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  1. #1
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Subscription Vs. F2P

    http://www.swtor.com/FREE/Features

    Since the other thread is about an entirely different matter, let's delve into the interesting 'further details' they have provided with this list.

    It looks like they are hammering F2P pretty hard. It will be next to impossible not to sub if you want to play this game. Fortunately I won't be one of those people anymore.

    You can't revive in the field more than 5 times or equip epics at all unless you pay to unlock it. Apparently instead of using LotRO's most successful cash shop/pts rewards, they've created an abomination of a cash shop. God only knows where they will go if this is the starting point.

    5 field revives, then you have to purchase more
    1 crew skill, or can purchase more
    No epics, or you can purchase the ability to wear gear

    Some of these things are down right silly. They aren't even masking the fact that they don't want F2P players. It almost makes me wonder how they think this will make them money. I think once again they will rely on subscription players to buy the extras in order to profit. I don't think they can seriously expect new people or old players to fall into this.


    Disclaimer:
    I know this game is aiming to be 'freemium', this isn't aimed to attract vitriol from either viewpoint.
    Last edited by Kelimbror; 2012-10-16 at 11:17 PM.

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral Jamos77's Avatar
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    Agree. Some of these make no sense to me. I've never played a F2P before though so can't consider myself an expert. I do know that I wouldn't even be tempted to go F2P with that setup. Ok maybe if I were 'reaaaally' casual.

    I'd hope that BW have some fantastic strategy that isn't visible to the naked eye...we'll find out in Novemebr I guess.
    Last edited by Jamos77; 2012-10-16 at 11:37 PM.
    SWG - Jamus Divinus - Bria 2005-2011

    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    There is plenty to criticize with the game and BioWares handling of it without resorting to exaggeration, so let's not do it : /

  3. #3
    Free to play is fine so long as you do it right.

    The way swtor is doing it is a 1 to 50 trial version for a game that will be 51+.

    Does league prevent you from hitting 30? nope.
    Does moonbreakers prevent you from buying top of the line craft? nope.
    Does vindictus prevent you from doing end game? nope.

    If AAA titles need more money than they should do B2P with cash shop.

    Wow. I actually took time too look at the restrictions.

    So long low level pvp.
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  4. #4
    Well, this is about as restrictive as the the system SoE uses for EQ1/2 and Vanguard, and I refuse to give them a single cent for any of those games since they restrict free players so much.

    I'll definitely not be supporting this cash shop at all. I'm still going to play through 1-2 stories, but I can't support a monetization scheme like this. I have no problem dropping cash on a F2P game every now and then and have frequently done so, but I won't support a developer who can't figure out how to incentivize using the cash shop without overly restricting free players.

    I'm super disappointed. I was one of the biggest supporters of the F2P (I know it's freemium and there's a difference) transition and praised them for being willing to embrace it. Sadly though, our fears that EA/BW would implement an overly restrictive monetization scheme are realized : /

  5. #5
    The 5 death thing will assure they don't get new ppl to play the game. Somebody that doesn't understand what they are doing or gets a little over zealous will burn those up instantly.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
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  6. #6
    Pay to wear epic gear, W T F !
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  7. #7
    Wondering if the description for Flashpoints is indicating that you can run them all you want as F2P but only get xp/quest credit 3 times a week, or if it is limited to 3 Flashpoint runs a week...

    Originally Posted by SWTOR
    Full rewards from three Flashpoints per week or purchase a weekly pass to unlock rewards for all Flashpoints.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrven View Post
    The 5 death thing will assure they don't get new ppl to play the game. Somebody that doesn't understand what they are doing or gets a little over zealous will burn those up instantly.
    Ganking.

    Will now cost new players money.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Pay to wear epic gear, W T F !
    EQ1/2 and Vanguard all use this system (and they even extend it to higher ranks of abilities and multiple higher qualities of gear) and it's honestly one of the worst things ever. Curious as to what old players with epic gear will find on their characters. My guardian in EQ2 lost all her gear because it was legendary and I couldn't equip it, so I basically had to trash my character since I had no gear and couldn't really use the AH. Was terrible. Hopefully people won't come back to find that they can't use any of the epic gear they earned before the change : /

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    EQ1/2 and Vanguard all use this system (and they even extend it to higher ranks of abilities and multiple higher qualities of gear) and it's honestly one of the worst things ever. Curious as to what old players with epic gear will find on their characters. My guardian in EQ2 lost all her gear because it was legendary and I couldn't equip it, so I basically had to trash my character since I had no gear and couldn't really use the AH. Was terrible. Hopefully people won't come back to find that they can't use any of the epic gear they earned before the change : /
    Was thinking of doing a login and check it out once it had gone F2P but why bother if I can't even use my characters, I'll quote a guy in our community regarding some of the choices made for SWTOR, Some one at EA/BW must really hate that game.
    Active PoE: @MajorAsshole EvE: Redblade (Reikoku)
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  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral Jamos77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    EQ1/2 and Vanguard all use this system (and they even extend it to higher ranks of abilities and multiple higher qualities of gear) and it's honestly one of the worst things ever. Curious as to what old players with epic gear will find on their characters. My guardian in EQ2 lost all her gear because it was legendary and I couldn't equip it, so I basically had to trash my character since I had no gear and couldn't really use the AH. Was terrible. Hopefully people won't come back to find that they can't use any of the epic gear they earned before the change : /
    Not trying to be Devil's Advocate but in your opinion why do you think EQ and Vanguard use this system? I presume they've been using it for years? If so then surely it's profitable for them. If it's profitable then surely their subscribers (who aren't affected by this system's limits) benefit from the ongoing content updates etc of the games themselves?

    I ask because I am truly ignorant of F2P models. I just hope that the model works if older games are using it. It's a hope sandwiched into a question
    SWG - Jamus Divinus - Bria 2005-2011

    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    There is plenty to criticize with the game and BioWares handling of it without resorting to exaggeration, so let's not do it : /

  12. #12
    Anyone else notice that getting ganked will cost you real life money?

    So new players will be farmed by 50s on narshadda. I already know several of my friends who still play who are planning on greifing new players.

    And essentially expedite the games death

    Why? I have no idea. but apparently it will be "fun". I personally have never found ganking lowbies fun.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamos77 View Post
    Not trying to be Devil's Advocate but in your opinion why do you think EQ and Vanguard use this system? I presume they've been using it for years? If so then surely it's profitable for them. If it's profitable then surely their subscribers (who aren't affected by this system's limits) benefit from the ongoing content updates etc of the games themselves?

    I ask because I am truly ignorant of F2P models. I just hope that the model works if older games are using it. It's a hope sandwiched into a question
    Vanguard recently went F2P and EQ2 has had a F2P client before transitioning the whole game to F2P for around a year, so it's not been around terribly long.

    Why they use it? Twofold: 1. It HIGHLY incentivizes subscribing, as you lose access to the overwhelming majority of the good gear, and will essentially hit a progression wall at higher levels as the standard quality gear won't cut it. 2. It's likely very profitable. But they didn't use this for DCUO, a much more recently created game that went freemium, so it's not like this is their only model.

    Honestly, it's so punishing to free players and so anti-player-friendly that I can't bring myself to support it in any game it's in. I have no problem with a company making money or using a scheme that has been proven to make money (random boxes that are essentially gambling, for example). What I have a problem with, is when those monetization decisions have a significantly negative impact on the player experience and severely limit what kind of content a player has access to.

  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral Jamos77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    Vanguard recently went F2P and EQ2 has had a F2P client before transitioning the whole game to F2P for around a year, so it's not been around terribly long.

    Why they use it? Twofold: 1. It HIGHLY incentivizes subscribing, as you lose access to the overwhelming majority of the good gear, and will essentially hit a progression wall at higher levels as the standard quality gear won't cut it. 2. It's likely very profitable. But they didn't use this for DCUO, a much more recently created game that went freemium, so it's not like this is their only model.

    Honestly, it's so punishing to free players and so anti-player-friendly that I can't bring myself to support it in any game it's in. I have no problem with a company making money or using a scheme that has been proven to make money (random boxes that are essentially gambling, for example). What I have a problem with, is when those monetization decisions have a significantly negative impact on the player experience and severely limit what kind of content a player has access to.
    Oh I agree that on paper it looks way too harsh. My question was due to my hope that somehow Bioware actually know what they're doing with this choice. You answered and I thank you. Guess that hope of mine is dieing. Pity.
    SWG - Jamus Divinus - Bria 2005-2011

    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    There is plenty to criticize with the game and BioWares handling of it without resorting to exaggeration, so let's not do it : /

  15. #15
    Anybody notice that subscribers still have to pay for equipping certain items, if you hover your mouse over "Item Equipping FULL ACCESS" ? I assume that's an error. Also didn't find the restrictions concerning chat for F2P users. And unless they exist, the trolling, spamming and advertising will be horrible. Overall this sums it up quite nicely:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    http://www.swtor.com/FREE/FeaturesSome of these things are down right silly. They aren't even masking the fact that they don't want F2P players.

  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral Giants41's Avatar
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    Oh EA.. You never do anything right.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by thevoicefromwithin View Post
    Anybody notice that subscribers still have to pay for equipping certain items, if you hover your mouse over "Item Equipping FULL ACCESS" ? I assume that's an error. Also didn't find the restrictions concerning chat for F2P users. And unless they exist, the trolling, spamming and advertising will be horrible. Overall this sums it up quite nicely:
    Fucking woah...seriously? Purple items are just like, the equivalent of epic items...right? If so, this might be one of the most monumentally douche moves to happen in MMO's. I'm hoping/assuming it's just a typo and they copy/pasted the wrong information...

    Also curious about the ability to purchase more cargo/inventory space for subscribers. Will that be in addition to what subscribers already have now, or are they making the total smaller and forcing subscribers to pay more to unlock it?

  18. #18
    Looking at it makes the decision not to hand former subscribers free Cartel Coins even more boneheaded. Allowing them a chance to ride into the new TFB Operation or NM Denova? Really poor move by EA here. Those two could have been something that really made those endgame people jump at the chance to take a look at and possibly resub for.

  19. #19
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    Fucking woah...seriously? Purple items are just like, the equivalent of epic items...right? If so, this might be one of the most monumentally douche moves to happen in MMO's. I'm hoping/assuming it's just a typo and they copy/pasted the wrong information...

    Also curious about the ability to purchase more cargo/inventory space for subscribers. Will that be in addition to what subscribers already have now, or are they making the total smaller and forcing subscribers to pay more to unlock it?
    At this point who even knows anymore? The wordings are completely different for the two columns. It doesn't mean that it is supposed to say that, but it does increase that it was intentional and definitely wasn't a copy paste error.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    EQ1/2 and Vanguard all use this system (and they even extend it to higher ranks of abilities and multiple higher qualities of gear) and it's honestly one of the worst things ever. Curious as to what old players with epic gear will find on their characters. My guardian in EQ2 lost all her gear because it was legendary and I couldn't equip it, so I basically had to trash my character since I had no gear and couldn't really use the AH. Was terrible. Hopefully people won't come back to find that they can't use any of the epic gear they earned before the change : /
    It'll probably refer to high level epic gear, and not a level 30 epic helm. If you're logging into an epic-geared 50, you're not playing the free story content anymore. F2P is ONLY for the story content, the rest is going to cost you, and why shouldn't it?

    As for the Deaths? You can die more than five times, you just can't rezz where you are. This is the only thing I think BW is being stingy on, but I honestly could give a damn. Playing this game without a sub on freemium (and without spending coins) will be fine, IF you're there for the 1-50 story content. If you're not and want more? Buy the unlimited pass for the activity you want (PvP, etc), or fucking sub. It's that easy, and if you're uninterested, GW2 or WoW or Tera or Farmville are right there waiting.
    Formerly known here as Nakaya_Kilrogg.
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