I did the first week of Heart of Fear (normal modes) pretty decent as frost (have rank 1 on most the fights..) but a major part of me being fire is getting the heroic elegon trinket, most of the HoF fights need you to use frost bomb which obviously doesn't proc it. Another big point is that fire is pretty much trivial to play optimally compared to frost, especially during progression when you need to focus on fight mechanics and staying alive.
I know you mention these factors but you don't seem to actually give them weight, you just agree that they are there and move on saying what you've been saying the entire time.
1. Better players are playing Fire. It's just a fact, look at the top 100 world guilds, 74% Fire, 25% Frost and 1% Arcane (must have been a joke). There are definitely good players playing Frost, but not enough to compete with Fire from a logs standpoint.
2. RNG. This ties into my first point. More people are playing fire, which increases the chances for good RNG Fire attempts. It's not a secret that most WoL Fire parses are crazy RNG parses. If we were to look at a given persons prior 5 attempts to that kill, I'm sure the average would be closer to where we see frost.
Overall, yes fire is ahead, but not by as much as you're making it out to be. A lot of the fights currently in the game have cleave that will synergize well with fire. On single target fights fire is not too far ahead barring favorable RNG. And that is part of fire. What you don't see on WoL is the same exact person who has a top 10 parse with 120k one week, doing 90k the next kill. Whereas frost spec is extremely consistent in comparison to fire.
Yeah, let's just go ahead and cherry pick the data that proves my point, and ignore the rest. Let's also just ignore the fact that certain specs are better at some fights than others. Yep, lookin good. Keep it up.
---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 03:28 PM ----------
---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 03:28 PM ----------
What I meant when I said I don't think one spec pulling ahead is a problem is that it would be impossible to balance the three specs evenly throughout all gear levels.
Having 2 or even 3 specs that are equal at 450ilvl and 500ilvl is just too much hassle, and imo it's just too much to ask to have several specs that perform equal.
What really matters is class balance, and as long as we have one spec that's in the top 5 I don't think there's much to complain about damage wise.
after writing this i became unsure if the Hit check occurs when we start a cast or when it finish cast? if the latter is true then my comment above is false, though it is such a short time window any way that it should account for maybe 1-2 ticks and you should only have 2 epi's not getting stunned so that would be 2-4 ticks for the entire fight, and that wont explain the huge difference in the two specs atm.
Personally i am glad fire is on top, because if Frost was best i would be "forced" to change my spec as any min/maxer would. And i dislike frost and love fire. I know this is the other way around for frost lovers and it is indeed sad the gap is so big.
Not sure if it's been said yet, but this is what I think: Fire has more potential, so let's say a skilled player can do *slightly* more dps with Fire. He wants the best possible dps so he chooses fire. A less skilled/geared/experienced player is more likely not to care about a small difference so he picks what he likes best (possibly Frost), but remember that he would be doing less dps than the skilled player with both specs, but he chose Frost so on WoL it looks like Frost is doing worse, while actually Frost players are worse.
Sorry if that didn't make much sense, right now at 3am it makes sense to me. xD
I think Blizzard wants frost to do well in pve, that's what the water elemental FoF change is for, that's what the buff to frost armor before the expac was for. I'd be surprised if they didn't do something to level the two out. I've been in a sort of tough situation with my guild as well, its bad enough just to get people to accept that frost belongs in a raid at all while trying to show them that it can be competitive. When I lose to the Fire Mage everyone wants to know why I'm waisting time as frost, though when I beat him out its decidedly quiet on vent. I could absolutely go fire but the rotation is not fun to me, I think frost is much more engaging and I hope it ends up being one of those specs that rewards exceptional play, fire can go on being the herp derp spec.
I did what I could on opening night of Terrace. Scored a Loshan. Hopefully 4pc will help Frost's scaling problems:
Right now the top 10 dps across all classes on 25M Protectors is 9 fire mages and 1 frost mage, me :P
After getting Loshan things are looking better. Maybe 4pc will help out even more. 50% icy veins vs. 20% combustion CD...
Final hit check occurs when the projectile hits the targets, at which time buffs and debuffs on the target are factored in. This is how a rogue can cloak or a warrior can reflect a projectile thats in midair. Epicenter is a debuff on the player that refreshes every ~1s so you'll want to finish your casts just after it fades.
---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 03:19 AM ----------
His 'opinion' came off as trolling because it really is *that* counterproductive to the conversation.
---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 03:21 AM ----------
---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 03:25 AM ----------
Whether or not the specs should be roughly equivalent is a matter of debate - for a long time in wow it was not the case, but it is not an unrealistic expectation in reality. Base values and scaling exist so they can be tweaked to affect these balance issues.
No I don't mean that cleaving is useless for your main target DPS (it is useful since it gives you procs like you said), but your global DPS is inflated by the damage of these cleaves.
Anyway good to have people trying to play Frost despite the supremacy of Fire, I used to do that on my alt in Cata too.
Brain Freeze will only proc from the most recently cast Mage Bomb, you don't get extra procs by cleaving with it.