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  1. #61
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Oh, Anet have added gear disparity and a lovely carrot on a stick, even if its not mandatory its there, like blizz telling us dailies arent mandatory, it doesnt matter, if you have gear disparity its still against the PR they had before release :S I guess only time will tell.
    I was wondering when you'd join the fray of circular arguments that involve repeating the same stuff over and over again!!
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  2. #62
    I was wondering when you'd join the fray of circular arguments that involve repeating the same stuff over and over again!!
    To be fair, we're only repeating the same stuff over and over because we've got a few folks taking the, "Say there are five lights!" approach to this.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    It is gated. It says so right on the blog.

    I quoted it and posted it like twice now.




    Content is gated. Mode Ex+ has a barrier to entry, mode Ex++ has a barrier to entry, mode Ex+++.. you get the idea.

    That is 100% gated content. There is no logical argument to made in contra. The developers say this so so directly with no ambiguity.

    Not only is that system gated, it is also by all rights bimodal end of game content.

    Diablo 3 has the same exact method of gating. Its a gear check.



    It does mean the same. Anet even placed an example of ascended gear being linear progression.

    They call it their gear progression initiative and cite specifically high-end play. It says these words right on the blog. In literal black text on white.

    I actually appreciate Anet not wiggling out of this idea and being upfront about it. Again, a spade is a spade. We have the developer not only telling use a spade is a spade but showing their hand openly.

    Wow... Content difficulty settings gates are now content gates? It is not the same thing fencers. Easy, Medium, Hard, Legendary, Inferno, Heroic, Superdeeduper Mode are just difficulties. They are not content. Mobs increasing in health is not content. Im pretty sure all the players who left diablo 3 didnt leave because the difficulty kept increasing after normal. It was because it was the same thing over and over again. If you bought a game and beat it and the developer announced DLC and you bought the DLC and all that was in the DLC was added mob hp and mob dmg. Is that New Content? or is that just an increase in difficulty?

    Anet isnt gating what they are selling. They are not putting barriers infront of new things. Come release i can go into any of those 9 paths know the strategy and kill the bosses, beat the objectives and get the rewards in my current gear. There thats it content cleared. Thats what Anet promised, that everyone can see the content no matter how much you play or how dedicated you are.

    Difficulty is different. Your playing the same map as everyone one else just with harder hitting mobs. If these mobs keep hitting harder then your going to hit a gear wall. What do you propose we do then Fencers. I would like you to explain how this scaling dungeon would work under the current gear system. How far would ppl get in difficulty b4 they had to stop?

    Difficulty Gate is not a Content Gate.

    -edit-

    k fencers im reading the blog and im having trouble finding where it says they are gating content. Infact the only thing in the blog that has 'gate' in it was mitagate and i found that word 3 times. =O

    I really wish someone would answer my question about how they would design an infinite dungeon that actually keeps players playing.
    Last edited by Zeek Daniels; 2012-11-13 at 07:58 PM.

  4. #64
    If these mobs keep hitting harder then your going to hit a gear wall. What do you propose we do then Fencers. I would like you to explain how this scaling dungeon would work under the current gear system. How far would ppl get in difficulty b4 they had to stop?
    1) If there's no way to get the system to work within the stated design goals of the game, then it's really probably not the best addition to the game.

    2) Your question implies that we'll have to eternally get more and more gear to advance further and further into this dungeon. After you get Ascended gear, will the dungeon still be infinite? Will you eventually need Super gear? And Super Duper gear after that? Then Incredible gear?

    This discussion is just mind-boggling to me. We've had skill equated to gear, we've had denials that gear-gated content is actually gated, we even have people apparently in denial about the developers own (new) stated intent. I just don't know where else this could go.
    Last edited by Bovinity Divinity; 2012-11-13 at 08:01 PM.

  5. #65
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    1) If there's no way to get the system to work within the stated design goals of the game, then it's really probably not the best addition to the game.

    2) Your question implies that we'll have to eternally get more and more gear to advance further and further into this dungeon. After you get Ascended gear, will the dungeon still be infinite? Will you eventually need Super gear? And Super Duper gear after that? Then Incredible gear?
    I got this Zeek!!

    As he's said earlier no, you just add better and better infusions where say agony ends up ticking 90% health per second you throw in some -agony dmg % (IE makes agony tick for less % of health not make you resist %s of agony) and that brings it back down to like 5% health or something so you can keep going.

    Once again, with how they have ascension gear and infusions + this dungeon they can essentially let all these people chase after an illusionary carrot forever without having to add actual gear progressions (obviously you increase mobs health also an add deal % more dmg to enemies in FoM to allow you to go further and clear earlier waves faster)
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    1) If there's no way to get the system to work within the stated design goals of the game, then it's really probably not the best addition to the game.

    2) Your question implies that we'll have to eternally get more and more gear to advance further and further into this dungeon. After you get Ascended gear, will the dungeon still be infinite? Will you eventually need Super gear? And Super Duper gear after that? Then Incredible gear?
    I actually already solved #2. Anet would not have to add super gear or super duper gear after. Just introduce stronger infusions then previously available That would allow players to progress further. But i do like how you brought up this bolded part. The dungeon never ends right? So why again are you doing it? You said it yourself even with ascended gear your going to hit a wall, and adding stronger infusions will only push the wall further, and further with stronger ones and further with stronger ones. Anet seems to be trolling here if you as me. The whole design of this dungeon is that of a treadmill, and no its not a gear treadmill, just a treadmill of pointlessness. The rewards for getting deep have to be really good for ppl to want to continue doing it but if the rewards are to good then ppl that dont want to do the dungeon will be furious because now your forcing them to participate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    Once again, with how they have ascension gear and infusions + this dungeon they can essentially let all these people chase after an illusionary carrot forever without having to add actual gear progressions (obviously you increase mobs health also an add deal % more dmg to enemies in FoM to allow you to go further and clear earlier waves faster)
    This is basically why this dungeon is trolling. I mean come on guys it has no ending. Yall are getting worked up for nothing and someone at Anet is laughing right now.
    Last edited by Zeek Daniels; 2012-11-13 at 08:06 PM.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    To be fair, we're only repeating the same stuff over and over because we've got a few folks taking the, "Say there are five lights!" approach to this.
    Without taking any position here, I have to say:

    I love you for this quote.

  8. #68
    Without taking any position here, I have to say:

    I love you for this quote.
    A little Picard (Well, indirect Picard in this case) spices up any topic!

  9. #69
    LF2M FoTM (dat acronym...)

    Must link Ascended gear!!!!!

    Welcome to 2007. GW2 now has hit and resist gear. And according to the blog post, I'm going to have to run these dungeons for WvW because that is not a small jump in stats that they showed.

    They just did everything that they preached against. The lack of sub for PvP/WvW is the only thing keeping me around at this point because the PvE is lackluster and other games do it better. Before Ascended gear at least you knew you didn't have to do gear grinds...

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    A little Picard (Well, indirect Picard in this case) spices up any topic!
    David Warner is awesome. He voiced the best video game villain I've seen (Irenicus in BG2).

  11. #71
    David Warner is awesome. He voiced the best video game villain I've seen (Irenicus in BG2).
    It's true. His voice is pretty much unmistakable.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    Yall are getting worked up for nothing and someone at Anet is laughing right now.
    Except, we don't know how this new, unnecessary, gear will affect WvW. Will this new, unnecessary, gear be craftable? If not, there goes the whole "craft the best gear in the game". The whole "horizontal progression" idea was just thrown out the window. There is absolutely no reason to add in a new tier of armor, and now there is nothing stopping them from adding further tiers. And before you counter with "they won't need to" or "they said they won't" need I point you to the subject of the ongoing discussion.

  13. #73
    What they should have done is just completely removed stats from every piece of gear and just let your 80 attributes at level cap be the maximum power you would ever be at. After all, you're only in this for looking pretty and having a casual experience, right?

    "Loyal fans" you are not loyal fans, especially with such a harsh outcry in the way you guys have been going on about nothing. "Well they lied to me!" Companies change. Never forget Anet is a company that is going to need to make money to continue. Just like Blizzard, Trion, Bioware, etc they have to try and appeal to the largest possible crowd. Die hard fans will support their company/game to their end. People who claim to be a loyal fan base, yet are up in arms ready to quit are not actually loyal fans. Their view of what they expected the game to be had changed, and it scares them.

    The reason I play GW2 is not because there is no gear grind, not because it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. No. I play it because I enjoy a casual game with my friends, who will never exclude me based on my gear, time invested, or anything like that. If you have people like that in your life, they aren't your friends, and I suggest you go find some like mine. I play this game because after my $60, I can do whatever I want with the game. I can do casual dungeons on a naked character for all I care. I can level an alt. I can buy some gems and get some cool looking armor skins. THIS is why I play.

    So long as Anet holds to the fundamentals that gear is not required to do everything in the game, there will be no problem. I personally have never seen X, Y, or Z difficulties of the same thing as content, nor will I ever. If you view it as such, that is your own problem, not mine, not Anet's, not Zeek's. Yours and only yours.

    This whole Ascended gear situation hasn't made me want to stop playing the game. However, this so called "community" has. People arguing over what someone else finds fun. You don't find that fun and that's ok. I'm pretty sure Fencers made an argument regarding people finding the downed mechanic in dungeons as fun and that being ok. There is nothing fundementally wrong with this new change, again so long as they follow what they have been up to this point of being able to do everything with what you got.

    sPvP is completely unaffected by this, WvWvW will remain largely unchanged because of its very zergy nature (In -MY- opinion). I'm fairly certain Anet doesn't even do any balancing around WvWvW anyway.

    There is a reason for Anet doing this. You don't like it, some of you may quit and that's ok. You don't have a sub anyway, so if you leave and decide it's not so bad, you can come back. THAT is the beauty of this game. Overall, I think it's better you are not here, but if you leave and come back, alright. That's your perogative.
    Quote Originally Posted by pacox View Post
    LF2M FoTM (dat acronym...)

    Must link Ascended gear!!!!!

    Welcome to 2007. GW2 now has hit and resist gear. And according to the blog post, I'm going to have to run these dungeons for WvW because that is not a small jump in stats that they showed.

    They just did everything that they preached against. The lack of sub for PvP/WvW is the only thing keeping me around at this point because the PvE is lackluster and other games do it better. Before Ascended gear at least you knew you didn't have to do gear grinds...
    You already have player-imposed gear restrictions on current content, so I don't see the point there.

    I've even seen it so far as to be required to have full Exotics to run with a guild in WvWvW. Here's the beauty of WvWvW, you can follow around a zerg and still contribute even on a level 2 character with only their dagger weapon skills unlocked. This new gear set doesn't change that. Skill, subtlety, and numbers are still what will dominate WvWvW. Gear has never, and will never be in that equation.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Jack View Post
    Except, we don't know how this new, unnecessary, gear will affect WvW. Will this new, unnecessary, gear be craftable? If not, there goes the whole "craft the best gear in the game". The whole "horizontal progression" idea was just thrown out the window. There is absolutely no reason to add in a new tier of armor, and now there is nothing stopping them from adding further tiers. And before you counter with "they won't need to" or "they said they won't" need I point you to the subject of the ongoing discussion.
    Did they ever actually need to have stats on gear at all then? What if Ascended gear was in the game from D1 and they said they had plans of adding another tier of rarity in the future? You guys are crying over spilled milk that hasn't even been poured into the glass yet.

  15. #75
    This wouldn't be an issue if they stated, preferably before launch, that they had a tier of armor that would be between Exotic and Legendary that would be added to the game shortly after launch for a new mode of content that was not yet ready. They did not. Instead, players will have to get all new armor, then use Transmutation stones to keep the appearance that they want. With them doing this now, what's to prevent them from doing the same thing in a few months with another dungeon?

    I'm just saying that it is unnecessary and a poor decision that undermines their own manifesto.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by pacox View Post
    LF2M FoTM (dat acronym...)

    Must link Ascended gear!!!!!

    Welcome to 2007. GW2 now has hit and resist gear. And according to the blog post, I'm going to have to run these dungeons for WvW because that is not a small jump in stats that they showed.
    Pretty sure that was a small jump in stats. I am still not sure how Gear is a factor in WvW when your either getting hit by 20 players at once or using siege equipment. The only place it matter is small skirmishes and those dont provide an advantage for any server unless its over a supply camp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Jack View Post
    This wouldn't be an issue if they stated, preferably before launch, that they had a tier of armor that would be between Exotic and Legendary that would be added to the game shortly after launch for a new mode of content that was not yet ready. They did not. Instead, players will have to get all new armor, then use Transmutation stones to keep the appearance that they want. With them doing this now, what's to prevent them from doing the same thing in a few months with another dungeon?

    I'm just saying that it is unnecessary and a poor decision that undermines their own manifesto.
    The bolded part is not true. All players will not want to do higher difficulties of FoM. Only players who want to do the higher difficulties will have to get all new armor. And at this point thats 2 rings and a backslot. And from personal experience i would love a place to get a backslot item cuz mines like level 25 or somthing.
    Last edited by Zeek Daniels; 2012-11-13 at 09:13 PM.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    The bolded part is not true. All players will not want to do higher difficulties of FoM. Only players who want to do the higher difficulties will have to get all new armor. And at this point thats 2 rings and a backslot. And from personal experience i would love a place to get a backslot item cuz mines like level 25 or somthing.
    I am quite sure the unlimited difficulty design of this dungeon will sprout some interesting challenge runs for people to brag and flex epeens about.

    "YouTube: Fractals of the Mists Difficulty level 10 white gear only run"

  18. #78
    Brewmaster Lazuli's Avatar
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    Ascended gear is so retarded. I don't see why they need to add an entire tier of gear when they could, just like in GW1, allow us to literally infuse our armor that we already own. Catering to the WoW-babies (no offense) that feel their character isn't progressing in power is not the way to go. That is not Guild Wars. This is a very slippery slope... a sad one at that. RIP GW2 this makes me so emo. The amount of lies coming from ANet lately is just disappointing as fuck. When in doubt, turn your game into a WoW clone I guess. Hope all you kids that cried about progression and lack of end-game are happy you get your world of guildwars craft at last.

  19. #79
    The whole thing I loved about GW2 was that I never had to play with others and that I never had to rely on others to get best gear in game. I crafted most of it myself and it was pretty cheap and fast. This was the sole reason why I'm still playing it. But now they went and ruined it all, they FORCING me to play with others and farm some stupid dungeon if I want best gear, and yes I do, because it DOES fucking matters. I do NOT want to lose to somebody ever again in any game just because he has better gear. I might be wrong here or we misunderstood how it's gonna work, but EVEN if I can craft this new gear through mystic forge or buy it from TP, it's going to hit RIGHT in my wallet which is 100% reserved for legendary and which is still pretty empty despite my best efforts.
    I'm not going to take this shit. If I can't have easy fast cheap best gear possible in game, I'll quit. I have a fucking xbox waiting for me in some shop, xbox with fuckloads of awesome games I have never yet played because I'm a pc gamer. But I suppose now that last good mmo turns into wow-like shit, I have somewhere to go.
    GW2 is a casual game for casual players with life. Hardcore gear grind does not belongs here. Forced grouping with others not only doesn't belongs here, it pretty much ruins whole concept of the game. They could've AT LEAST made a proper lfg tool, if we'll have to run dungeons for best gear. But they not doing even that...

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by pacox View Post
    LF2M FoTM (dat acronym...)
    Welcome to 2007. GW2 now has hit and resist gear. And according to the blog post, I'm going to have to run these dungeons for WvW because that is not a small jump in stats that they showed.
    There are only two rings and one backpack. A 10% increase of stats on these 3 items is what, less then 1% of your current attribute score? Do you really think that 1% more life or 1% more power will be a significant advantage?

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