Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst ...
7
8
9
10
LastLast
  1. #161
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    3,650
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    For me I never thought ascended gear created a traditional gear treadmill. It's just a difficulty raiser.

    My main problem with agony is how it is implemented for boss fights. The current dungeons have god awful mechanics and if agony is the only thing that makes the dungeon.... hard... then there is no hope for pve dungeons.

    I really hope they redo boss mechanics in the current dungeons. Though I did like the spider guy in story mode TA. It was basiclly a mery go round dodging spider bombs and using our kiting skills. Twas fun.
    Everytime i do that path my group is stupid and pulls him out of the room =(, to repay them for ruining one of my favorite boss fights i open all the eggs for them though...

    That being said i actually really enjoy the mechanics on a lot of the bosses, TA mesmer tree (last boss of middle, middle), i also like how they have some bosses that aren't really -hard- but they're hard because they have adds with them that make them super dooper hard (only downside is those mobs don't respawn), then you get the AWESOME end CM boss (the officer one) where conditions are everywhere and he's flying around as a plague cloud OMG!! did i love that fight!!

    The more i think on the fights, the more i really enjoy them, and their mechanics, but the more i think of how a few of them are just.... lacking... like the centaur boss in CM, or just about every boss in HoTW... or the rare dog boss in CM, and a lot of other ones where their mechanics are "meh" because there's only like 2 of them that -could- be really cool if they had more, but by themselves are lame, and then they have an EXTREMELY large amount of health for a boring fight...
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  2. #162
    The more i think on the fights, the more i really enjoy them, and their mechanics, but the more i think of how a few of them are just.... lacking... like the centaur boss in CM, or just about every boss in HoTW... or the rare dog boss in CM, and a lot of other ones where their mechanics are "meh" because there's only like 2 of them that -could- be really cool if they had more, but by themselves are lame, and then they have an EXTREMELY large amount of health for a boring fight...
    First change I'd make to the game to make PvE better....a slider that reduces the intensity of OTHER players' spell effects.

    Please, A.Net?

  3. #163
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    3,650
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    First change I'd make to the game to make PvE better....a slider that reduces the intensity of OTHER players' spell effects.

    Please, A.Net?
    Kinda like blizz did? Cause I wouldn't mind that... Then again I play on stupidly low graphics due to playing w/o a graphics card... So I won't notice it until I get a power supply...
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  4. #164
    Kinda like blizz did?
    A-ha...when I was typing it one half of my brain was thinking, "Yeah, that's a cool idea." and the other half was saying, "Uh, no, I'm pretty sure that sounds REALLY familiar."

  5. #165
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    3,650
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    A-ha...when I was typing it one half of my brain was thinking, "Yeah, that's a cool idea." and the other half was saying, "Uh, no, I'm pretty sure that sounds REALLY familiar."
    lol not gonna lie it was a good idea... except you know... the whole upscalling of YOUR effects, that part was just kinda stupid... although idk why it was even added in wow, at no point in any of my WoW career did i ever think "Well if this jack asses spell effect wasn't so flashy i would've been able to avoid that fire!!" where in GW2 i've though that and yelled that a few times...
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    Thats the point, how can you not see your getting Trolled. This dungeon is a metaphor for Treadmill. If you do it your going to hit a wall get more infusions hit another wall, get more infusions then hit another wall. How you guys dont get it is beyond me. Anet is trolling the "Progression crowd" saying "You want a carrot on a stick you can never reach? You want to infinitely grow your character? Well heres a little sandbox you can play in, and you can run in circles forever and ever. We will expand your sandbox every now and then but for now heres 3 pieces of loot you can treadmill for.

    Its really funny what they are doing.
    You guys are very naive. Do you really think people are going to keep doing that infinite dungeon just because it's there? Fuck no they aren't. They will do it until they get their 3 pieces of ascended that they need and then they will start complaining about being bored again. Yeah, you may be able to throw some anecdotal evidence of someone you know that can't wait to do this dungeon until they collapse but it's exactly that, anecdotal. The vast majority of players will not do content if there is no chance of a possible upgrade awaiting them. That's why it's so hard to find groups for some of the story modes since those don't even give tokens out. Same thing with groups skipping large portions of the mobs in the explorables. They don't have a chest for killing them and the odds of getting a rare or better are low so it gets skipped. Anybody that thinks large numbers of people are going to sit around doing an infinite dungeon that offers them no gear upgrades is delusional.

  7. #167
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    3,650
    Quote Originally Posted by Osprey39 View Post
    You guys are very naive. Do you really think people are going to keep doing that infinite dungeon just because it's there? Fuck no they aren't. They will do it until they get their 3 pieces of ascended that they need and then they will start complaining about being bored again. Yeah, you may be able to throw some anecdotal evidence of someone you know that can't wait to do this dungeon until they collapse but it's exactly that, anecdotal. The vast majority of players will not do content if there is no chance of a possible upgrade awaiting them. That's why it's so hard to find groups for some of the story modes since those don't even give tokens out. Same thing with groups skipping large portions of the mobs in the explorables. They don't have a chest for killing them and the odds of getting a rare or better are low so it gets skipped. Anybody that thinks large numbers of people are going to sit around doing an infinite dungeon that offers them no gear upgrades is delusional.
    Um... you can put infusion upgrades in the dungeon, which would upgrade them, which would make them want to do the dungeon, and infusion upgrades would allow them to get further too which in turn makes them want to play it more, then they can add more fragments to the instance, which would make them want to play it more, and they can do more infusions, and so on and so on and so on.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Matter View Post
    Let me ask you a different way. A/Net don't have thousands of developers sitting in the wings churning out new content. There is a limit to how much new content can be created. There are certain players (just look at all of the 80, 100% and bored threads that were created) who burn through content at an extraordinary rate. Spending a huge number of hours in the game. The only way that A/Net can cater for these players in some shape or form is to have a limited progression. There are only so many new mechanics that can be added to existing fights that keep them interesting in the same gear. Agony is a way for them to try and cater for those players without impacting the other players. I would like to see the Ascended items unusable in WvWvW, but that's about it. It otherwise shouldnt effect the rest of the players. Especially if they make the progression "stats" only relevant in the progression dungeons.
    Special mechanics/infusions/agony and stuff like that is perfectly ok, I don't think that anybody actually argues with that. The problem is that that are introducing a new tier of items which have better stats than exotics, although they promised earlier that there would be no items with better stats than exotics. Thats the whole issue.

  9. #169
    Special mechanics/infusions/agony and stuff like that is perfectly ok, I don't think that anybody actually argues with that.
    Well, I kinda have an issue with Agony actually, and I elaborated on it previously.

    The short version is that I feel like it's a major shift away from the gameplay being based on your actions and more toward the gameplay being based on numbers.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Well, I kinda have an issue with Agony actually, and I elaborated on it previously.

    The short version is that I feel like it's a major shift away from the gameplay being based on your actions and more toward the gameplay being based on numbers.
    From reading about this topic it seems to me as if the dungeon doesnt always have to increase the Agony dmg as the difficulty increases. You may still be taking the same amount of agony dmg while number of mobs get increased or mob health and damage get increased. Those could be your skilled gameplay to overcome the content rather then agony mitigation. (if you want a source its in one of the Anet blogs)

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Well, I kinda have an issue with Agony actually, and I elaborated on it previously.

    The short version is that I feel like it's a major shift away from the gameplay being based on your actions and more toward the gameplay being based on numbers.
    With the yummy effects of mudflation, gearscore - GW2 edition and pissing off a TON of casuals as if that halloween TP RNG wasn't bad PR already I can't think how anyone would think it is a good idea.

  12. #172
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    3,650
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    From reading about this topic it seems to me as if the dungeon doesnt always have to increase the Agony dmg as the difficulty increases. You may still be taking the same amount of agony dmg while number of mobs get increased or mob health and damage get increased. Those could be your skilled gameplay to overcome the content rather then agony mitigation. (if you want a source its in one of the Anet blogs)
    It appears this way to me too, which pleases me greatly!!
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Matter View Post
    I do think they are quite good at getting new content out there and do have a lot of good ideas. Just look at the Halloween event. They put quite a lot into it. I just think they underestimated how much time people would spend online and how used to the whole progression idea some people have become. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. I have my own progression (moving through the world at snails pace trying to finish all of the maps and events) and even that involves getting a full set of exotics. It's taken me 182 hours to get 3 exotics and 1 character to level 80. I think (maybe my big head getting in the way) that I was what they envisaged from most players. What they did get was a lot of people who already played MMO's (and had certain bias's because of that) and a whole chunk of people who had plenty of time to spend on the game in a very short space of time. That may have forced a slight rethink on their part.

    IMHO, the response to this would have been different had the included 1 ascended item in the game at the start and had some sort of release plan for new ones. I really like the idea of having something that sits between the exotics (which are a bit too easy to come by) and the legendary (which is really tough).
    I don't think they misunderstood that folks race to endgame and then raid and such. I think the thing is, with their advertising, they didn't figure those people would come to THIS game. They did come here though, and then raced to 80 and complained about no endgame...

    Now they're hitting that part where they have "loyal customers" that are between that "race to max then leave game" crowd and people like me that are just wandering around enjoying content. They do want to give these folks more stuff to do, without breaking any of the rules set down. The only thing to really wonder about is how this will make them more money, do they expect more gear treadmill lovers to come to the game?

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 10:45 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mafao View Post
    Special mechanics/infusions/agony and stuff like that is perfectly ok, I don't think that anybody actually argues with that. The problem is that that are introducing a new tier of items which have better stats than exotics, although they promised earlier that there would be no items with better stats than exotics. Thats the whole issue.
    I thought the Ascended gear was basically the stats of Exotic + gem/upgrade, with the addition of a slot that would allow you to put the infusion in, but most of the stat comparisons posted I've seen don't explain if they're including gem or not. If it is, then the actual Infusions may not even have direct stat boosts to them and instead just be agony related counters.

    But really, we'll find out soon enough, so lets see.

    I'm sure there will be someone grinding it all out within 2 days of launch.

  14. #174
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    3,650
    Quote Originally Posted by Svifnymr View Post
    I don't think they misunderstood that folks race to endgame and then raid and such. I think the thing is, with their advertising, they didn't figure those people would come to THIS game. They did come here though, and then raced to 80 and complained about no endgame...

    Now they're hitting that part where they have "loyal customers" that are between that "race to max then leave game" crowd and people like me that are just wandering around enjoying content. They do want to give these folks more stuff to do, without breaking any of the rules set down. The only thing to really wonder about is how this will make them more money, do they expect more gear treadmill lovers to come to the game?

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 10:45 AM ----------



    I thought the Ascended gear was basically the stats of Exotic + gem/upgrade, with the addition of a slot that would allow you to put the infusion in, but most of the stat comparisons posted I've seen don't explain if they're including gem or not. If it is, then the actual Infusions may not even have direct stat boosts to them and instead just be agony related counters.

    But really, we'll find out soon enough, so lets see.

    I'm sure there will be someone grinding it all out within 2 days of launch.
    This Is directed at your response to the first quote.

    It absolutely WILL make them more money because the people who were essentially pioneering the game for their friends were getting bored and leaving due to no progression blah blah blah, however, of they add progression (even in just one dungeon of the game, which I was shocked to hear from several of my gear treadmill friends) those players will be dragged into the game as well. I have friends who previously wanted NOTHING to do with the game suddenly become very interested all because of this one instance an the possibilities they see with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Svifnymr View Post
    I thought the Ascended gear was basically the stats of Exotic + gem/upgrade, with the addition of a slot that would allow you to put the infusion in, but most of the stat comparisons posted I've seen don't explain if they're including gem or not. If it is, then the actual Infusions may not even have direct stat boosts to them and instead just be agony related counters.

    But really, we'll find out soon enough, so lets see.

    I'm sure there will be someone grinding it all out within 2 days of launch.
    The picture they showed with the blog (the two rings) showed an Ascended item with stats baked into it and an Exotic with same stat type (2-3 points difference between the two totals, with 3% difference in the magic find stat) just slightly higher. That, and the description of these items, indicates the infusion gems will most likely be related to the Agony mechanic and not have other stat boosts attached.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Berethos08 View Post
    The picture they showed with the blog (the two rings) showed an Ascended item with stats baked into it and an Exotic with same stat type (2-3 points difference between the two totals, with 3% difference in the magic find stat) just slightly higher. That, and the description of these items, indicates the infusion gems will most likely be related to the Agony mechanic and not have other stat boosts attached.
    There will be offensive infusions however, so you can bet those will increase your dmg or somthing unrelated to the agony mechanic. Also notice how the ring slot is labeled "Unused Defensive infusion" This most likely means each slot of gear (pants, shoes, helm, etc) will probaly be limited in what kind of infusion you can slot in it. Rings seem to be Defensive only. And seeing as they are only releasing this one Defensive infusion first we can assume the back slot will be a defensive infusion slot as well. Offensive infusions may come on weapons but then again what are omni infusions for?

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Berethos08 View Post
    The picture they showed with the blog (the two rings) showed an Ascended item with stats baked into it and an Exotic with same stat type (2-3 points difference between the two totals, with 3% difference in the magic find stat) just slightly higher. That, and the description of these items, indicates the infusion gems will most likely be related to the Agony mechanic and not have other stat boosts attached.
    The difference is actually 5 Power, 5 Precision, and 3% Magic Find. That's comparing an Exotic Ring with an Exotic gem in it to an Ascended ring with an empty infusion slot.

    Now put that 5 Power and 5 Precision across 13-15 pieces of gear (offhand weapons), or actually a bigger upgrade thanks to back pieces being currently capped at Rare? Shift it from Magic Find gear to Berserker's gear and hey that's a lot of stats that you're getting, not by traiting differently, but just by having more stuff. That's not even touching the Infusion slot.


    And I really think Bovinity put it best with this one:
    It would have been different, yes. The reason for that is because there was supposed to be a hard ceiling in the gear progression. WHERE that hard ceiling was placed wasn't so relevant, just that it existed. If that ceiling had been Masterwork, Rare, Exotic, Ascendant, ultimately it was fine because that was the established ceiling, that's it, it's set. No more.

    When you set the ceiling, and then move it later, THAT will raise eyebrows. It's a very significant shift, and one that rightfully creates some skepticism. It was never supposed to move, but now it just did...so who's to say it won't just move again? Do we trust them if they say it won't move again, given the broken promise of it the first time?
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    There will be offensive infusions however, so you can bet those will increase your dmg or somthing unrelated to the agony mechanic. Also notice how the ring slot is labeled "Unused Defensive infusion" This most likely means each slot of gear (pants, shoes, helm, etc) will probaly be limited in what kind of infusion you can slot in it. Rings seem to be Defensive only. And seeing as they are only releasing this one Defensive infusion first we can assume the back slot will be a defensive infusion slot as well. Offensive infusions may come on weapons but then again what are omni infusions for?
    I had initially figured that was more about where the ring goes, defense item, offensive item, etc. But it might still be Agony focused in only giving powers that affect agony-using enemies to offset the penalty, who knows until tomorrowish.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    The difference is actually 5 Power, 5 Precision, and 3% Magic Find. That's comparing an Exotic Ring with an Exotic gem in it to an Ascended ring with an empty infusion slot.

    Now put that 5 Power and 5 Precision across 13-15 pieces of gear (offhand weapons), or actually a bigger upgrade thanks to back pieces being currently capped at Rare? Shift it from Magic Find gear to Berserker's gear and hey that's a lot of stats that you're getting, not by traiting differently, but just by having more stuff. That's not even touching the Infusion slot.
    The infusion slots are not going to help you outside the dungeon. Just like Agony will only show up inside the dungeon, infusions will not help or hurt you outside the dungeon. This is why they built in stats you would get from normal slots else the gear would actually be worse than exotics.

    Now since they are adding Offensive infusions and Omni infusions we know that its going to result in some sort of dmg increase. Its how they implement it that is key. They could just say +5% dmg done inside fractals of the mists. This would keep infusions from becoming "required" outside the dungeon, Or they could make it so that the offensive bonus is only active when under the affects of the agony condition which would also limit it to this dungeon only.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Berethos08 View Post
    The picture they showed with the blog (the two rings) showed an Ascended item with stats baked into it and an Exotic with same stat type (2-3 points difference between the two totals, with 3% difference in the magic find stat) just slightly higher. That, and the description of these items, indicates the infusion gems will most likely be related to the Agony mechanic and not have other stat boosts attached.
    Yeah, I saw my error when I glanced at the picture earlier I didn't note the extra lines of what a gem would be in the ascended. I thought it was +50, didn't note the additional +18 separate.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •