    It was the Orcs, as a race, which did all the horrible things attributed to their race, not minority of loose cannons. The had a choice, and they went down the dark path. "they were tricked" isn't an excuse, the Frostwolves knew better and they were the first victims of the Orcish insanity, exiled and their leaders murdered.
    Last edited by Justignoreme; 2012-11-14 at 08:08 PM.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belimawr View Post
    but he is also wearing demon tusks, holding onto demon artifacts has corrupted many people so his using them in his armour is most likely the thing affecting him, also if it is demons it leads nicely to the legion coming.
    those bones were in display in Org for years........they didnt effect anyone then

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 08:12 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by hunty View Post
    Fanboy alert!

    Just FYI, Kil'jaeden created the lich king, giving him all those powers like raising death knights. Death knights that are vastly superior to Gul'dan's version.
    Sure, Gul'dan was badass. Kil'jaeden and Archimonde are on a whole other level though.
    Kiljaeden and Archimonde are demon lords, which probably makes them some of the most powerful beings in existance

    But Gul'dan was impressive in his own right, he was seen as the most powerful mortal Warlock Azeroth has ever seen.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 08:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Before Knaak got his filthy hands on the War of the Ancients lore and wrecked it with Rhonin, time travelling orcs, and furbolgs, the Night Elves and their benefactors the Ancients, didn't need any help defeating the Legion.[COLOR="red"]
    .
    really? Because from what I remember even with all their allies, the Night Elves were very hard-pressed to even match the Legion, and the only way they could stop them was by blowing up the Well of Eternity and the world with it
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    really? Because from what I remember even with all their allies, the Night Elves were very hard-pressed to even match the Legion, and the only way they could stop them was by blowing up the Well of Eternity and the world with it
    Who said they facerolled it? It was a brutally hard and costly war, several Ancients died, thousands and thousands of elves lose their lives, but shutting down the portal was how they cut off the endless flow of demons into Azeroth, they managed to break through the heart of the Legion invasion and do it, fighting against demons and the most powerful magi loyal to Azshara. The explosion in the well was NOT intended, it was a result of the instability backlash caused by shutting down the portal so quickly. Malfurion more or less brute-forced it closed rather than "shutting it down properly" which is why the Well imploded.

    The point is, while the Trolls and the Pandaren shielded their land and retreated to weather the storm, the Night Elves were bearing the brunt of it, by themselves, and prevailed. Things are arguably different now, but, we don't need any stinking orcs who have already proven they'd side with the Legion for power, to help defend Azeroth. The planet isn't even their home and they are notoriously treacherous.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    It was the Orcs, as a race, which did all the horrible things attributed to their race, not minority of loose cannons. .
    and yet how many of the Orcs are veterans of the First-Second War....very few

    And the Orcs payed for what they did in blood. Hell Thrall even made them live in a desert to suffer. Something that became a bigger problem then what he thought it would be, and a major source of conflict between the current Horde and Alliance

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 09:53 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Combooticus View Post
    No we didnt cause we realise no race is evil just the people who lead them plus we realised we needed them to help fight a bigger foe the USSR
    maybe we should have just let the Nazis and Soviets destroy each other......
    Last edited by Dreknar20; 2012-11-14 at 09:52 PM.
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  15. #75
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    and yet how many of the Orcs are veterans of the First-Second War....very few

    And the Orcs payed for what they did in blood. Hell Thrall even made them live in a desert to suffer. Something that became a bigger problem then what he thought it would be, and a major source of conflict between the current Horde and Alliance
    oh thats crap and you know it Draknar. Thrall had his people live in a desert as proof they could overcome anything and be strong, which they did. And you know what made them strong back then? The Packs made between trolls and tauren, meaning they could survive because of the allies they made.

    You are using a bad context into what really happened, you have zero proof the orcs were suffering except something that may or may not have floated on a fan site somewhere. You didn't see orcs dying of starvation or thirst in durotar, so you know its bs.

  16. #76
    I dunno. from everything I see, Orcs seem to be a load of mindless sheep that will happily run round smashing things and fighting people unless there's someone telling them not to. Thrall always seemed like he was an exception rather than what your average Orc was like.

    I still don't get how the hell there are so many Horde anyway. Darkspear Trolls and Tauren were meant to be near extinction at WC3 time, Forsaken are just a small fraction of the people of Lordaeron, and most of the Orcs had been killed during the wars with just a few remaining in camps etc. And suddenly they're all everywhere and outmatching all the Ali forces, most of which have many established large cities.



    (but then I guess there were only about 120 Goblins that survived that boat and now there are hundreds of them.. but I've not followed the questline to know why)
    Last edited by rogueMatthias; 2012-11-14 at 10:12 PM.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    You are using a bad context into what really happened, you have zero proof the orcs were suffering except something that may or may not have floated on a fan site somewhere. You didn't see orcs dying of starvation or thirst in durotar, so you know its bs.
    “I honor my parents' memory—make no mistake!” she cried. “But what they believed was wrong. What all the orcs believed was wrong. We must suffer for it. The warchief understands this, as do I. My sister does not.”

    Zero proof?
    Do you even pay attention to Warcraft?

    Even your beloved Thrall admitted that living Durotar had some unintended ramifactions on his people
    Last edited by Dreknar20; 2012-11-14 at 10:28 PM.
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    oh thats crap and you know it Draknar. Thrall had his people live in a desert as proof they could overcome anything and be strong, which they did. And you know what made them strong back then? The Packs made between trolls and tauren, meaning they could survive because of the allies they made.

    You are using a bad context into what really happened, you have zero proof the orcs were suffering except something that may or may not have floated on a fan site somewhere. You didn't see orcs dying of starvation or thirst in durotar, so you know its bs.
    Really?...

    Well thats just weird. A leader you praise for his leadership skills leads his people to the WORST FREAKING PLACE TO SETTLE. And you say it's a fine idea. Well, I'm glad Thrall didn't suggest orcs to settle underwater.

    By the way, I suggest you to read up one of the leader short stories, found on Blizzard sites. Those are as close to lore as possible. One of them is about Garrosh, setting his foot in Orgrimmar for the first time and realising about the existance of a great wall between Horde leadership and the citizens. That Thrall, locked in his small fortress and talking to spirits and stuff, may had missed an important fact - orcs aren't living well, they have small source of water and food. Well, cons of living in a desert, agree? And it would be easy to say "well, it happens, it was the only decent place to settle, we must live with what we have" if there waasn't a GIANT FOREST just nearby, partly controlled by Night Elves.

    In my opinion, Garrosh as a leader (I'm talking about Cata Garrosh, MoP Garrosh is something totally different) proved that he was closer to an ordinary citizen, and that he cares. Campaign agains the Ashenvale, tho brutal, was successfull, and so the was expanse into Azshara. He did something Thrall couldn't do, but what had to be done.

    And Trassk, "they could survive because of the allies they made"... If that's your idea of the alliance, then Orcs were probably a giant parasite. Indeed, cooperating with Taurens and Trolls was a great thing, but laying all hopes of survival only in your allies is a madmans choice. I don't like the fact Garrosh turned away from both Trolls and Taurens, but the thing you suggest is just unhealthy.

  19. #79
    In my opinion, Garrosh as a leader (I'm talking about Cata Garrosh, MoP Garrosh is something totally different) proved that he was closer to an ordinary citizen, and that he cares. Campaign agains the Ashenvale, tho brutal, was successfull, and so the was expanse into Azshara. He did something Thrall couldn't do, but what had to be done.
    Thrall couldn't do it because he 1) Was not an asshole that was going to take land from his former allies and friends (He was still friends with Malfurion and Tyrande), and 2) Attempting to take that land was a fools errand. It was shown in the book Wolfheart the Night Elves won the war and pushed the orcs out of Ashenvale entirely with the help of Varian. Azshara was only taken because the Goblin's decided to settle there after Undermine blew up, which had little to do with Garrosh.

    And Trassk, "they could survive because of the allies they made"... If that's your idea of the alliance, then Orcs were probably a giant parasite. Indeed, cooperating with Taurens and Trolls was a great thing, but laying all hopes of survival only in your allies is a madmans choice. I don't like the fact Garrosh turned away from both Trolls and Taurens, but the thing you suggest is just unhealthy.
    That is great, considering that is what Garrosh is pretty much doing with the Tauren. Or did you not read Baine's short story in which building all his war machines caused the Goblins to basically poison what water supplies the orcs did have in Durotar? That sure worked out for him, considering he now has to force Baine to give him water from Mulgore.

  20. #80
    the answer too the thread title is simpler then anyone ever could image!!

    why do we have to save the orcs?

    cause an orc saved the entire fricking world!

    yes mr green jezus go'el the slave the earth aspect saved our butt, and to be thankfull your entire race didnt get blown off the face of azeroth the least you can do is safe the orcs so his kids have some orcs too hit on when they grow up.



    (ofc the name is a joke for those who didnt get that)

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