So many people are BM, so many people want to be MM and many may go to MM after BM nerf. Why do people ignore survival as a good spec for PVP? I'm currently useing Survival for PVP and i'm most always top damage in BG's. I have abilities to counter different classes, my damage isn't bad after all as I said i'm topping the damage charts in BG's most always. Survival hunter traps are great for PVP with the 4 second hold when trap breaks. I guess what i'm getting at is why do people just shut out survival for PVP as if it's no good? Don't tell me the damage sucks cause thats not true. I've dueled a few BM hunters and beat them as survival also so it's not like BM is so mighty compared to the other specs.
Wishing to belive here (I love Survi since Vanilla) but need some enlightment, so im going to ask you some questions and situations:
- Im needing a lot of self freedoms as BM (trinket, BW, disengage with posthaste), to counter mostly warriors and others classes in certain situations; Survi doesnt have that extra "dual-trinket", how do you manage that?
- Needing big burst in some situations, not just a common rotation; only viable burst CD now is BW, does survi have something similar?
- I find binding arrow very situational and not always triggers if target knows to play, so intimidate is my friend; any stun or similar CC in survi to cripple a target 3 secs?
- And CCing in general, can you do it without anyone dispelling the trap or sting? (Well this situation is a trap, i cant in BM neither).
- Whats the critical chance you have (in %) when the party is setted up? Do you reach that 25-30% survi needed in Cata? Do you think is not needed in MoP?
- You comment you reach almost always top damage; how do you manage that? Wpuldnt for example two frost mages win, debuffing together? Or wouldnt win a rolling DOT class like WLs or even DKs? How do you manage to reach that much damage?
If you could answer those questions i would be delighted!
To answer your first question concerning warriors and such classes, your pet you choose is very important as survival. The bat is the over all choice since it affects all classes. I macro the bat stun so I can use it when need be, also the Horent is another good choice with a shorter cool down but need to be in melee range. The crane has a 4 second sleep or the monkey a 4 second blind. All these help when you are stunned....yes you can use these abilties while you are stunned, it is a life saver at times.
Burst? Well no Survival does not have the BM burst, but has long lasting damage. How do I burst? When my explosive shot proc's and I get two free explosive shots also I chose to use "Thrill of the Hunt" Combine 3 free Arcane shots with 2 free Explosive shots, thats not bad burst with out mentioning useing other abilities. Lets not forget that "Thrill of the Hunt" can proc again as with my explosive shots whiling I am useing my free ones.
I don't ever use "Binding Shot" I use Silence shot. Survival has the advantage with traps, when they break they hold the player in place for 4 seconds. You can use two traps, Snake and Ice trap, both hold the player in place for 4 seconds and have a much shorter cool down the "Binding Shot" and can be used one after the other.
I'd have to check my Crit when in a Party. Get back to you on that. No I don't think it is needed then again i'm not sure what my crit is at when in a party...let me get back to you on this.
How do I manage top damage most of the time? Survival is under estimated, the damage is great when you keep up Black arrow Serpent Sting and your explosive shots proc and your "Thrill of the Hunt" proc's. It is almost endless...yes I won't lie it from time to time does not proc, but that is rare at least for me, I always seem to have either free Arcane Shots or free Explosive shots.
Lastly, even in one on one situations I am destroying classes such as warriors and rogues, Dk's Monks so forth. No I don't always win, i'm not pvp master but I know how to use Survival and people under estimate it.
---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 06:20 PM ----------
What good is BM once you live past the burst? What good is BM if their pet is being controlled/CC'd? Once this patch goes live BM will be hurting, they base a lot of their damage off their pet and if that pet is controlled by the enemy BM loses a lot of their damage. Survival and even MM for that matter can continue on even with the lost of a pet. But even with out the nerf coming, Survival in my opinion is just as good if not better then BM, but with nerf coming to BM, Survival will be better then BM.
Last edited by Scum bucket; 2012-11-13 at 05:23 PM.
I see alot of people mentioning bg's and while they are probably right when they say they are topping the dps but what worries me is arena viablity of surv. Traps are great when your surv dont get me wrong but you just dont have on demand burst that wil make people pop cd's. Some may argue that LNL procs are your burst and while your right i get the feeling its not enough when im fighting good geared peeps atleast. Im not saying its impossible to play as surv in arena but currently i feel its not ideal if you see how bursty the current arena scene is.
And i definitly agree on the fact that people are all ranting about MM and it definitly seems like SURV is in dark corner hiding from everyone, while it could definitly use some attention ^^
Shinoz, I just started arena as survival. Two things, one I will admit if you do 2's as double dps it will be far more difficult as survival because of weak self heals, I do use exhilaration or whatever it is called. However put with a healer in 2's I have no trouble at all, even vs other teams with a healer. I can't prove it with my arena rateing as I just started arena and have been going from a dps partner to a healing partner. But I can say put with a healer, survival stands up as well as any other hunter spec or class. Survival does have it's own form of burst as I described above in a previous post, no it is not as strong as BM's burst but survival does have it's burst and it works. I just personally don't think people either know how to use survival or they just are not giving it the full chance it needs to prove itself.
Im sure you can make surv work man so more power to you for sure, all im saying is that currently im playing surv because i like it and i never tend to go with fotm spec/classes. That being said i agree that we can make it work but have to deal with alot more for alot less atleast compaired to other classes/spec im not QQ here, i mean i can live with it and i kinda like playing a spec that is somewhat underplayed. Small changes would make surv alot more attractive in pvp but if we wil ever see them thats another story.
A few examples would be : BA and exp trap link is one that would be nice, remove the lnl proc from exp trap if need be the knockback can be very helpfull on some arenas. Making LNL into one big exp shot would make me drewl but prolly never gonna happen ^^, might be a bit op i dunno just throwing out thoughts here
For suggestions I have this 'small' one, a step up from unlocking BA and ExT:
Unlock ALL traps!
Not only BA and a glyphed ExT (has to be the glyphed version or it gives pve raid dps issues if doubled up).
But also unlink Freezing from frost.
Last that I checked LnL had an internal cooldown, so that has to stay (else you get endless LnL procs).
But imagine the extra possibilities if you could use frost like now, basically overlap it with itself, but still be able to use freezing trap every 22 seconds. Regardless of frost usage... With LnL on demand from both, at least every 10 seconds.
More entrapment too, since you're not wasting freezing traps instead of frost traps.
Survival is called a trap specc, but it's not that when BA is linked to ExT.
Unlink ALL traps and you have yourself an incredible cc specc.
I would actually think it could be OP against melee, but most melee are moving about rather well I take it in MoP.
That's what I would do.
A 'small' fix with HUMONGOUS consequences.