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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by tetrisGOAT View Post
    And casual gamers will not care, because they can play the same games at half or less prices.
    This is hairy territory even mentioning casual vs hardcore. It is not a hardcore gamer that goes out and builds a gaming rig and expects more than the game being playable and enjoyable, XBOX and PS3 already do this so has nintendo sega etc for YEARS. Truth be told w/ peripheral choices, and the ever growing collection of games consoles graphics cards etc just makes all gamers want the market to in somewhat produce quality GAMES over quality videos. CGI, cutscenes etc really arent gaming. The general consensus of video gaming is gameplay>graphics, let us also not forget its actually the CASUAL gamers who really see the commercials and go hell yea Ill play that, where as hardcore gamers find something they dominate at and keep with it, Unreal tournament 04 was played how long? CS:S how long? etc

    Gaming needs a standard and baseline that is what consoles do, they do not use custom pc's @ pro tournaments, to the point where everything is a specific brand model frequency etc, its all going to be leveled like pro sports at the most hardcore of gaming levels, so no casual and hardcore have absolutely nothing to do with this entire topic at all.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by vesseblah View Post
    Game developers don't want to touch linux because it's a mess of epic proportions. Before Microsoft brought out DirectX API Windows was in just as bad mess with competing graphics APIs and sound card drivers. What DX gave was well defined and static platform to develop on without having to worry about writing code for ATI and Nvidia cards separately.

    Linux is still in that swamp with 3-4 competing audio driver models and desktop environments and graphics drivers, and that is the reason game developers simply do not want to touch it with a ten foot pole. Valve actually does fix that crap entirely if they push for static Steambuntu linux that has always same drivers and same desktop APIs, giving developers one static version of linux to work with. It means that people not using Valve's version of Ubuntu will be screwed with the new linux games, but at least they have the option to install all required stuff that is needed for compatibility if they choose to.
    But here is the thing if you ignore the technical stuff.

    If a developer ignores Windows he will lose millions of potential sales, if he ignores Linux is will still sell as much because any potential buyer will have a Windows partition. Just look at the Mac and how it is a low priority for developers (not every company is Blizzard).

    If Valve went and put Windows on the hardware with standard hardware then it will be a different story (and a much better product). However if they go with Linux and literately start from scratch (and NO having a Windows emulator doesn't count) because non of the games work properly the whole project will be a failure. How many of the games you currently own actually work on Linux....

  3. #83
    I am Murloc! Cyanotical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    But here is the thing if you ignore the technical stuff.

    If a developer ignores Windows he will lose millions of potential sales, if he ignores Linux is will still sell as much because any potential buyer will have a Windows partition. Just look at the Mac and how it is a low priority for developers (not every company is Blizzard).

    If Valve went and put Windows on the hardware with standard hardware then it will be a different story (and a much better product). However if they go with Linux and literately start from scratch (and NO having a Windows emulator doesn't count) because non of the games work properly the whole project will be a failure. How many of the games you currently own actually work on Linux....
    the PS3 uses linux for it's core OS, the 360 uses windowsXP

    currently consoles are ported to PC using the xbox version of the game, because it's really easy, a port to linux would not be that far off, you just port the PS3 version to steam's linux, and from there linux users who want to use their own flavor of linux can deal with it

    and as vesseblah pointed out, games only run well in windows because of directx, prior to that you had to look on the side of the box and pray that your computer was compatible enough to run the game, otherwise you could be SoL, this was also when setup and install were two separate things, and gamers had to know the port, irq, and dma of their hardware

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  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanotical View Post
    the PS3 uses linux for it's core OS, the 360 uses windowsXP

    currently consoles are ported to PC using the xbox version of the game, because it's really easy, a port to linux would not be that far off, you just port the PS3 version to steam's linux, and from there linux users who want to use their own flavor of linux can deal with it

    and as vesseblah pointed out, games only run well in windows because of directx, prior to that you had to look on the side of the box and pray that your computer was compatible enough to run the game, otherwise you could be SoL, this was also when setup and install were two separate things, and gamers had to know the port, irq, and dma of their hardware

    Sorry but just because at the core of the OS the Playstation and Xbox use repsectifly linux and Windows doesn't change allot.

    Fact is if Valve position the Steam box as a console PC they will directly try compete with Windows.

    And it doesn't mater that during Windows 95 era you couldn't install every game or developers had to jump hopes to do X. Currently developers can ignore Linux and Mac and still achieve the same level of profit, fully supporting another platform won't change much except increase cost.


    And lets be honest for a moment, the dream of the hardcore fanboys is that if Valve brings out this Linux console then they finally can remove Windows from their computers. Seen quit a few comments about this on other tech websites.

    And if Valve focusses to much on online buying of games then any console they bring out will be a failure because retailers will refuse to sell it (PSP go). I saw a new aritcle a while ago that retailers refused to sell PSP GO because the only way you could buy games was online. And no....it is not enough to just support disc, it has to be the main way you can buy games.

  5. #85
    I am Murloc! Cyanotical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    Sorry but just because at the core of the OS the Playstation and Xbox use repsectifly linux and Windows doesn't change allot.

    Fact is if Valve position the Steam box as a console PC they will directly try compete with Windows.

    And it doesn't mater that during Windows 95 era you couldn't install every game or developers had to jump hopes to do X. Currently developers can ignore Linux and Mac and still achieve the same level of profit, fully supporting another platform won't change much except increase cost.


    And lets be honest for a moment, the dream of the hardcore fanboys is that if Valve brings out this Linux console then they finally can remove Windows from their computers. Seen quit a few comments about this on other tech websites.

    And if Valve focusses to much on online buying of games then any console they bring out will be a failure because retailers will refuse to sell it (PSP go). I saw a new aritcle a while ago that retailers refused to sell PSP GO because the only way you could buy games was online. And no....it is not enough to just support disc, it has to be the main way you can buy games.
    i imagine that the next gen consoles will all be download only, they are already heading that way

    the thing with linux is not so much linux fans being able to remove windows, but the ability to stay open and free on your computer, the current fear is that Microsoft will switch to a system like WindowsRT on PC desktops, where only Microsoft approved apps can run, and only when purchased through the windows store, and of course Microsoft will take a percentage of every app sold in the store

    do you really think companies like Blizzard and EA want Microsoft taking a cut of their sales, Blizzard is already slowly converting to a digital only company, Valve already is

    Valve has already stated that they don't like the direction that Windows is going, and while Windows8 is really good, its two steps next to the cliff of "bad for users"

    edit, Yes, Valve's intention is to compete directly with windows

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  6. #86
    For the record, they're not running an emulator to have Windows stuff run on Linux, ati87. It's a compatibility layer, which virtually every computer uses for virtually every damn thing. :U

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenvalley View Post
    For the record, they're not running an emulator to have Windows stuff run on Linux, ati87.
    Steam is planning to compile all their games into native linux code, not run Windows versions of anything. L4D2 they're demoing on linux steam is native code.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkenvalley View Post
    It's a compatibility layer, which virtually every computer uses for virtually every damn thing. :U
    No matter what fancy recursive acronyms linux developers came up with, "compatibility layer" is just a fancy name for software emulating software.

    Don't believe me? It's the bugs that actually prove it. If it was so simple to 1:1 map all API calls across the systems all games would run 100% bugfree every single time. But because it's not that easy, they have to actually emulate parts that can't be mapped.
    Last edited by vesseblah; 2012-12-12 at 09:11 AM.
    Never going to log into this garbage forum again as long as calling obvious troll obvious troll is the easiest way to get banned.
    Trolling should be.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by vesseblah View Post
    Etc
    That L4D2 is being hooked up to run on Linux natively is a very poor indicator, to be fair. Beyond that, I literally don't have time right now to check up on your claim right now.

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