1. #1

    Elemental: worth getting Mastery/Spirit socket boni?

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ghtleaf/simple

    ^He just takes the Int or Haste socket boni, so is it even worth going for the other socket boni on our gear?

  2. #2
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    It depends on your stat weights. Run a quick sim to get your stat weights, and it's a fairly simply math check; use the normalized values, and multiply them out; a +160 Intellect gem (value: 160), or whatever other gem plus the socket bonus. If, say, you wanted to use an Int/Haste gem for a +60 Haste bonus, that's +80 Intellect and +140 Haste, so for that to be equal to the same value as straight Intellect, Haste has to be at least valued at ~0.57 Intellect or better. For me, the scale factor is lower, so I shouldn't be matching that socket bonus.

  3. #3
    Herald of the Titans
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    He probably didn't need the spirit. Not to mention it's probably a better choice to go for 320 intellect over 160 int + 160 haste/mastery + 160 spirit/hit (which again, he isn't in need of).

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It depends on your stat weights. Run a quick sim to get your stat weights, and it's a fairly simply math check; use the normalized values, and multiply them out; a +160 Intellect gem (value: 160), or whatever other gem plus the socket bonus. If, say, you wanted to use an Int/Haste gem for a +60 Haste bonus, that's +80 Intellect and +160 Haste, so for that to be equal to the same value as straight Intellect, Haste has to be at least valued at ~0.57 Intellect or better. For me, the scale factor is lower, so I shouldn't be matching that socket bonus.
    20 off bud Also, saying that, wouldn't you compare the full 220 haste (haste from gem+ socket)? Or did you do that and forgot secondary stats were actually 160 and not 80? :P
    Last edited by rewn; 2012-11-12 at 10:02 PM.

  4. #4
    Dont know how to run "a quick sim", let alone a long one.. >_>.. yeah, I've read your guide how to use it, but I've still some ?-marks since english isnt my first lenguage.

  5. #5
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rewn View Post
    20 off bud
    The example was a single gem in a socket with a +60 Haste bonus. The issue was that I brainfarted on gem bonuses and was thinking +80 Intellect/+80 Haste, rather than +80/+160, so it should've been 220 not 140.

    That brings the value down to a more achievable 0.36 value for Haste, relative to Intellect, which is still higher than my current sims show for me, meaning it's still not worth it to me to get the socket bonus.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The example was a single gem in a socket with a +60 Haste bonus. The issue was that I brainfarted on gem bonuses and was thinking +80 Intellect/+80 Haste, rather than +80/+160, so it should've been 220 not 140.

    That brings the value down to a more achievable 0.36 value for Haste, relative to Intellect, which is still higher than my current sims show for me, meaning it's still not worth it to me to get the socket bonus.
    Yeh I wasn't disputing the point you were making. The 140 value though just had me confused at first glance

  7. #7
    LF someone who is good at siming. :/

  8. #8
    video guide for using simulationcraft taken from the demonist subforum : http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...imulationCraft (direct link to video)

  9. #9
    Simmed the following stats, using the guide and settings in your video, Bethan.

    Int = 3.31
    Crit = 1.01
    Haste = 0.83
    Mastery = 1.19

    Now it doesnt look as clear as the guy in the video made it out to be what to gem. ><

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Simmed the following stats, using the guide and settings in your video, Bethan.

    Int = 3.31
    Crit = 1.01
    Haste = 0.83
    Mastery = 1.19

    Now it doesnt look as clear as the guy in the video made it out to be what to gem. ><
    I'm getting similar numbers on my ele shaman. Lets break it down. Those stat weights you listed give you a rough idea of how much DPS you stand to gain per point of stat - so 1 int would increase dps by 3.31, for example.

    Now with the numbers you have, 3 crit would give you 3.03 dps, 3 haste gives 2.49 dps , and 3 mastery 3.57 dps. So if you had to choose from 300 crit, 300 haste or 100 int, the int would still trump the other two; in your case 300 mastery would be slightly better than 100 int.

    Looking at socket bonuses, the usually socket bonus is 60 [insert stat here] for 1 gem, and 120 [insert stat here] for 2 gems. To calculate the best gemming strategy, simply multiply the amount of stat by the stat weights above and add them together.
    For example, say you have red + yellow socket with 120 haste bonus on a piece of gear. Mastery is your best secondary stat given your sims (assuming you are hit capped) and so you would use a red 160 int gem (brilliant) and an orange 80 int + 160 mastery (artful) gem if you wanted to respect the socket bonus. Your dps from that combination would be :
    DPS gained from int + DPS gained from mastery + DPS gained from haste (socket bonus)
    = (160 int + 80 int) X 3.31 + 160 mastery X 1.19 + 120 haste X 0.83
    = 240 int X 3.31 + 160 mastery X 1.19 + 120 haste X 0.83
    = 794.4 + 190.4 + 99.6
    = 1084.4 dps

    If you were to ignore the socket bonus and use 2 red 160 int gems (brilliant), you would get:
    DPS gained from int = 320 int X 3.31 = 1059.2

    In that example, it would be best to respect the socket bonus and gem brilliant + artful.

    You have to essentially take it on a case by case basis. It gets a tad more complicated with blue sockets; essentially spirit from gems and/or gem socket bonuses means that you can reforge hit or spirit to secondary stats elsewhere. For you, since 3 mastery sims higher than 1 int, respecting the socket bonus on a blue socket may be worthwhile if it means that you reforge hit or spirit to mastery elsewhere. This is not easy to predict, especially if you use and addon like reforgelite which will do very complex reforges to put you at or near hit cap. It's easy for me, because all my secondary stats sim so low that 1 point int > 3 points haste/mastery/crit, so I ignore all non-int socket bonuses.

    I hope that helps!

  11. #11
    Forgive me piggy-backing another's thread here. This is my first tier as shaman main. I've always been moonkin, and have used Wrathcalcs. Still getting used to Simcraft.

    My numbers come back Haste 0.89, Mastery 0.91, Crit 1.35. Is this grain of salt? I find it difficult to accept I should be reforging into crit.

    Edit: nvm. Just noticed I had pvp glyphs in. Fixed that, and got results more in line with expectations.
    Last edited by Tinsoul; 2012-11-22 at 03:09 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ghtleaf/simple

    ^He just takes the Int or Haste socket boni, so is it even worth going for the other socket boni on our gear?

    i just take int boni, and i dont like haste! i like mastery and crit~~~

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