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  1. #201
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Because if for any idea, they can find someone who advocates it, that means finding that person tells them nothing about whether the idea is any good.

    Listening to that carefully located person who tells them what they wanted to hear isn't research; it's an exercise in confirmation bias.
    And you really think they implement features because only a few people want it..
    Where do you want to put the threshold of 'people liking' something before they can add it to the game?

    The only problem is that they are a bit naive.
    "Hey, let's implement X! It will be a really great addition to WoW and I am really sure that we can explain to other players that it's optional."
    They really underestimate the stupidity of a part of the community.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seezer View Post
    4.3 was god awful and has gone down as the worst content patch in wow yet. 3.2 even beats it. The Cataclysm hate started with people needing their diapers changed over initial heroics. That's all people needed. Molten Front hardly impacted cata's rep at all. Cata finished off horribly. Dragon Soul was an atrocity.
    Ooh, since when? Last time I checked 4.3 managed to put a stop to WoW's decline.
    So no, it hasn't gone down as worst content patch in wow yet.

    If you want to be objective about it, the start of Cata was the "worst" content yet since it made so many people leave.

  2. #202
    There are still 10 million active subs because of annual pass and the fact that the expansion is pretty new and people are still excited and trying it out. Give it a month or two...

    Dailies are terrible and I simply dont do them. This means I have nothing to spend my valor points on so they're just piling up. Justice rewards are just pure trash and I convert all my justice into honor to gear up for pvp. I've gone 4 weeks in a row without a single item from raid finder (and I cant get bonus rolls because again, I don't do dailies). Doing an average of 1-2 heroics daily since mop release I've got 3 slots upgraded and the rest is all pvp gear. If I want to craft stuff I need to go out and grind mobs for hours hoping I'll get some spirits of harmony (because I don't have tillers rep for the farm to get my free 12 per day at revered).

    Anyone who says dailies are optional is full of shit. You know what else is optional? Breathing.

    There's no excuse for Blizzard not making a good game that doesnt have you spending hours every day doing shitty ass repetitive tasks across multiple characters if you're dumb enough to play more than 1, just to be able to progress through the game if you aren't blessed by the RNG gods with decent drops, other than they just dont give a shit anymore because people will pay to play the game anyway even if they put out subpar content.

    MOP is just bad, and the only reason I'm still playing is because my friends play and there's no better alternative as far as mmos go.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Archaeon View Post
    There are still 10 million active subs because of annual pass and the fact that the expansion is pretty new and people are still excited and trying it out. Give it a month or two...
    And after "a month or two", then what will be your excuse?

    Dailies are terrible and I simply dont do them. This means I have nothing to spend my valor points on so they're just piling up. Justice rewards are just pure trash and I convert all my justice into honor to gear up for pvp. I've gone 4 weeks in a row without a single item from raid finder (and I cant get bonus rolls because again, I don't do dailies). Doing an average of 1-2 heroics daily since mop release I've got 3 slots upgraded and the rest is all pvp gear. If I want to craft stuff I need to go out and grind mobs for hours hoping I'll get some spirits of harmony (because I don't have tillers rep for the farm to get my free 12 per day at revered).
    Whatever happened to playing a game for fun? You don't NEED to get phat lewtz to have fun, do you?

    Anyone who says dailies are optional is full of shit. You know what else is optional? Breathing.
    What the hell does this mean? You know what is optional? Eating cereal. Did I do it right?

    There's no excuse for Blizzard not making a good game that doesnt have you spending hours every day doing shitty ass repetitive tasks across multiple characters if you're dumb enough to play more than 1, just to be able to progress through the game if you aren't blessed by the RNG gods with decent drops, other than they just dont give a shit anymore because people will pay to play the game anyway even if they put out subpar content.
    I'm sorry they're not catering to what you specifically want. There's so many things wrong with this paragraph, but I'll try to address them.

    There's no excuse for Blizzard not making a good game
    Subjective.

    There's no excuse for Blizzard not making a good game that doesnt have you spending hours every day doing shitty ass repetitive tasks across multiple characters
    Hmm, subjective.

    if you're dumb enough to play more than 1
    Personal attack.

    just to be able to progress through the game if you aren't blessed by the RNG gods with decent drops
    Again, you don't need an iLevel of 4098098982432 to have fun, or be effective in your role.

    other than they just dont give a shit anymore
    What would they gain from not giving a shit? Brilliant strategy, not caring....yeah...

    because people will pay to play the game anyway even if they put out subpar content.
    Subjective, and, this just in: if you hate it, stop paying. That is how you can "wake them up", and stop them from producing "shitty content". But then again...

    and the only reason I'm still playing is because my friends play and there's no better alternative as far as mmos go.
    You're still paying for it. So...continue to play a game that is not fun, repetitive, bad, they don't care about, mandatory, and many other things...

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by isadorr View Post
    It seems from your posts that you want everything nerfed? Dailies,raids,etc. Do you do anything that is a challenge besides whining that game designers have ego's because they produce raid bosses that are too hard for your one last firing synapse? From all of your posts i only see a whiny child lashing out because he isn't picked for the games and has to sit and watch people with actual heart beats complete the tier easily. I mean every post whining about a difficulty in every aspect of the game? Why do you even play? Hello Kitty was made for you, go give it a shot and make sure to post what nerfs are needed for you to handle the content.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 10:02 PM ----------



    This is what sets you apart from the many applications good raiding guilds receive daily. Do you have most of the pieces that you could get on your own? Most applicants do that apply to a good raiding guild. If you don't then usually we stop right there and ask you why. Is your crafting maxed and do you have all of the pieces you could make? Are you getting rep with the correct factions for your class and spec. If someone quits on something as simple as dailies then how are they going to push progression and take the time to know boss fights? Will they know their class/spec?Reforging and so on. Doing dailies is a small part of raiding compared to grinding spirits at night to make gear for guildies or running alt runs to gear alts since melee is not favorable on most heroic content.

    You seem to have a very stupid idea behind what raiding commitment is. I would only ever raid semi hardcore not hardcore pushing for realm firsts. I'm not interested in any of those trivial achieves. I raid because it's fun for me wiping or not and how I do dailies has absolutely nothing to do with raiding and nor should it. So I'm sorry but I have to disagree, dailies have NOTHING to do with raiding.
    "When life gives you lemons, don't make Lemonade! You make life take the lemons back. Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons!" - Cave Johnson

  5. #205
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archaeon View Post
    There are still 10 million active subs because of annual pass and the fact that the expansion is pretty new and people are still excited and trying it out. Give it a month or two...
    That argument loses it power if people keep using that for over 4 years.

    "Yeah, it only has a lot of subs due to X. Just wait and it will drop!"
    We're 48 months later and they still haven't dropped in a significant amount..

    Dailies are terrible and I simply dont do them. This means I have nothing to spend my valor points on so they're just piling up. Justice rewards are just pure trash and I convert all my justice into honor to gear up for pvp. I've gone 4 weeks in a row without a single item from raid finder (and I cant get bonus rolls because again, I don't do dailies). Doing an average of 1-2 heroics daily since mop release I've got 3 slots upgraded and the rest is all pvp gear. If I want to craft stuff I need to go out and grind mobs for hours hoping I'll get some spirits of harmony (because I don't have tillers rep for the farm to get my free 12 per day at revered).

    Anyone who says dailies are optional is full of shit. You know what else is optional? Breathing.

    There's no excuse for Blizzard not making a good game that doesnt have you spending hours every day doing shitty ass repetitive tasks across multiple characters if you're dumb enough to play more than 1, just to be able to progress through the game if you aren't blessed by the RNG gods with decent drops, other than they just dont give a shit anymore because people will pay to play the game anyway even if they put out subpar content.

    MOP is just bad, and the only reason I'm still playing is because my friends play and there's no better alternative as far as mmos go.
    So they are not optional but still you chose the option of not doing them? Your logic makes no sense.

    PS. You just have bad luck in LFR.
    I have had 6 drops in the three weeks that I am doing LFR and 1 drop from the Sha.

  6. #206
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjolnir1122 View Post
    Blizzard just reported their numbers (not exact numbers), saying that in Q3, they are now over 10 million subs again, picking up 1 million subs in China I believe. That means that WoW is sitting on approximately 11 million subs, maybe more. WoW's peak was in Wrath, where it had 12 million subs. There are a number of MMO's out there right now who are sitting at around 1 million subs, or even less, and are doing very well for themselves. Sadly, City of Heroes is closing it's servers in November, but considering it's one of the older MMO's out there, it's done pretty damn well for itself.
    Right... its time someone explained the FACTS around this common misconception on SUBSCRIPTIONS...!!!

    Its very important that people understand the total figure that Blizzard release in their financial quarterly reports is not SUBSCRIPTIONS as u and i understand them in USA and Europe. The fact of the matter is that EU and USA purchase thier Wow gametime totally differently to Asia and this total figure of 9-12million SUBSCRIBERS is in fact a total misnoma!

    And heres why...

    In EU and USA the vast majority of Wow players will subscribe for the game using a subscription method whereby we signup to paying a monthly amount of money for a selected amount of time by a 'direct debit' system which is usually from a bank account or credit card. This is how most people TOTALLY MISTAKENLY assume it works in Asia... IT DOESNT!!!!

    Blizzard themselves actually have to pretty much GUESS what the sub numbers are in Asia because they dont subscribe in the traditional sense!!!

    Asians, especially in China, all pay for any of their games with whats called 'Gametime cards' this involves going to their game store (online or on the highstreet) and obtaining a card with a code on it. This code is entered into Wow and u have purchased a fixed amount of time to play the game.

    Secondly, i can remember seeing a video interview with a senior member of Blizzard (might have been Mike Morhaim) discussing this exact issue and in that interview he made the point that EU actually currently has around 1.5mill subs and USA around 3mill the rest is thier ESTIMATED amount from Asia and the rest of the world using game cards. Going from memory, i think EU peaked at around 3-4mill Subs and USA 7-8mill subs back in Wrath and this was back when Asian Wow subs were very small.

    Now anyone with a brain can see that this ESTIMATED figure of Asian 'subscriptions' is open to manipulation and especially on a business and corporate level where a company wants to promote healtheir accounts every year. There has been plenty of speculation at market level that Blizzard/Activision themselves purchase bulk of these gamercards to artificially manipulate their 'subscription' total. Im not in anyway suggesting that they actually do this but other game companies have been caught re-handed doing this in the past... remember that.

    Basically back in wrath when Wow had 12mill subs 90% of those subs were easily traced subs from EU and USA, basically around 10mill subs EU and USA. The total Subs figure of 10mill right now has only around 50% in EU and USA with the other 50% in Asia. And from my explanation above that means the Asian 50% are not even real sSubscriptions anyway... theyre gamercards!!!

    Yep and that also means EU and USA Wow market has shrunk MASSIVELY.

    Dont forget corporate business have been manipulating figures since before any of us were born... this total Subs number we all discuss so often is no different
    Last edited by Endemonadia; 2012-11-14 at 10:34 AM.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    That argument loses it power if people keep using that for over 4 years.

    "Yeah, it only has a lot of subs due to X. Just wait and it will drop!"
    We're 48 months later and they still haven't dropped in a significant amount..

    So they are not optional but still you chose the option of not doing them? Your logic makes no sense.

    PS. You just have bad luck in LFR.
    I have had 6 drops in the three weeks that I am doing LFR and 1 drop from the Sha.
    We're talking about MOP last time I checked. I don't know where you got this 4 years argument from. The expansion has been out for 2 months now and so far it's been a less than stellar experience.

    They're optional in the same sense that going to work to pay the bills is optional. You can choose to not work and live on the street but that means not having a roof over your head, or food etc. I dislike dailies enough that not having access to most content in MOP is a price I'm willing to pay. It doesn't make it any less "mandatory" in order to get the most out of the expansion though.

    And to Icedwarrior:

    Saying "dumb enough to play more than 1 character" is hardly a personal attack. I'm simply pointing out that you're punished even more (as I am since I also play multiple characters), because it means that if you DO decide to do dailies, then your time spent doing them multiplies. I only pvp on my alt so I care even less about dailies on him, but to someone who intends to have access to all factions on all characters, just thinking of the endless amount of dailies required to achieve that is beyond me.

    As for the rest of your points, yes my post is highly subjective. Does that mean that there aren't other people that agree with me? Just because a lot of people are satisfied by the direction Blizzard is taking WoW, it doesn't mean the rest of us need to just shut up and put up with it. There is no better alternative, so rather than stop playing altogether, I prefer to bitch and moan with the rest of the people who agree with me until Blizzard realizes that there is a large portion of subscribers who would like to see some changes.

    So I'm unlucky with LFR and heroics, and I don't do dailies so I cant fill slots with valor gear either. Pray tell how am I supposed to raid with my honor pvp gear? I can't even access HOF LFR because I don't have the required itemlevel. It's easy to say "enjoy the game, you dont need phat lewt" etc, but in reality, you do in order to access content without being a burden on everyone else.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Archaeon View Post
    And to Icedwarrior:

    Saying "dumb enough to play more than 1 character" is hardly a personal attack. I'm simply pointing out that you're punished even more (as I am since I also play multiple characters), because it means that if you DO decide to do dailies, then your time spent doing them multiplies. I only pvp on my alt so I care even less about dailies on him, but to someone who intends to have access to all factions on all characters, just thinking of the endless amount of dailies required to achieve that is beyond me.
    What if someone enjoys doing daily quests? I'm not saying I do, but there are people, I assume, that enjoy them. There are people that tolerate them. And there are people that hate them. If I was to say "you're retarded for playing a game that you hate", that's not a personal attack? At the very least, you're judging them on something you know nothing about...how do you know that they don't enjoy / tolerate doing dailies?

    As for the rest of your points, yes my post is highly subjective. Does that mean that there aren't other people that agree with me?
    The problem with that logic is that only the people that dislike WoW, for whatever reason, complain on the forums. How many times have you seen people praise Blizzard? There are far more people that complain on the forums that people that don't. That's not saying that 95% of players don't like WoW, either.

    Just because a lot of people are satisfied by the direction Blizzard is taking WoW, it doesn't mean the rest of us need to just shut up and put up with it. There is no better alternative, so rather than stop playing altogether, I prefer to bitch and moan with the rest of the people who agree with me until Blizzard realizes that there is a large portion of subscribers who would like to see some changes.
    And you're right. If you're unhappy, do something about it...but speaking up on a fansite, and continuing to pay for a product you no longer like is...a little absurd, don't you think? If I was unhappy with WoW, I would do the following:

    1.) Stop paying for something I don't like.
    2.) Inform Blizzard on their official website, and/or on the form they have you fill out when you cancel your sub.
    3.) Not post about it on a fansite, of which Blizzard is far less likely to read about it.
    4.) ???
    5.) Have fun playing something I enjoy.

    So I'm unlucky with LFR and heroics, and I don't do dailies so I cant fill slots with valor gear either. Pray tell how am I supposed to raid with my honor pvp gear? I can't even access HOF LFR because I don't have the required itemlevel. It's easy to say "enjoy the game, you dont need phat lewt" etc, but in reality, you do in order to access content without being a burden on everyone else.
    Obviously, there's a certain point where you do need gear, but I'll again offer up my example. Anecdotal is anecdotal, but...I was in a super-casual guild, in which I was surrounded with players that simply didn't care...that is to say, they were wearing full greens, didn't know boss mechanics, didn't listen, etc. We were in Kara, and I was doing twice the damage as the second, and only one other person in the guild could compete with me. Because I/we were only in Kara, I didn't have many alternatives (not to mention, because of our looting system, I could only legitimately get one loot per week, if I was so lucky)...so I set out to farm (for days and days) the Frozen Shadoweave set. I farmed Heroic Slave Pens over 50 times (effing Quagg's Eye never did drop for me), etc. I was Frost, as well, which looking back at it, wasn't the best of options, but I enjoyed the spec, so fuck min/maxing. Anyway, the remaining three quality players left the guild, and it died, so I chose to find a new guild. So, I followed them, and sent an app to their guild, of which was on Mother Shahraz at the moment, in Black Temple. Not only was I accepted, but I was in the roster, raiding with them daily. Did I "rock the charts"? No. But I was able to compete, even with a sub-optimal spec, and how many tiers behind gear? Point being, so long as you are able to zone in to the zone, and "carry your weight", you're fine. We eventually moved on to SWP...I don't remember how far we got, but we were in there, somewhere. So, yeah...Kara --> BT/SWP, "phat lewtz" be damned.

    Disclaimer: It's late. I've probably made a blunder or not been as articulate as I've had hoped.

  9. #209
    Every expansion killed WoW

    Imagine if these daily whiners had to deal with attunements...? Dear god that'd be horrendous

  10. #210
    The best argument I've seen to date.

    "wow's shit but it's the best on the market" Oh lord my sides!

    Don't people realize if you bother to quest in the zone were Dailies take place your almost honored / on your way to revered when you finish. Exceptions being golden lotus and AG. As some posters have Said, Tying Dailies into Waiting for Queue's, Talking to Guildies on Vent, farming materials or just relaxing from progression raiding. Seems to make them a fuck-ton more enjoyable.

    (Yes Fuck-ton is a measurement )

    Or did some of you just Queue Grind ?

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by 08nolanni View Post
    The best argument I've seen to date.

    "wow's shit but it's the best on the market" Oh lord my sides!

    Don't people realize if you bother to quest in the zone were Dailies take place your almost honored / on your way to revered when you finish. Exceptions being golden lotus and AG. As some posters have Said, Tying Dailies into Waiting for Queue's, Talking to Guildies on Vent, farming materials or just relaxing from progression raiding. Seems to make them a fuck-ton more enjoyable.

    (Yes Fuck-ton is a measurement )

    Or did some of you just Queue Grind ?
    I quested to 90 on 2 characters and did each dungeon once for the quests. Ended up with friendly with shado pan, honored with klaxxi, and neutral with everyone else... Cant raise Shado Pan or August Celestials without raising Golden Lotus, and Golden Lotus dailies are by far the worst. So yeah, great I can get some gear with klaxxi. Awesome. You know what I'd rather do while waiting in queues or talking to guildies? Watch a movie, listen to music, read some comics. I've hated dailies since TBC when they became a thing. I might do a few (4-5) once every week or 2, but that's the limit of my patience. They're boring, tedious, and repetitive. The fact that they're the only way to gain reputation is a glaring oversight.

    If you want pvp gear, you pvp or craft it (which applies to the specs that blizzard in their infinite wisdom decided to give crafted pvp gear for), and the gear is used for pvping. On the other hand if you want to pve, you can grind heroics and hope that the gear you need drops, or grind an endless amount of dailies, to get the rep needed to spend the currency you got from said heroics. Don't want to do dailies? You don't get to spend the valor points you got from a completely separate part of the game.

    I dont like dailies, so I don't do them. Blizzard however, attached both the elder charms, and valor point rewards to them, even though they are related to a completely separate part of the game which is dungeons/raids.

    I dont understand why so many people dont see why others might have a problem with that...

  12. #212
    Rep is hardly the biggest problem with the expansion.

    The big problem is VP production is way down. Worse, the VP grind will never end, since it will take close to six months to earn enough VP to buy the two upgrades for every slot (and you know they will tune content to require that upgrading).

    My account goes frozen in early December. World of Chorecraft just isn't doing it for me. Given that this is Blizzard's second failed expansion for me, I doubt I will get any more.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  13. #213
    Scarab Lord ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pandaman View Post
    Every expansion killed WoW

    Imagine if these daily whiners had to deal with attunements...? Dear god that'd be horrendous
    Attunements.... you mean single long quest chains which I could work on at my own pace, for fifteen minutes or fifteen hours, whenever I wanted? Loved 'em. Miss 'em.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    Attunements.... you mean single long quest chains which I could work on at my own pace, for fifteen minutes or fifteen hours, whenever I wanted? Loved 'em. Miss 'em.
    Nuff sed. Attunements are like the polar opposite of daily quests...

  15. #215
    I didn't mind the dailies on my hunter main. I don't even mind em too bad on my feral Druid alt. but she's a farming toon so I don't bother. My healers are the ones I'm feeling the pain. I like healing. But doing dailies on them just flat out sucks bc go figure I leveled as heals so I suck when I try dps on them. Never saw much point in learning to dps on those toons bc why would I choose them over a dps toon I'm much better at? I'm muddling through though. 5.1 buff will make it less painful.

    I'm just so freaking bored doing the same quest chains all over again. Sorta why my alts tend to level in dungeons. I've seen the story now I just want to get to the end game. That's a lazy issue on my part but it is what it is.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Ooh, since when? Last time I checked 4.3 managed to put a stop to WoW's decline.
    So no, it hasn't gone down as worst content patch in wow yet.

    If you want to be objective about it, the start of Cata was the "worst" content yet since it made so many people leave.
    Didn't WoW lose like 1.1 million subs with this patch alone? Even 3.3 managed to bring in more subs untill it reached the 12 million. I'd say its not the worst content patch, but definatly one of the worst. The worst is still the one with the voice chat which nobody uses, or the revamped troll dungeons.

  17. #217
    Stood in the Fire Slirith's Avatar
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    I'm playing various free MMOs(GW2 etc) till the new version of FFXIV or the US version of Blade and Soul....WoW just turns out the same every expansion...1 or 2 new things while the rest is just rehashed content...IE MoP new is pet battles while scenarios are just rehashed 5mans


    http://us.bladeandsoul.com/en/
    Last edited by Slirith; 2012-11-14 at 04:39 PM.

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  18. #218
    i wanted to complain about dailies taking up too much time.... then i remembered i capped exalted on all the reps, and have done all but 1 achievement for them, so i dont bother doing them any more.
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
    Best Mage EVAR!


  19. #219
    Warchief Henkdejager's Avatar
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    well with the dailies i actualy get my reps to exalted. with the tabards i always was like , "nah i will do it later , i will do it later " caus i fucking hate running 5mans ,i don't like PvE. and if i did run a few 5mans i had the problem forgettin the tabarrd , i have 0 cata reps on exalted because of that.

    so yes i hate having a sort of second job , but it's my choice. i got the golden lotus on revered and i am now doing the shado pan. once shado pan is exalted i will be doing the golden lotus again. i work 1 faction at a time so i won't be busy all my play time with dailies , plus i still got stuff to do for the rest of the exp.

    most of the QQers want to run in full epic at the start and be like , look at me lol i got 9 chars full epic.

    this comes from a guy with 2 lvl 90s , 1 lvl 88 monk. ( the lvl 90s are shaman / hunter wich are both pretty good geared for PvP content.)

    stop the QQ and just do something about it yourself:S and yes i laughed at the post of that guy with his 9 lvl 90s.

  20. #220
    11million is possible you guys do know that the annaul pass promo is not counted into the sub count until those people resub after the pass is over so yes there could very easyily be near 11 million or close to 11million players or more.if you go read the way they count subs it says promos arent counted into it point is your going to see a sub increase nomatter what and i highly doubt they all of the annaul pass people won't resub maybe a few won't.

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