Thread: Welfare Epics

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  1. #1

    Welfare Epics

    In the current state of the game, do you believe it is too easy to obtain epic quality gear? I mean, simply grinding conquest and valor rewards players with epic gear. Mindless, boring grinding.

    Do you believe that epic items should only be earned from doing extraordinary things in the game? Like kill raid bosses on normal or greater difficulty? From high arena ratings? Etc?

    Do you think LFR brought a whole new meaning to the phrase Welfare Epics? Furthermore, why have epic items if they are not going to be used to defeat greater challenges?

    Just some questions to think about.

    Edit:

    Lets look back to TBC days. Now i know most of you will instantly yell "rose colored glasses" "get with the times" "f attunements" etc etc etc and all sorts of other carrying on. However, there is something to be said about the model in which gear progression worked, and how great it was to acquire gear back then.

    Back in TBC, multiple tiers of content were released at the same time. For example: Tier 4, and Tier 5 were both available from the day the dark portal opened and you stepped foot into Outland. Heroic Mode 5 Man Dungeon end bosses had loot tables with a guaranteed epic drop at the end along with a blue item that was usually very very good. (Quagmirran's Eye anyone?) So, along with the very very random chance of finding a world drop epic, the RNG epic item at the end of heroic mode dungeons, and the natural gear progression of raiding, epic items were still fairly rare to come by early TBC.

    It wasnt until they introduced justice badges to the game where now there was a currency system to supplement your gear from raiding. The key word here is supplement.

    The problem with epic gear now, is that it is now expected, rather than a rare awesome thing that distinguishes players and truly boosts character power. It is not anymore a highly sought after "experience," rather, It is just expected from the whole player base. Heroic dungeons were supposed to be the challenging content for the casual player base back then. Why? Well because heroic dungeons let people casually group together, experience something that was pretty challenging, yet doable on a casual basis.

    But oh wait Jaylock! There was no LFD tool back then, how could it be casual when I had to find people to group with? Well let me answer that for you. The whole definition of an MMO is MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER. The point of an MMO is to become part of a massive community, make friends, group up, complete challenges that would otherwise be impossible without the help of other people you meet. So casual has and will forever be redefined over time. 5 people, with less than an hour or two to do a dungeon is about as casual as you can get. But wait, with the implementation of LFD, the community entitlement shifted to a whole new level. Groups were no longer seen as something you make friends on your sever, and you group up and fly to the instance, and complete a fairly challenging dungeon, but rather expected short journeys that quickly rewards you for little to no effort.

    I remember back in the early days of TBC (inb4 rose colored goggles, nostalgia, etc etc) When I hit 70, I was quite overwhelmed with everything that I was now looking to set out to do. There was so much to explore, so much to gain, so many dungeons to open up, so much gear to be acquired. The blue items were exciting to acquire because they were from HEROIC 5 mans! Heroic, as in I felt really like a hero going into these dungeons, overcoming the challenges set forth, and coming out victorious with a chance at an epic item, and a nice new blue replacement item. I spent months gearing up my holy paladin in heroic dungeons. I loved it. As my character power was improving, so was my knowledge of what the expansion had to offer. I found out that Karazhan was where i needed to go next. So I followed the breadcrumbs to get my key to karazhan. I entered those dungeons, got the pieces, put them together, made the key, and entered Karazhan.

    Lets bring the conversation to the here and now: I hit 90, I craft gear, I expect to be able to enter ALL heroic dungeons the very day I hit 90. I expect to have full 463 gear for my current spec by the end of the second day of being 90. I expect to simply walk into the first raid. I expect epic gear, and when it doesnt come in the first week, i complain that the gear isnt coming fast enough. I complain that my extra free rolls on raid bosses isnt clear enough, and I dont get enough gear from my raid endeavors. I complain that the raids are gated. I complain that dailies are boring and grindy. I complain that im only decked in 489 epics, and I have nothing to do until the next raid opens. I complain, complain, complain, and then complain some more. (you get the general community vibe from this hypothetical player)

    The difference is, there was once wonder, and excitement to the game. Epic items were truly epic. It took players a very long time to get fully epic'd out, and then took a long time to slowly get upgrades to their set. Now, its no where near like that anymore. It is entitlement at its finest. Welfare epics refers to the fact that the community expects them, and expects them fast. Its plain simple entitlement. Its sad. Its truly a husk of what it formerly was. The game had so much flavor and flare, and although Blizz has some great artists, and they really know how to make environments look cool, and fresh, the community entitlement of the game as coined the term "Welfare Epics" themselves.

    To end a long rant, think whatever you want of me. Think that I am a super troll, and continue to bash my political party. Continue to flame me, and continue to call for mods to permanently ban me. Continue to be harsh with me in any ideas that I have. But know this, I truly enjoy this game. I wouldn't be here if I didn't. I enjoy the lore. I own 20+ Warcraft books, I soak up this lore like a sponge. I have been to 3 Blizzcon conventions, not only for Warcraft, but for Starcraft as well. I I'm sad that so many people look at me with contempt and disdain, when it is only my passion for a better game that drives me to continue to post here. I'm sorry that so many of you come into my threads only to bash me, and be rude to me, and call me all sorts of nasty things. It truly shows the type of person you are when you hide behind a computer monitor, and say things you would never say to someone in person. The game, is not Warcraft anymore. It is Entitlementcraft.
    Last edited by Jaylock; 2012-11-13 at 03:56 PM. Reason: Good discussion brought up more points
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  2. #2
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    It has always been easy to obtain epic quality gear.

  3. #3
    This topic has not been discussed 24901940312490239540 times over, it is both fresh and exciting!
    Currently playing MMO's: Wildstar --- Played MMO's before: WoW, Tibia, Meridian59, ultima Online, EQ, Rift, Lotro, GW2, AOC, WHO, EQ2, SW:TOR, ESO
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  4. #4
    High Overlord Sillicis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    It has always been easy to obtain epic quality gear.
    Vanilla says hi.

  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral Junblat's Avatar
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    A fresh topic that has never been discussed, EVER!


    Edit: ah lol its jaylock
    Sorry romney lost

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Sillicis View Post
    Vanilla says hi.
    Sorry, was AFK. Did I miss the boss kill? Gona roll on loot anyhow.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Sillicis View Post
    Vanilla says hi.
    while there wasn't any gear through points etc it wasn't particularly hard to get epics.

  8. #8
    Moderator Gehco's Avatar
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    No such thing as welfare epics. It'll just keep escalating if people wine about epics in LFR, then others wine that normal raids get epics. And yes, this has been a topic so many times.

    I've grown with that people get what they work for, LFR might not be hard, but that is why you don't get normal gear. If that is a problem, bring back 40 mans and only give Epics in them. But I don't care, we have different levels or epics.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Sillicis View Post
    Vanilla says hi.
    Molten Core with half the raid /afk also says hi

  10. #10
    I agree with others! Such a thought-provoking topic I wonder WHY NO ONE EVER BROUGHT IT UP BEFORE!

  11. #11
    Immortal Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    In the current state of the game, do you believe it is too easy to obtain epic quality gear? I mean, simply grinding conquest and valor rewards players with epic gear. Mindless, boring grinding.

    Do you believe that epic items should only be earned from doing extraordinary things in the game? Like kill raid bosses on normal or greater difficulty? From high arena ratings? Etc?

    Do you think LFR brought a whole new meaning to the phrase Welfare Epics? Furthermore, why have epic items if they are not going to be used to defeat greater challenges?

    Just some questions to think about.
    Doing Dailies every single week just so you can get to revered with a Faction is "Welfare Epics"?

    They did this system I think to make sure Welfare Epics are, well, gone.

    LFR is probably the only source of these "Welfare Epics" and even that doesn't have full iLevel Epics (489, 496).
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
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  12. #12
    Mechagnome tennesseej's Avatar
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    "Epic" is just a color for an item. You can still tell the difference between a Heroic Raider and someone who runs LFR.

    Plus if you don't like it, leave, don't try to change a good game.
    "... I don't want you to play me a riff that's going to impress Joe Satriani; give me a riff that makes a kid want to go out and buy a guitar and learn to play ..." - Ozzy Osbourne

  13. #13
    It depends on how you define easy. It's EASY in the sense that it isn't difficult. It just tedious and time consuming. If you consider time investment difficult then more power to you I guess.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    In the current state of the game, do you believe it is too easy to obtain epic quality gear? I mean, simply grinding conquest and valor rewards players with epic gear. Mindless, boring grinding.

    Do you believe that epic items should only be earned from doing extraordinary things in the game? Like kill raid bosses on normal or greater difficulty? From high arena ratings? Etc?

    Do you think LFR brought a whole new meaning to the phrase Welfare Epics? Furthermore, why have epic items if they are not going to be used to defeat greater challenges?

    Just some questions to think about.
    So what, do you want them to make all the current non-heroic raid boss items blue? same stats, just blue.
    Are you worried that other people have too many purpelz compared to you?

    Smells like someone has Special Snowflake Syndrome.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by tennesseej View Post
    "Epic" is just a color for an item. You can still tell the difference between a Heroic Raider and someone who runs LFR.

    Plus if you don't like it, leave, don't try to change a good game.
    Nah epic quality also has a factor in stat budget.

  16. #16
    Elemental Lord Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sillicis View Post
    Vanilla says hi.
    Molten Core wasn't hard.

  17. #17
    Immortal Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbfoundead View Post
    Nah epic quality also has a factor in stat budget.
    My Ret Pally friend who's still in green and pulls DPS on par with an Affliction Lock or Mage in Epics because he's skilled says Hi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
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  18. #18
    Titan Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    No, I don't think its too easy to get high quality gear. It's easy to get epic gear, but only the lower level 476/489 stuff and that's through LFR and VP gear. The higher Ilvl, as usual and as it should be, is locked away in Heroic mode raids.

    I have no issue at all with this current accessibility system, but I do wish Blizz would implement an alternative rep system other than dailies, one that takes just as long perhaps but at least gives you an option.

    If a video game developer removed tumors from players, they'd whine about nerfing their loss in weight and access to radiation powers. -Cracked.com

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    In the current state of the game, do you believe it is too easy to obtain epic quality gear? I mean, simply grinding conquest and valor rewards players with epic gear. Mindless, boring grinding.

    Do you believe that epic items should only be earned from doing extraordinary things in the game? Like kill raid bosses on normal or greater difficulty? From high arena ratings? Etc?

    Do you think LFR brought a whole new meaning to the phrase Welfare Epics? Furthermore, why have epic items if they are not going to be used to defeat greater challenges?

    Just some questions to think about.
    You mean like having others in your guild carry you and give you drops to gear you up... Such an extra-ordinary feat. Repeat wiping on the same boss over and over till you finally figure out his built-in weakness or work-around put in there by Blizzard for you to defeat the boss as INTENDED.... truly epic! Rolling on drops after the boss is defeated and getting the high number... MASTER OF THE F*'IN UNIVERSE YOU ARE! Yeah, gear snobbery is just never gonna die in this game nor will we run out of faux elitists.
    I'm rolling a Blunt Elf... That's a high-elf that likes to party.

  20. #20
    hardmodes and challenge modes are where you go for the glory gear and to show off your 1337 skills

    valor gear and LFR is for casual players to see the content and pick up some gear that actually feels like an upgrade.



    but oh look, it's another jaylock thread...
    <insert witty signature here>

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