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  1. #221
    I will start by saying WoW is not going to die anytime soon.

    Now, I have been a player for 7 years, but to me the game is dwindling heavily. I don't play it like I used to. I get bored quicker, to be honest I have grown tired and to me, it is dull.

    that being said, personal opinions aside...

    To say WoW's gameplay, graphics, etc are better than other games is just ignorant. There is only 1 thing that WoW excels, and it is in reality the only thing that matters in an MMO - the player community.

    Warcraft has, 11 million players currently? It could fare to lose what, 9 or 10 million of those and still be competitive compared to other MMOs. People play WoW because everyone else plays it. Your friends, your co-workers, classmates, neighbors, garbage man, pool cleaning guy, hell your grandpa and his shuffleboard team probably play it too.
    Lets look back at the last time a great, well established MMO died. Everquest, which itself was killed by the up and coming WoW.

    What has to be made to cause people to leave WoW, and for WoW to die, is a choice of quality that surpasses that of the established community. For EQ, this was achieved by EQ2.

    EQ2 and WoW both released in November of 2004. EQ was one of the largest MMO's at the time, but stopping development of EQ, and creating EQ2 gave people a chance to try something new. It was a reason for everyone to drop what they were doing and search for the next best thing. had EQ never released EQ2, I am willing to bet it would have gone somewhat differently. They tried to move their entire userbase to a new game, and in doing so their userbase found a home somewhere else.

    Lets face it, in its early months, Warcraft was an absolutely horrifying game. the amount of gamebreaking bugs, glitches, imbalance, poor itemization, entire talent trees rendered completely useless, WoW in the first year was a practical abomination to the MMO industry. But they hit the nail on the head with a picture perfect release date, landed it in a time where because of the shift EQ made, there was no greener pasture to go to.

    slowly perfecting their gameplay, WoW has locked themselves in as the absolute go-to titan of MMOs. The only way this can be killed is that quality decision stated earlier, and the decision is going to have to be MASSIVE to beat 11 million players. it would have to be massive to beat half of that.

    TL;DR - The only way WoW can die is halting production on WoW for a sequel (lets say, WoW2), which will never happen. Ever. Blizzard knows how huge of a mistake this would be, considering they themselves dismantled Everquest as a direct result of this. You have many many MANY years to go before WoW can die. I wouldn't hold your breath. anyone who can blatantly claim the death of wow is seriously butthurt about something, but I guarantee that something isn't even remotely detrimental to the longevity of their IP.
    Your face when the Scoundrel is Gallagher.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by mikencarly View Post
    11million is possible you guys do know that the annaul pass promo is not counted into the sub count until those people resub after the pass is over
    That's 100% wrong, you know. The annual pass holders are subscribed all through the time they are on the annual pass, and are counted as subs during that time.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by mikencarly View Post
    you guys do know that the annaul pass promo is not counted into the sub count until those people resub after the pass is over
    Total nonsense.

  4. #224
    Herald of the Titans Suikoden's Avatar
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    Fans really do take things for granted in WoW. -_-

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    The big problem is VP production is way down. Worse, the VP grind will never end, since it will take close to six months to earn enough VP to buy the two upgrades for every slot (and you know they will tune content to require that upgrading).
    That's a pretty strong assumption, as most pieces from heroic T14 will be replaced by normal T15 or at least by early heroic T15.
    Also frankly, once all LFR wings will be open, capping valor will be a joke.

  6. #226
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suikoden View Post
    Fans really do take things for granted in WoW. -_-
    Thank you for becoming a part of my sig :x.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    Mike Morhaine's definitely been using his body to sell copies of WoW.
    Writer and journalist for Adventures In Poor Taste (http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/)

  7. #227
    I bought GW2 last week b/c it was on sale from GMG. Playing it, it's hard to go back to WoW because WoW feels more like a job and less like fun. GW2 isn't perfect, but it does show an evolution beyond what WoW now offers. The F2P model they use is also pretty spot-on, and something I wish Blizzard would learn from. Because I would buy things like cosmetic outfits, pets, mounts, etc. if I weren't already paying $15 per month (as evidenced by already buying keys for GW2).

    Anyway, I do think WoW is well past its prime, and it's going to continue to have problems keeping people like me playing with outdated ideas like allowing kill-stealing, resource node competition, and broken small-time PVP.

    Flame away. I've played WoW since beta and I'm unsubbed because it's just not offering me enough entertainment value compared to alternatives anymore.

  8. #228
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    I unsubbed from WoW a couple of months before MoP came out. I don't really see any new features that fix the two major issues that caused me to unsub: 1. The community is horrible and Blizzard refuses to take any action against people who make it worse. 2. If you don't raid or pvp, there's nothing for you to do once you reach max level. I'm not going through another boring daily grind like the Molten Front again, so I'm still unsubbed. Probably won't ever re-sub unless those two issues are addressed. Chances are they won't be.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by pandaman View Post
    Every expansion killed WoW

    Imagine if these daily whiners had to deal with attunements...? Dear god that'd be horrendous
    The funniest part about this is I love attunements but hate questing, usually they required you to do a mix of raids and dungeons which I'm fine with. Those are why I play the game.
    "When life gives you lemons, don't make Lemonade! You make life take the lemons back. Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons!" - Cave Johnson

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoZ View Post
    I'm not going through another boring daily grind like the Molten Front again, so I'm still unsubbed.
    Given what the daily quests are like for the various MoP factions, you have made a very wise decision.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  11. #231
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Given what the daily quests are like for the various MoP factions, you have made a very wise decision.
    LOL Yes, so I've heard. I do have some alts that I'd like to get to max level though, I was having a ball leveling my Warrior tank and Mage RP alt, but I just can't justify the money/time investment if I'm going to get back into the game and then spend the next 2 years parked (again) in a major city (again) feeling forced to do the same dailies over and over (again) again.

    I wish that they could periodically (every couple of weeks or so) add in some plot-heavy lore-filled long and hugely difficult quest lines, or maybe some class-specific content. That would at least keep me subbed. I don't care about gear or progression or any of that, I just want fresh content on a relatively normal basis, I don't even care if there's no rewards for it, I just want to do new stuff more often.

  12. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    Didn't WoW lose like 1.1 million subs with this patch alone? Even 3.3 managed to bring in more subs untill it reached the 12 million. I'd say its not the worst content patch, but definatly one of the worst. The worst is still the one with the voice chat which nobody uses, or the revamped troll dungeons.
    No, they stopped the decline with 4.3.
    The only loss they made was when they didn't release content for over half a year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Rep is hardly the biggest problem with the expansion.

    The big problem is VP production is way down. Worse, the VP grind will never end, since it will take close to six months to earn enough VP to buy the two upgrades for every slot (and you know they will tune content to require that upgrading).

    My account goes frozen in early December. World of Chorecraft just isn't doing it for me. Given that this is Blizzard's second failed expansion for me, I doubt I will get any more.
    Dude.. You don't HAVE to do it.
    With the casual-approach you seem to have, we will probably end up in LFR-gear anyway.
    And why the hell would you want to upgrade that anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Archaeon View Post
    We're talking about MOP last time I checked. I don't know where you got this 4 years argument from. The expansion has been out for 2 months now and so far it's been a less than stellar experience.
    Aah yes, THIS expansion you will be right..

    They're optional in the same sense that going to work to pay the bills is optional. You can choose to not work and live on the street but that means not having a roof over your head, or food etc. I dislike dailies enough that not having access to most content in MOP is a price I'm willing to pay. It doesn't make it any less "mandatory" in order to get the most out of the expansion though.
    If you want to "get the most" out of the expansion you also have to do pet battles. So they are mandatory now?

    And how can you even compare that?
    In one thing you'll have to raid to get gear and in the other thing you have nothing to eat and sleep on the street.
    Yes.. 100% comparable!
    I have only done ONE day of dailies and I am enjoying this expansion as much as any other guy.

  13. #233
    First point, OP is clueless to the reality of numbers. 10 mil is 10 mil, not 11 mil. If indeed it was over 11 mil, then WoW officially would have said it. 2nd, if they are still at 10 mil subs and China gained 1 mil, that means the NA/EU might be losing subs, which is bad. Especially since China is only about 6% of WoWs revenue.

  14. #234
    Herald of the Titans Suikoden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Thank you for becoming a part of my sig :x.
    I feel honored.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Kesandri View Post
    9 Million subs at the end of what was considered the worst wow expansion, at which point do we stop calling them fanboys and something new and inventive instead?

    @Op, wow has touched so many gamers in good and bad ways and all you are seeing from some moaners are a minority of a group of gamers who struggle to let go of what was once a great game for them and has now turned into something they dislike, even tho it turned into something many of us prefer. They simply want their old wow back and struggle to come to terms with it.

    One day each and every one of these moaners will eventually move on in life and probably stop visiting sites like this altogether, unfortunatly tho as 1 moves on another drops into replace them thus the neverending cycle.

    If anything I always take from negativity of what a great game wow was, has been and still is, people dont moan about something they dont care about
    Couldnt agree with this post more Kesandri...nailed it.

  16. #236
    Wow IS dead. Of course that will trigger the addict's response of "omgz we got teh 10 millionz". But it doesn't mean the game still isn't dead.

    10 million people running around the ruins of a once much more enjoyable game. Wow has become a Facebook game without the need to run a web browser. So in many players eyes, it died a while back. If I was a betting man, I'd put the subscription total to about 8.2 on the Q4 call.

    Look at the ridicule people get today for just being associated with the game. The days of MMO players being the "cutting edge gamer" are over, hell, I think many are embarrassed to claim they even play (excluding places like this, where people are much more consumed by the game).

    How will WoW go out? We'll probably see a pattern like we've seen before. Another big drop...let's just guess...a 1.5 million a decline. Then that number will hold steady, possibly some more quarterly gains before yet another massive drop. We'll see this cycle continue and in a few years from now it'll be around 5 million. Still won't be dead...and many will use the "5 million is still better than other MMOs" argument. The game will be running in 10 years, much like how EQ and Ultima still are running. Vanilla private servers will likely exist far, far into the future.

    But really, who cares....

    If subscription numbers are really THAT important to you that it troubles you to hear people quit Wow, then you need to unplug the internet and go get some professional help. The days of droves of new people flocking to the game are long gone, the days of growth are over.

    Now just comes death.
    Last edited by MikeyD; 2012-11-14 at 11:17 PM.

  17. #237
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyD View Post
    Wow IS dead. Of course that will trigger the addict's response of "omgz we got teh 10 millionz". But it doesn't mean the game still isn't dead.
    We must using different dictionaries then.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyD View Post
    10 million people running around the ruins of a once much more enjoyable game. Wow has become a Facebook game without the need to run a web browser. So in many players eyes, it died a while back. If I was a betting man, I'd put the subscription total to about 8.2 on the Q4 call.
    Can you please pick a stock on US or EU market and give me its price at the end of Q4? I want to make some money

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyD View Post
    If subscription numbers are really THAT important to you that it troubles you to hear people quit Wow, then you need to unplug the internet and go get some professional help. The days of droves of new people flocking to the game are long gone, the days of growth are over.
    The days of all MMO market growing are over. So, guess what, you can't grow noticeably on a declining market. Still, WoW manages to pull off what other MMOs can't even think of.

    Also: I'm not interested about people leaving the game if they just leave the game. However, I do despise people that leave the game but feel unsure about it or just look at mending their own insecurity, so they come to whine on forums to explain how - obviously - THEY made the right choice, and how the one who stay are - still obviously - Blizz fanboys. On the other hand, people who play the game don't go on GW2 or whatever other game forums to whine about how they did not leave WoW. That's a big difference - quitters always want to whine and argue about it because they want to rationalize their decision. If you want to quit the game, do so. If you don't, don't. But don't brag or whine on the Internet about it to rationalize your decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyD View Post
    Now just comes death.
    But of course, and the world will come to the end on 21/12/2012, anyway.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Hodenkrieg View Post
    I will start by saying WoW is not going to die anytime soon.

    Now, I have been a player for 7 years, but to me the game is dwindling heavily. I don't play it like I used to. I get bored quicker, to be honest I have grown tired and to me, it is dull.

    that being said, personal opinions aside...

    To say WoW's gameplay, graphics, etc are better than other games is just ignorant. There is only 1 thing that WoW excels, and it is in reality the only thing that matters in an MMO - the player community.

    Warcraft has, 11 million players currently? It could fare to lose what, 9 or 10 million of those and still be competitive compared to other MMOs. People play WoW because everyone else plays it. Your friends, your co-workers, classmates, neighbors, garbage man, pool cleaning guy, hell your grandpa and his shuffleboard team probably play it too.
    Lets look back at the last time a great, well established MMO died. Everquest, which itself was killed by the up and coming WoW.

    What has to be made to cause people to leave WoW, and for WoW to die, is a choice of quality that surpasses that of the established community. For EQ, this was achieved by EQ2.

    EQ2 and WoW both released in November of 2004. EQ was one of the largest MMO's at the time, but stopping development of EQ, and creating EQ2 gave people a chance to try something new. It was a reason for everyone to drop what they were doing and search for the next best thing. had EQ never released EQ2, I am willing to bet it would have gone somewhat differently. They tried to move their entire userbase to a new game, and in doing so their userbase found a home somewhere else.

    Lets face it, in its early months, Warcraft was an absolutely horrifying game. the amount of gamebreaking bugs, glitches, imbalance, poor itemization, entire talent trees rendered completely useless, WoW in the first year was a practical abomination to the MMO industry. But they hit the nail on the head with a picture perfect release date, landed it in a time where because of the shift EQ made, there was no greener pasture to go to.

    slowly perfecting their gameplay, WoW has locked themselves in as the absolute go-to titan of MMOs. The only way this can be killed is that quality decision stated earlier, and the decision is going to have to be MASSIVE to beat 11 million players. it would have to be massive to beat half of that.

    TL;DR - The only way WoW can die is halting production on WoW for a sequel (lets say, WoW2), which will never happen. Ever. Blizzard knows how huge of a mistake this would be, considering they themselves dismantled Everquest as a direct result of this. You have many many MANY years to go before WoW can die. I wouldn't hold your breath. anyone who can blatantly claim the death of wow is seriously butthurt about something, but I guarantee that something isn't even remotely detrimental to the longevity of their IP.


    I think the above is one of the WORST posts ever on a WOW forum.

    So many things are so out of line, I just think: cool man, now go outside and re read this piece ,within a month or something.

    Vanilla Warcraft a "horryfying game" ? WOW, so how did it grow then ? "Because it was released in a time window of EQ ..." ??? Sigh.

    ---

    That's the nature of the internet I guess, anyone can spit out an opinion and can get away with it.

    BTW here is a thought on your first thought and I quote "... say WoW's gameplay, graphics, etc are better than other games is just ignorant..."

    Biiiip. Wrong remark already.

    I NEVER saw anything as smooth , as responsive and as seamless as in WOW back in 2004.

    The rest of the MMO's is still crawling behind unadapted CLUNKY engines and terrible designed worlds with disgusting loading screens all over the place. We know it, ... we tried them all ...


    --- Voila, I won't go into detail about the other misconceptions...
    Last edited by BenBos; 2012-11-15 at 01:01 AM.

  19. #239
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyD View Post
    Wow IS dead. Of course that will trigger the addict's response of "omgz we got teh 10 millionz". But it doesn't mean the game still isn't dead.

    10 million people running around the ruins of a once much more enjoyable game. Wow has become a Facebook game without the need to run a web browser. So in many players eyes, it died a while back. If I was a betting man, I'd put the subscription total to about 8.2 on the Q4 call.

    Look at the ridicule people get today for just being associated with the game. The days of MMO players being the "cutting edge gamer" are over, hell, I think many are embarrassed to claim they even play (excluding places like this, where people are much more consumed by the game).

    How will WoW go out? We'll probably see a pattern like we've seen before. Another big drop...let's just guess...a 1.5 million a decline. Then that number will hold steady, possibly some more quarterly gains before yet another massive drop. We'll see this cycle continue and in a few years from now it'll be around 5 million. Still won't be dead...and many will use the "5 million is still better than other MMOs" argument.
    Until the WoW movie comes out and subs jump to about 30 million...

  20. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyaka21 View Post
    First point, OP is clueless to the reality of numbers. 10 mil is 10 mil, not 11 mil. If indeed it was over 11 mil, then WoW officially would have said it. 2nd, if they are still at 10 mil subs and China gained 1 mil, that means the NA/EU might be losing subs, which is bad. Especially since China is only about 6% of WoWs revenue.
    This is EXACTLY what i was showing in my previous post... the fanboys totally ignore whats actually reported by Blizzard themselves in their financial reports. They stick to forum gossip and take it as fact.

    The truth is that back in Wrath Wow peaked at 12mill subs and EU and US made up the vast majority of that 12million. The Asian market was tiny and only just starting so can at best only account for 1 or 2 million subs.

    Now i read somewhere in a Blizzard interview during Cata that EU is now down to 1.5mill subs and US is just over 3mill with Asian market taking up the rest... now all u clever Einstiens go do the math. Thats right the Asian market takes up the vast majority of the total subs figure these days... Basically the subscriptions in EU and USA can best be described as plummeting whereas the Asian market is expanding.

    Also for the record the last Blizzard announcement on subs numbers was 10.1mill so who the hell invented this 11mill bullcrap?

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