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  1. #221
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    This is not quite how it works.

    The community says "there's nothing to do."

    The community wasn't saying "there's nothing to do, so we'll accept ANYTHING that gives us something to do."

    The community statements are incomplete requirements, not complete specifications of what they need to be satisfied.
    This is largely true I think. For me, constructive criticism also includes some suggestions about how things could be improved. If 100 people complain about how there's nothing to do and only one or two give a hint at what additional things they would like, then you get what you get. Blizzard makes a best guess which, in any case, will never ever please everyone.

    It's pretty easy to imagine a dev conversation over lunch that would go something like:

    "People say they need more to do at end game."
    "OK, do these people have any ideas?"
    "No, not really. Maybe we should look at previous history."
    "There's a lot of love for BC even though there were terrible grinds in that."
    "That's a thought. Maybe they weren't as terrible as we thought."
    "Well, whatever you do, provide some alternate ways to get to the same place. Just in case."
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2012-11-17 at 10:49 PM.
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  2. #222
    Epic! Detheavn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illiterate View Post
    Regardless, they are paying customers. You don't treat them like shit.
    And Blizzard employees are human beings, but I a lot of people on the forums casually seem to forget that as well.

    Being a paying customer does not give you a free pass to be a douche.

  3. #223
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    This is largely true I think. For me, constructive criticism also includes some suggestions about how things could be improved. If 100 people complain about how there's nothing to do and only one or two give a hint at what additional things they would like, then you get what you get. Blizzard makes a best guess which, in any case, will never ever please everyone.
    And when they permanently ban those who did, they bite their own foot in the process.

    I'm happy they implemented things I hammered home on the WoW forums as alternatives (especially planting...and I see they used Sims 3 gardening as an example). I'm still looking for fishing leaderboards and various bait that a certain MUD incorporated, which was a nice side-game for those at end-game. These things were popular in other games and would be popular in WoW (as the gamer is no different here than there). Add to all that WoW also needs a shiny system, which even RIFT brought over from EQ2 (one of the most popular side-games in that game, and a very profitable).

    We shouldn't wait for another MMO to lead Blizzard by the nose on features, there's plenty in existence, popular and fun. But Blizzard stubbornly wants to stick it's head in the sand with their ideas, while the other MMOs continue innovating.

    CRZ should've been a crow jewel for Blizzard like LFG and BGs. But it was released at the expense of community. Like arena the implementation of the idea went wrong, as a MMO without a vibrant community is dead at the core (much like a dead tree).
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  4. #224
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detheavn View Post
    And Blizzard employees are human beings, but I a lot of people on the forums casually seem to forget that as well.

    Being a paying customer does not give you a free pass to be a douche.
    yeah totally agree.

    I guess the only issue then is how it perpetuates. Because the player acts like a douche to the devs, the devs counter that by being douches back, and that makes the players thing they have more right to be even bigger douchebags, and so on and so on.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 01:11 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    no 1 is forced to do dailies im not even subbed and i get this

    if they only knew how long ogrila and netherwing (especially during tbc wen u didnt get every single egg spawn) took XD
    I think what the problem is well some factions have things players really want to possess quick, like item upgrades, other factions don't have things that are really needed at any quick pace.

    What should simply have been the case was allowing easier access to factions to get you to exalted with them sooner (like not having to get shado-pan dailes only after golden locus revered), and yet keep factions that don't have as such needy items at exalted that can be done over a longer period, like getting cloud serpent, tillers, the anglers and lorewalkers over a longer period of grinding, well the klaxxi, shado-pan, golden locus and august celestials is something you can do in a shorter space of time.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    Were you going to answer my question, or just spout deflections and attempt to misdirect the discussion like you always do?

    The question was pretty simple, so lets try it again: How exactly do you come to the conclusion, using logic and not grandiose claims that you have no way of backing up, that Blizzard intentionally takes their playerbase for granted because they are somehow under the belief that their playerbase is too young to understand how to sue them?

    And by all means, try to hide behind the "but it's a fanboi forum" excuse again, just so I can get a good laugh (which coming from someone who has a "blizzard is personally persecuting me" quote in his sig is fairly amusing in and of itself").

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-17 at 10:34 PM ----------


    Of course not. You let them walk all over you and reward them for it when they do. That will teach them.
    There are other more professional ways of dealing with kids, which don't include acting the same.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Illiterate View Post
    There are other more professional ways of dealing with kids, which don't include acting the same.
    If a child acts like a child, you treat them like a child. You occasionally paddle their butt if it comes to that, or give them a nice time out in the corner without their toys, and eventually they learn to respect the rules the adults have set out. You dont just let them walk all over you, or get away with throwing tantrums to get what they want, because then they quite quickly learn that all they have to do is toss a tantrum and you bend over to get them to stop.

    Just hang around any large grocery store for more then an hour on a busy day and it becomes pretty easy to spot the good parents from the bad. The bad ones are the ones who usually have a screaming kid in tow, who gets every box of cereal / snacks / toys they want just because they throw a fit till their parents put it in the cart to shut them up.

    In the same way, when a forum poster acts like a kid and throws a tantrum, the Blues have every right to treat him like a kid, lock his post, and give him a time out. They also have every right to TELL the person they are acting like a child, and will be treated like such if said behaviour continues.
    Last edited by Surfd; 2012-11-18 at 07:52 AM.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by syn1k View Post
    you enjoyed that their system is so horribly set up they cant add new items to their store when every they want to, and that it takes them 2 months to make any kind of changes to the game? and then basically telling people they are dumb for thinking that changes can happen in a reasonable amount of time.

    yeah that was hilarious.
    You do realize that isn't a game issue right? What you can and can't buy in the store has ZERO effect on the game. The fact that you whiners think Blizzard considers any of these situations ideal is pure lunacy. Think you can do it better? Blizzard is hiring. Go show them how its done.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-21 at 06:29 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Major gag order -- what do you think they're hiding?
    There is no gag order. No one is hiding anything. Good lord you are worse than Kevyne

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-21 at 06:31 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose19 View Post
    No it's customer service, they should be as objective as possible. Instead they act like pricks who think too much of themselves. Would you like to be called an idiot over phone when you wanna register a complaint?
    Customer support is customer service. Community managers speak for the developers and sometimes that means telling customers they don't agree with their concerns. If you don't like your opinons being commented by other players or Blizzard employees don't post them. Simple as that.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-21 at 06:34 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by tripleh View Post
    IMO I wish someone would smack the shit out of them everytime they copy and paste the rules on there posts or links to feedback. Neth is really bad about that. Either that or have a bad wave of karma hit them to knock some sense into them and treat customers with some dam respect. Just saying , its pretty stupid how they act like asshats to players that pay there salary from the subs. Any other company would fire them on the spot for treating customers like crap. Imagine if your internet/cable providers customer service treated you the same way every time you called up to complain about an outage.
    Yes you are a customer but as much respect as you think you deserve, Blizzard is entitled to just as much respect from you and that means not spamming the fuck out of their forums with moronic bullshit. If there is a thread open with your concern (9 times out of 10 there is) then post in that thread. Don't open a new thread and misdirect feedback just because you think you are special. You are hurting your cause not helping it. As for who pays their salaries fuck off. You DO NOT pay a damn thing but a subscription. Blizzard could shut the game down tomorrow and still pay their employees 6 months from now. You are a customer not an investor and sure as hell not anyones boss.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-21 at 06:37 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Koen991 View Post
    How to contradict yourself.. With your brilliant reasoning you should never complain, because well don't pay then?
    Valid complaints are fine but that isn't what he is referring to. There is a difference.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-21 at 06:39 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    This is not quite how it works.

    The community says "there's nothing to do."

    The community wasn't saying "there's nothing to do, so we'll accept ANYTHING that gives us something to do."

    The community statements are incomplete requirements, not complete specifications of what they need to be satisfied.
    And yet in all the daily complaint threads I have yet to see what new content people want to do. All I see are requests for dungeon tabards for rep and no requests for actual new content. So basically they want Wrath/Cata back where we sit around in cities and bitch there is nothing to do because we cheesed the content by using tabards. I can understand why people dislike dailies but I'm not quite sure how regressing back to dungeon grinding is a solution either.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-21 at 06:44 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Illiterate View Post
    It's stupid and unprofessional.


    Regardless, they are paying customers. You don't treat them like shit.
    And you don't treat employees like shit either. Stores kick paying customers out all the time for that. If you can dish it out you can take it.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-21 at 06:47 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    And when they permanently ban those who did, they bite their own foot in the process.

    I'm happy they implemented things I hammered home on the WoW forums as alternatives (especially planting...and I see they used Sims 3 gardening as an example). I'm still looking for fishing leaderboards and various bait that a certain MUD incorporated, which was a nice side-game for those at end-game. These things were popular in other games and would be popular in WoW (as the gamer is no different here than there). Add to all that WoW also needs a shiny system, which even RIFT brought over from EQ2 (one of the most popular side-games in that game, and a very profitable).

    We shouldn't wait for another MMO to lead Blizzard by the nose on features, there's plenty in existence, popular and fun. But Blizzard stubbornly wants to stick it's head in the sand with their ideas, while the other MMOs continue innovating.

    CRZ should've been a crow jewel for Blizzard like LFG and BGs. But it was released at the expense of community. Like arena the implementation of the idea went wrong, as a MMO without a vibrant community is dead at the core (much like a dead tree).
    Let's be honest here. You were banned because you did the same crap there you do here. You pick fights and then deflect and change the subject while saying inflammatory things and then when people tell you to fuck off you claim you want discussion. People on the official forums who provide constructive feedback don't get banned. At all.
    Last edited by xanzul; 2012-11-21 at 01:40 PM.

  8. #228

    Exclamation Saw this same situation with Mythic before.

    Originally Posted by tripleh

    IMO I wish someone would smack the shit out of them everytime they copy and paste the rules on there posts or links to feedback. Neth is really bad about that. Either that or have a bad wave of karma hit them to knock some sense into them and treat customers with some dam respect. Just saying , its pretty stupid how they act like asshats to players that pay there salary from the subs. Any other company would fire them on the spot for treating customers like crap. Imagine if your internet/cable providers customer service treated you the same way every time you called up to complain about an outage.
    Yes you are a customer but as much respect as you think you deserve, Blizzard is entitled to just as much respect from you and that means not spamming the fuck out of their forums with moronic bullshit. If there is a thread open with your concern (9 times out of 10 there is) then post in that thread. Don't open a new thread and misdirect feedback just because you think you are special. You are hurting your cause not helping it. As for who pays their salaries fuck off. You DO NOT pay a damn thing but a subscription. Blizzard could shut the game down tomorrow and still pay their employees 6 months from now. You are a customer not an investor and sure as hell not anyones boss.
    While I agree Blizzard Customer Service reps take a beating, I have to say sometimes some of the flippant comments that are posted by Blizzard Staff bring on the angst themselves.

    Please don't stand up and say " your anti-Blizzard etc " I discussed a ton with Mythic and their head dev. Was my constant talking with him encouraging them to put bindstones in through their game rather than constantly having people ride 20 minutes to their bodies when they died; saved the company and it's servers a ton of wear and tear and bucks.

    Sometimes your subscribers can SEE things the dev just can't. Does that make the dev incompetant, no usually the dev is too CLOSE to the product and gets blinded. It happens.

    Sadly Mythic did the exact same thing that Blizzard is doing now, Mythic's Nerf frontiers which everyone, Beta Testers, players even some in the company were saying " hey this isn't a good idea; it's going to break the game and peeve off portions of the player base." Mythic plunged head long forward.

    The result, a crash in their subscriber base, a ton of hard feelings. Their second chance at MMO success dashed by a player base that had ZERO trust in them from their actions with Nerf frontiers. Sold off, piece meal picked apart and finally "CLOSED." There head dev out of major game production.

    You know some screaming from the sidelines, see the similarities. They are screaming because they actually DO CARE about the company and can't seem to get the company to REALIZE they are in actual danger.

    Think for one minute, do you honestly believe these people would be screaming as hard and as long if they didn't have feelings for Blizzard. Most people who don't care would just say " ah shove the company in question, who cares. " They certainly would not be posting 100's to 1000's of post , they'd post one with a lol in it saying " see ya suckers. " Believe me when it got really bad as Nerf Frontiers came close to release and afterwards - I saw a lot of "see ya sucker posts " for Mythic.

    Blizzard thinks it can't happen to them, guess what Mythic thought and said the exact same thing.
    Last edited by Tharn; 2012-11-21 at 06:20 PM.

  9. #229
    Zarhym is really getting snippy in the No Daily December thread. White knighting and defending the daily shit while the devs sit on their throne and leave him hanging out to dry must get old for him.

    Also, lol at him compiling patch notes and missing half the shit they nerfed. Really gets the "stealth nerf" conspiracy theorists going.

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