Blues Biting Back

[Yig]

Tedious rep grinds, CRZ - all the downsides of a full server with none up the upsides, no desire to play alts in MOP, and broken PVP still?

Blizzard has addressed these issues fairly. At this point, because Blizzard disagrees with people, they are now pretending or just plain wrong about the fact they aren't the majority of players playing this game, no matter how bad you think the game is now, you're not agreed with. And rather than admit this, people focus on anything they can that is negative about Blizzard and they make this seem like they're being pushed around, insulted, or ignored.

Apparently having why they don't agree with you explained is hubris now and lies.

I used to think this community couldn't have gotten worse than it was in Tseric's day, but now it's just like something out of a satire.

[MasterHamster]

CRZ isn't something that's meant to be optional, simple as that. I wish Blizzard could just spell that out one letter at a time, so people can stop bringing it up every 15 minutes

[Kaleredar]

While I do enjoy the occasional snippy comeback from Blizzard representatives, I think they should adopt a more... "stoic" standpoint in general (i.e, "our belief is that ...,") in regards to arguments as a whole, rather than trying to appeal to the individual whiny players again and again... Brevity is the soul of wit. If an issue arises, they should sweep in with a frank "THIS is why we're doing this, THIS is what we hope to achieve, we will be monitoring your constructive feedback, so long."

They should let their standing as a representative and strong conviction of words do the "relating" for them. If (*cough*when) posters DO get out of hand, they should crack down with a quick, stern "that behavior has no place here" attitude about them. While being personal is certainly good for dealing with people willing to be civil and jovial, I feel dealing with the... lower echelons... of the Blizzard forums requires a more impersonal, stoic air from Blizz Reps.

[Wildmoon]

If you are rude to them why you expect them to be polite?

[Manabomb]

To be honest? You guys are right, there are a lot of self righteous, greedy, sick people out there just willing to abuse the system to get their own way. However in the thick of all of this you have people that actually give constructive feedback, address concerns relating to these pathetic mouth breathers and still get shot down because they disagree with, in this case, Blizzard's ideals and path of the game.

I am fully aware that it's "their" game, and that they "can do what they will". However since it's the communities money that pays their salaries, you would think that at this point they would at least try to meet us halfway with things like the ridiculous "mandatory, but not so mandatory, but still kind of mandatory" daily grind, and the horrific implementation and overall distaste CRZ has recieved, especially on faction dominant high pop servers CRZ'd with other servers of the opposite faction. Not to mention the horrible state of pvp and how it's been nigh two months since release and the majority of problems still existing with classes (warriors, frost mages, spriest/other hybrid offhealing, resto shamans being able to be blanket silenced and globaled due to lack of defensive capabilities while silenced) among countless other issues and problems that exist in the 3v3/rbg latter (I don't count 5v5 or 2v2 because honestly, it's painfully and abundantly clear they balance this game around 3v3/rbgs)

*tin foil hat time*

Maybe CRZ was implemented to reduce the population of high pop pvp servers by forcing people to world pvp and get ganked and just waste money transferring/rerolling to a pve server, thus liquidizing transfer revenue and allowing ghostcrawler to afford his mega yacht with his christmas bonus.

*tin foil hat off*

pretty much tl;dr: I have high hopes for mop, especially after the garbage we knew as cata came and went. However these high hopes are soiled by terrible systems and bad implementation and weeks upon months of resets, with hardly any word on any tangible reasoning behind why or when other than "We understand, we are working on it."

[Shekita]

Too bad they didn't start doing this years ago when it mattered.

Why they waited until they ruined the game to start pretending to give a shit is beyond me.

[Kaleredar]

To be honest? You guys are right, there are a lot of self righteous, greedy, sick people out there just willing to abuse the system to get their own way. However in the thick of all of this you have people that actually give constructive feedback, address concerns relating to these pathetic mouth breathers and still get shot down because they disagree with, in this case, Blizzard's ideals and path of the game.

Can you prove though, that Blizzard "ignores them?" Yes, I'm very well aware that Blizzard isn't perfect... For example, I very much dislike them making heroic dungeons into filler pablum. However, as for Blizzard saying "thanks for the ideas, but that's not what we're doing," what would you have them do? Would you rather they just lie? Or would you have them say "thanks for the suggestion, we were totally going to do this other thing, but now we're going to reverse our design entirely because this one guy said something?" I trust that Blizzard looks at feedback... anyone pretending that blizzard "doesn't listen to their fans," (sometimes for the worst) hasn't been paying very close attention to some of the design changes taking place. I can think of very few instances in recent history where Blizzard has made completely unilateral decisions without some section of their fanbase spurring them one way or another. And do keep in mind that, simply because you or some other person you may know does not want something, doesn't mean no one does. And as long as those other "ones" are paying their subscription fees, haven't they as much of a right to Blizzard's direction as someone else? It's at that point the ball enters Blizzard's court, and they have to kick it in the least divisive design direction. Obviously, this does not always work. But people instantly jump and say "Blizzard doesn't listen to anyone (read "doesn't always listen to me,") their design direction is terrible and alienating their fans."

I am fully aware that it's "their" game, and that they "can do what they will". However since it's the communities money that pays their salaries, you would think that at this point they would at least try to meet us halfway

The first problem is saying things like "meet us..." You, and the people that agree with you, do not speak for everyone. It seems blizzard has become hesitant with how much they listen to the supposed "overall" player base, likely based on past things they listened to like "Give us hard heroics back," "Heroics are too hard, give us easy heroics" "give us BC rep grinds back," "Rep Grinds are too time consuming," etc, etc, etc. Other such "vocal minority" gems that have arisen and have luckily past into obscurity include "Give us BC/Vanilla only servers" and "reinstate strict tier progression" and such things. These people can be just as vocal, should Blizzard make huge design changes to meet ALL of them halfway?

with things like the ridiculous "mandatory, but not so mandatory, but still kind of mandatory" daily grind, and the horrific implementation and overall distaste CRZ has recieved, especially on faction dominant high pop servers CRZ'd with other servers of the opposite faction. Not to mention the horrible state of pvp and how it's been nigh two months since release and the majority of problems still existing with classes (warriors, frost mages, spriest/other hybrid offhealing, resto shamans being able to be blanket silenced and globaled due to lack of defensive capabilities while silenced) among countless other issues and problems that exist in the 3v3/rbg latter (I don't count 5v5 or 2v2 because honestly, it's painfully and abundantly clear they balance this game around 3v3/rbgs)

As for CRZ, perhaps this isn't the best place, but there are many, many people out there who don't care one way or another about cross realm zones. Myself included. In fact, I'm pretty sure there's a large group of people who actually LIKE cross-realm zones. Now, there are some legitimate concerns about economy issues for small servers, but for the people complaining "I can't lord over rare spawns anymore" or "now the intended number of people are in the zone, and there's too much PvP on this PvP server..." they need a reality check.

The "dailies are so so required" argument has been done to death. Dailies are fine the way they are, at least "gear-wise." They're intended for people who can't raid to eventually pick up some nice pieces of gear to help advance their character, or for people to get some interesting flavor items or perks for their profession. That people cannot seem to efficaciously set limits for themselves, or have to have everything NOW NOW NOW, and end up burning out on them is on them is squarely the fault of the person doing them, not Blizzard's fault "because they don't make it so you can't." You can start progressing through raids in heroic dungeon gear (they were balanced that way,) and start getting actual raiding gear that way, which yes, is better than rep and LFR gear. That people seem to think you have to do ALL of these things, for whatever reason, is again, not the fault of Blizzard for not "not making us think so," especially when Blizzard has SAID, repeatedly, that this is not the case.
Could dailies be more fun/interesting/story driven? Sure. And that's a decent suggestion. But it's an entirely separate concern.

As for PvP... it's always been that way. That's not good, but claiming this imbalance is some "new turn of events" is an error. Unfortunately, with PvP and PvE intertwined so thoroughly, and with so many different classes and specs, any balancing is basically reduced to a whack-a-mole system of nerfs and buffs. While this is indeed a bad design, this has always been their design.

with hardly any word on any tangible reasoning behind why or when other than "We understand, we are working on it."

Except they DO offer explanations. Repeatedly. They end up saying the same thing four or five times, it seems. Simply because you, or someone else, does not agree with their reasoning does not "not make it an explanation."

[tiporispit]

Do you think the people at the Kmart service desk give a rat's ass about your complaint? They listen to you bitch, and return your money, but all they hear is Blah, Blah, Blah. Why do geeks on the internet think Blizzard customer service would be any different? They're regular people making $20 an hour to listen to you cry copious tears. They read off their cheat cards to address your concerns, then go home to their wife and kids at night. WoW is your life. It's their job.

[Vokal]

Their job is not to "bite back".

Their job is to address concerns people may have, their job is not to tell the people complaining to shut up and play or leave. That is bad PR and bad PR is bad business. Devs biting back may make for great soap opera material for you, but in the end its grown working men behaving unprofessionally and acting out like a teenager 10 years younger than them would. It makes themselves, other blues and in the end Blizzard look bad.

Anyone who finds this type of behavior "refreshing" and "humorous" has a lot of growing up to do in my opinion.

[Lifendeath]

These kind of posts are a fallacy it really comes down too do like the plate of shit your handed or are you ready to be told what's what.

[strangerdanger]

I love it. People on the forums need to realize they only represent a small portion of the wow population.

[Lifendeath]

Their job is not to "bite back".

Their job is to address concerns people may have, their job is not to tell the people complaining to shut up and play or leave. That is bad PR and bad PR is bad business. Devs biting back may make for great soap opera material for you, but in the end its grown working men behaving unprofessionally and acting out like a teenager 10 years younger than them would. It makes themselves, other blues and in the end Blizzard look bad.

Anyone who finds this type of behavior "refreshing" and "humorous" has a lot of growing up to do in my opinion.

Poster Child right here. These kind of posts are a fallacy it really comes down too do like the plate of shit your handed or are you ready to be told what's what.

[syn1k]

Yep. I always LOVE when they're pewpewing.

I especially enjoyed the Cinder kitten thread.

you enjoyed that their system is so horribly set up they cant add new items to their store when every they want to, and that it takes them 2 months to make any kind of changes to the game? and then basically telling people they are dumb for thinking that changes can happen in a reasonable amount of time.

yeah that was hilarious.

[Vokal]

Poster Child right here.

Comedic irony right here how that statement applies to you in relation to what I said rather than the other way around.

These kind of posts are a fallacy it really comes down too do like the plate of shit your handed or are you ready to be told what's what.

More irony. You fit the description for the type of people I described perfectly.

Given the tone of your post, I think the truth of my words cut deep into a fanboy like yourself.

All I can say is that these are not the official wow forums and you have no one to impress here. Your text won't turn green here if your nose turns brown.

Infracted



---------- Post added 2012-11-17 at 01:16 PM ----------

you enjoyed that their system is so horribly set up they cant add new items to their store when every they want to, and that it takes them 2 months to make any kind of changes to the game? and then basically telling people they are dumb for thinking that changes can happen in a reasonable amount of time.

yeah that was hilarious.

^ This basically.

[Roflifier]

I wonder about something: why is it acceptable for us that a customer should complain about a defective car, bad hotel conditions, a rude waiter, lousy internet connections to the ISP, but when it comes to video games, the general reaction is to tell the complainer to STFU and to mock him?
Interesting.

If you had a car that worked perfectly fine, but went and complained to the engineers that made it that you don't like which side the exhaust pipe is on, and that they're retarded for putting it on the side they put it on, they're going to laugh at you too.

[syn1k]

If you had a car that worked perfectly fine, but went and complained to the engineers that made it that you don't like which side the exhaust pipe is on, and that they're retarded for putting it on the side they put it on, they're going to laugh at you too.

are you trying to say wow works perfectly fine? i think trolling is against forum tos.

[Lifendeath]

Comedic irony right here how that statement applies to you in relation to what I said rather than the other way around.




More irony. You fit the description for the type of people I described perfectly.



Given the tone of your post, I think the truth of my words cut deep into a fanboy like yourself.

All I can say is that these are not the official wow forums and you have no one to impress here. Your text won't turn green here if your nose turns brown.

Infracted



---------- Post added 2012-11-17 at 01:16 PM ----------



^ This basically.

Vindication is so sweet. enjoy the ban bitch. Just because i defend something makes me a fanboy. more like your cynicism makes you blind to rationale arguments.

Infracted - ML

[scorpious1109]

But WoW IS defective or not providing what's intended

Fixed. I haven't had/heard of so many bugs and issues since before MoP. I think the concept and idea was great in theory, but at the last minute Blizz changed their minds on half of it all, and it's been questionable content since release, with Blues getting more and more snarky like it's the players fault their game is broken.

[jahasafrat]

I like that the Blues are showing some spine on the forums. Having been in customer service for over ten years now, it's refreshing to see people getting called out on their bullshit.

[Surfd]

Tedious rep grinds, CRZ - all the downsides of a full server with none up the upsides, no desire to play alts in MOP, broken PVP still, and hilariously stupid design decisions even after "NEXT EXPANSION WILL FIX IT!"

Tedious rep grinds that are not in any way mandatory (or, for that matter, really all that "tedious")? Do tell. My main is currently revered with every one of the new factions (and has been for 2 weeks now), and exalted with Tillers and Cloud Serpent riders, and I dont even do half the dailys every day. Which is all anyone really "needs" since all the high impact stuff (epic valor gear) is tied to revered or lower reps. Sure, the grind to full exalted with every faction is a bit of work, but since the rewards at that point are all cosmetic, it is pretty much a non issue.

CRZ. Sure, it has bugs. So did phazing when they first started playing with that. Anyone with a functioning brain would not expect otherwise. And CRZ was never really intended to fix the major downsides of being on a dead realm. Nothing Blizzard can do short of forced server merges will ever fix dead realms, since the only other option is opening up free server moves from high pop realms and hopeing people voluntairily move (which, lets face it, is about as likely to happen as someone willingly letting someone else kick them in the balls).

No desire to play alts? Funny, I have 1 90, and 3 level 87-89 alts, and nothing is stopping me from enjoying those alts. The only reason I dont have more 90's at the moment is that I am waiting for the new patch to come so I can take full advantage of the rep-boost from being revered when i do Towlong and Dreadwastes on them.

Broken PvP? Has pvp EVER been balanced?

Hilariously stupid design decisions? Like what? I havent run into anything in the game yet that I would classify as being truely a "stupid design decision" other then maybe lack of flying while dead for those few places you can find yourself unable to reach your corpse when you get ganked, and maybe putting a rare spawn mob within spitting distance of the Alliance PvP vendor, makeing it nearly impossible for a horde character to kill the guy without getting swarmed by PvP geared alliance within seconds.

---------- Post added 2012-11-17 at 09:11 AM ----------

Why would that even matter?

Blizzard considers the age group that plays the game and their ability, especially legally to fight back. You goto EA, they have lawsuits all the time, because the age groups that play some of their games are higher...and they understand the legal system.

Blizzard takes age and that the MMOs aren't producing (yet) a yank-you-from-your-social-network MMO. When the latter happens it's much easier to settle in a new game as nothing is holding them to WoW. That's how people drift back to WoW, despite they really don't want to play the game. They're there for social obligations.

So, yeah Blizzard does take players for granted.

Yes, right. Blizzard is totally takeing their players for granted because they know their playerbase is too young to sue them............how exactly is that even remotely approaching a rational arguement? I mean, would you care to enlighten us as to what, exactly, you think the average age of a Blizzard gamer is??!? Here is a hint, 50% or more of us were probably in our mid to late teens when warcraft 2 was first released. You do the math on that one.

Also, did you really just try to compare Blizzard to EA? I mean, come on. People sue EA because they have a history of releasing shit products, and a history of shitting all over their customer base because they know that the fans of their insanely derrivitave FPS and Sports titles are hooked on the things like cokeheads, and will take just about any abuse to get their next hit. Pretty sure you cant say the same thing about Blizzard.

Seriously, I really think your tinfoil hat is on a bit too tight there, and you really need to get over your forum grudge fueled hate-on for Blizzard.