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  1. #101
    I dunno if it's been linked here, but Alex Brazie (yes, the same one who got fired a couple weeks ago) did a blog post relevant to this discussion.

    Those who make the claim that WoW was a better game back in the day would do good to read it. To summarize, the game comes off as worse now because the stimuli that initially hooked you into the game aren't as effective anymore. When you started and everything was fresh, you wanted to hit that next level, you went gaga over a new piece of gear or spell, and felt accomplished when you downed a troublesome boss. If you ever completed a legendary, it was a magical feeling, like you were on top of the world.

    But eventually, the feelings you get after each shiny thing start to dwindle. When a boss went on farm, it was less like defeating an old nemesis, more like stabbing it in the gut and walking out with some more loot. In an attempt to shift the blame on these feelings from the player to something else, it's easy for them to blame Blizzard for changing the game and making it unappealing to them, when in actuality nothing that Blizzard does will remove their ennui. They've run their course, and it's time for them to move on.

    That's why, no matter when you start playing, the game was at its best then...according to you. Sure, those that started in Classic or BC mock those who claim that Wrath was the best expansion, but that's only because the former started earlier and were deep in ennui's throes by the time the latter started playing. Down the line, there WILL be players who claim that they had the most fun in Cata.

    Now, I'm not saying you should agree with every decision Blizzard makes. Far from it, criticism helps the devs understand problems or concerns. But at the same time, you should question whether your dissatisfaction with WoW is specifically due to a particular decision, or if you're just worn out. I started in Wrath, and back then, I gladly spent countless hours questing, dungeon grinding, raiding, and more, because everything was so fresh and new to me. Cata began to wear me down, and while part of that was due to a feel of a lack of content, and another part was my personal situation involving a crumbling guild trying to hold itself together, a third part was just the fact that I was getting tired of the game. It just wasn't as magical as it had once been. Today, I don't play as often as I used to because I don't want to get burnt out so quickly. The game is just fine nowadays and (I believe) is better off development-wise than it was in Cata.

    In short, if you played back in the beginning, you're just not going to get those feelings you did when you started, no matter what. Find something else to play. It's okay to let go.

  2. #102
    The Lightbringer ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dblbaconator View Post
    I dunno if it's been linked here, but Alex Brazie (yes, the same one who got fired a couple weeks ago) did a blog post relevant to this discussion.

    Those who make the claim that WoW was a better game back in the day would do good to read it. To summarize, the game comes off as worse now because the stimuli that initially hooked you into the game aren't as effective anymore. When you started and everything was fresh, you wanted to hit that next level, you went gaga over a new piece of gear or spell, and felt accomplished when you downed a troublesome boss. If you ever completed a legendary, it was a magical feeling, like you were on top of the world.

    But eventually, the feelings you get after each shiny thing start to dwindle. When a boss went on farm, it was less like defeating an old nemesis, more like stabbing it in the gut and walking out with some more loot. In an attempt to shift the blame on these feelings from the player to something else, it's easy for them to blame Blizzard for changing the game and making it unappealing to them, when in actuality nothing that Blizzard does will remove their ennui. They've run their course, and it's time for them to move on.

    That's why, no matter when you start playing, the game was at its best then...according to you. Sure, those that started in Classic or BC mock those who claim that Wrath was the best expansion, but that's only because the former started earlier and were deep in ennui's throes by the time the latter started playing. Down the line, there WILL be players who claim that they had the most fun in Cata.

    Now, I'm not saying you should agree with every decision Blizzard makes. Far from it, criticism helps the devs understand problems or concerns. But at the same time, you should question whether your dissatisfaction with WoW is specifically due to a particular decision, or if you're just worn out. I started in Wrath, and back then, I gladly spent countless hours questing, dungeon grinding, raiding, and more, because everything was so fresh and new to me. Cata began to wear me down, and while part of that was due to a feel of a lack of content, and another part was my personal situation involving a crumbling guild trying to hold itself together, a third part was just the fact that I was getting tired of the game. It just wasn't as magical as it had once been. Today, I don't play as often as I used to because I don't want to get burnt out so quickly. The game is just fine nowadays and (I believe) is better off development-wise than it was in Cata.

    In short, if you played back in the beginning, you're just not going to get those feelings you did when you started, no matter what. Find something else to play. It's okay to let go.

    This has some validity, but it's ignoring some things too. The game much is less complex now. There are no more big, complicated dungeons to figure out, at all. There are virtually no long quest chains (maybe 1 per legendary, if that?) to take you across the world. Dungeons and raids are far easier to access. The world is a more forgiving and less dangerous place. (I'm not playing MoP, so maybe that has changed in Pandaria.) There are no more weapons like Benediction or Rhok'delar. Class quests are now short and easy. Profession related quests seem confined to dailies. There's no more hunting for that elusive trainer, be it for enchanting, specialized leatherworking, or a unique and awesome demon summoning.

    There are more, but I think that gets the gist of it across. The blog post you linked to claims the "the game hasn't changed". It has. Drastically. WoW is not the same game as it once was. That doesn't mean it's bad, but it is different. Just because I don't like a new version of something doesn't mean I'm bored with it. I still play tabletop rpgs that are 10 or 20 years old. I like D&D 3.5 (and currently play Pathfinder), but not D&D 4. Does that mean I'm bored with D&D? Of course not.

    Why is it so difficult to understand that 1) the game has changed, and 2) some people don't like the changes?

  3. #103
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    nah, the biggest thing hurting the game is Bliz. They are being controlling by directing players into certain types of content whether they want to do it or not. That may have been fine 8years ago, but nowadays with other MMOs out there that allow players the freedom to play how they want to play, it just seams a very outdated philosophy.
    No game will ever kill wow. Though Blizard themselves are making a pretty damm good attempt lately.

    THE FIRST RULE OF BRAWLERS GUILD IS YOU DO NOT GET INVITED TO BRAWLERS GUILD.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Evilananazz View Post
    So why am I enjoying myself more on the vanilla server i'm currently playing on?
    Nostalgia?
    Having fun walking everywhere? Grinding 200 mobs per quest? Getting 1shot by nearly every class?

    How long have you been playing? The shine will wear off.
    Also, Private servers are a no-no.
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  5. #105
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    If you told me when Cata came out that in 2 years we'd be calling for BC back, I'd have laughed.

    Yet here we are. Let me tell you, BC sucked. The only people who want it back are those who didn't play during it. They don't want harder raids, they want less raiders. They don't want fewer dailies, they want fewer geared people.

    It's a bunch of wrath-era elitist jerks who suddenly realized their shiny phoenix isn't earning them the sake street cred as someone with an old mount. And they're using rose-colored goggles to hide their selfishness.
    Unsubscribed as of 03/10/2014.

    If you dislike where WoW is headed in your mind, quit. Really. Sitting around complaining about "promises" that may or may not have been made isn't doing anything to help your cause. It's just making you look more and more like the constantly complaining and perpetually offended.

  6. #106
    I can't help but read a thread like this from someone with a join date of 2011, and connect the dots that 'you didn't play Vanilla / BC.' Your experience of the game IS after BC etc. How can you argue that it is purely 'nostalgia', when you haven't experienced just how good that old content was. It just might be as good as people say. One thing is for certain, there just isn't anything as epic feeling, as a full 40 man raid running down the ramp to engage Onyxia back during Vanilla. This isn't pure nostalgia - it's simply true for me.
    "Video games only exist, so that idiots have something to be good at" - Joe Hildebrand

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Byniri View Post
    I'm getting quite sick of it.

    I think extreme nostalgia is something that is killing gaming today in general, but it's especially bad in WoW. Something that stated out in Classic/BC is changed for the better? LOLITSUCKSBC/CLASSICWASBETTERBLIZZISAJOKE. Every single little damn thing that is changed is automatically slammed by idiots with rose-tinted glasses JUST because it's different from something in Classic/BC. I'm rather sick of it.

    Some nostalgia is fine. Heck I have it sometimes while exploring through Northrend, we all do. The thing that annoys me is when people are downright OBSESSED about every single little thing that happened in BC/Classic (even though most of it has to deal with the people they played with), and refuse to accept ANY change to that model, even if it's obviously better.

    Extreme nostalgia BS is one of the things that's killing the game the most.
    Here's an idea; try not giving a crap what anyone else thinks. You'll find the game much more enjoyable.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Byniri View Post
    I'm getting quite sick of it.

    I think extreme nostalgia is something that is killing gaming today in general, but it's especially bad in WoW. Something that stated out in Classic/BC is changed for the better? LOLITSUCKSBC/CLASSICWASBETTERBLIZZISAJOKE. Every single little damn thing that is changed is automatically slammed by idiots with rose-tinted glasses JUST because it's different from something in Classic/BC. I'm rather sick of it.

    Some nostalgia is fine. Heck I have it sometimes while exploring through Northrend, we all do. The thing that annoys me is when people are downright OBSESSED about every single little thing that happened in BC/Classic (even though most of it has to deal with the people they played with), and refuse to accept ANY change to that model, even if it's obviously better.

    Extreme nostalgia BS is one of the things that's killing the game the most.
    I agree that the nostalgia sentiment gets out of hand a lot of the time, but the nature of interactions with people which you have keenly identified as why people miss TBC(and I agree with you) was a product of the difficulty and investment the game required. Today you can plow through the content with very little social interest and you get a lot more free agents popping in and out of guilds etc, the sense of community has kind of taken a dive, I don't really blame people for wanting to bring back the old times etc and lashing out at these changes that make everything super accessible. The very factor you have identified is what has changed the most I think over time as a result of the overall philosophy evolving hence nostalgia.

  9. #109
    Why anyone sitting on their arse all day playing computer games can feel proud of their achievement.
    Simply beggars belief.

    The less grind in the game the better.

    As for dailies I wont be doing them, Just like I never did any rep grinds in Vanilla.

    If the only fun left in the game is pissing other players off, then bring it on.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    Why is it so difficult to understand that 1) the game has changed, and 2) some people don't like the changes?
    because it goes hand in hand with the players who also changed, so it's unfair to put it all on the game because even if it'd have stayed exactly the same the shine would have still worn off and people would be complaining.
    "The fact that you don't get it or like it is fine. The fact that you wanna ruin it for everyone else - that's why you're a cocksucker." - Bill Hicks
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    The playerbase has been desiring this for years and when it's finally here, everyone wants to grab a pitchfork. Ridiculous. This community is disgustingly toxic.

  11. #111
    Bloodsail Admiral Sturmbringe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byniri View Post
    I'm getting quite sick of it.

    I think extreme nostalgia is something that is killing gaming today in general, but it's especially bad in WoW. Something that stated out in Classic/BC is changed for the better? LOLITSUCKSBC/CLASSICWASBETTERBLIZZISAJOKE. Every single little damn thing that is changed is automatically slammed by idiots with rose-tinted glasses JUST because it's different from something in Classic/BC. I'm rather sick of it.

    Some nostalgia is fine. Heck I have it sometimes while exploring through Northrend, we all do. The thing that annoys me is when people are downright OBSESSED about every single little thing that happened in BC/Classic (even though most of it has to deal with the people they played with), and refuse to accept ANY change to that model, even if it's obviously better.

    Extreme nostalgia BS is one of the things that's killing the game the most.
    Vanilla and TBC experience was just better from today's WoW experience in almost every single way, so people want that back. Basically people want Vanilla and TBC servers. If we got that, I doubt I'd play MoP as a veteran player.
    NINJA TURTLES as the next playable WoW race/class combo. WoW has got Kung Fu Pandas, Pokemon and recently even Transformers in it, so I don't see how Ninja Turtles would be any less pathetic than current "WoW" is.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byniri View Post
    I'm getting quite sick of it.

    I think extreme nostalgia is something that is killing gaming today in general, but it's especially bad in WoW. Something that stated out in Classic/BC is changed for the better? LOLITSUCKSBC/CLASSICWASBETTERBLIZZISAJOKE. Every single little damn thing that is changed is automatically slammed by idiots with rose-tinted glasses JUST because it's different from something in Classic/BC. I'm rather sick of it.

    Some nostalgia is fine. Heck I have it sometimes while exploring through Northrend, we all do. The thing that annoys me is when people are downright OBSESSED about every single little thing that happened in BC/Classic (even though most of it has to deal with the people they played with), and refuse to accept ANY change to that model, even if it's obviously better.

    Extreme nostalgia BS is one of the things that's killing the game the most.
    I'll be picking your post apart here. Don't worry though, I won't go grammar nazi on you.

    Extreme nostalgia is killing gaming -- How exactly is that? Oh no, personal preferences, kill it with fire! So you're saying that people who played the original games of a series, claim them to be better, and try shining bad light onto the newer editions? Sorry, but it's not as widespread as you make it sound. 'OMG THE NEW POKEMON GAMES ARE RUINING MY CHILDHOOD!'<- Never heard that one before.

    Everything that was changed within WoW is being slammed by ''idiots''. People don't like change, that's a fact. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/heidi-...b_1072702.html
    You claim nostalgic people to be idiots, but it's a feeling we all have, so aren't we all idiotic then? I'm getting rather sick of you already :P

    Oh, so now it's alright to be nostalgic, I'm getting mixed signals here.

    Extreme nostalgia is ''killing the game''. Alright so this one is fairly easy - people have been claiming that the sky was falling ever since classic. Every single patch, 1.x included, many people equipped the doomsayer attitude, (HINT: PEOPLE DON'T LIKE CHANGE) it's been here all along.

    So all in all, a standard ''I don't like X type of players, so I'm gonna bash them without a second thought'' kind of thread.

    Ignorance at it's finest. I'll say it again; Oh no! Personal preferences, kill it with fire!
    Last edited by Grievuuz; 2012-11-14 at 10:23 AM.
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  13. #113
    Bullshit. Vanilla was a completely different game. I LOVED vanilla. Having to actually go out in the WORLD of Warcraft. Do I find all these dungeon finders and bg queues convenient? Sure they're convenient, but they also completely kill any feeling of immersion that came with actually going out in the world and encountering other players going their separate ways. Going to Crossroads on my way to WSG and bumping into alliance. PvPing with/against people who were actually on my server. Raiding Ironforge and killing those same alliance that I just fought against in AV the previous day. Seeing people slowly rank up and actually knowing who was on my server (including the opposite faction). Fighting Alliance all over Azeroth, from STV to Badlands, Hillsbrad, Blackrock Mountain, Barrens, Tanaris. Small scale wars outside of dungeon portals...

    None of this stuff exists anymore. People who say world pvp was all about ganking lowbies didn't experience world pvp. There was server community, people were polite and helpful to eachother because reputation mattered. Now people just queue up for their instanced content and just cruise through with random faceless people from other servers that might as well be (and in some cases are) bots.

    Sure getting 40 man raids together was tedious. Getting attuned to raids seemed like pain, but you felt like you reached a milestone once you finally finished that quest chain and could say "I can enter Onyxia's Lair now". Yeah ok so a lot of people didn't get to see Raid content. I'm sure they could have come up with a better alternative than LFR though. Scale down raid sizes to 10-25, add different difficulty options, whatever. Why kill any feeling of server community though?

  14. #114
    I agree by 100%. I just can't stand people who want to tell me that classic/bc were better in every aspect.
    ESPECIALLY when people that don't play nowadays post stupid comments on youtube how bosses were so much harder
    in the old days. Yeah, dispel 24/7, rebuff 24/7 run out with living bomb. Rest is Tank&Spank. I really can't tell how hard I rage
    when I see someone posting shit like that.
    On the other hand, I like to be nostalgic when it comes to the roleplaying aspect and the completely other kind of fun you had in WoW
    when playing it the first few months compared to the fun you have today.
    But obviously, this relates way more to the fact that players evolve when they play a game for
    many years than to Blizzard ruining everything since they introduced flying mounts.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Masterpd85 View Post
    because you fear the complexities that have helped WoW evolve.


    no one knows why you play it, why don't you elaborate for us.
    I could elaborate, but that was not my point.

    The point is that not EVERYTHING is extreme nostalgia and whatever you guys make up for us who actually liked the formula presented back in vanilla.

    Basicly a bunch of people liked the way the game used to play and want that formula back. So those that don't like it trash them down, saying that their opinions and thoughts are invalid because it's just nostalgia. It's hurting the game just as much as this thread claims that we hurt the game.

  16. #116
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    The things you liked/dis-liked 8 years ago may not be the same as today. You've changed, the world has changed, gaming has changed. I can see how it must be upsetting for some people to start dis-liking a game they've invested a lot of time into, but you reach a point when you have to move on (if that means leaving this game behind). Things are never going to be the same, even if they opened up vanilla/bc servers (which they said they would never do anyway). Yes I do think people ruin the game for themselves, trying to compare it with the past versions and wanting it to BE very similar to past versions. It's these people who will never truly be satisfied because they cannot accept the new direction the game is going and move on. I would imagine they have similar problems in real life as well dealing and moving on from past experiences. It's one thing to reminisce, it's another to have your life consumed by the past of what will never be again.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Samaramon View Post
    Nostalgia?
    Having fun walking everywhere? Grinding 200 mobs per quest? Getting 1shot by nearly every class?

    How long have you been playing? The shine will wear off.
    Also, Private servers are a no-no.
    I'm actually having more fun on that server (it's a pretty good server with a nice community) than I've had with any WoW expansion after BC.
    There is no need for you to be snide about my personal preference when it comes to gaming.
    I've been playing for some months now and I'm having a blast. World PvP is so much fun.

    and no, the shine will not wear of. Just deal with other peoples opinions
    Vanilla and Pandaria are two different games altogether.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Miralynn View Post
    I felt the same way.

    And I will admit, I really miss the sprawling mess of a maze that Sunken Temple used to be... I was sad when they nerfed it down to the tiny little thing it is now. But on the other hand, I acknowledge that pugs practically never finished it in its old form and the nerf was needed for LFD - I just wish they could have preserved the old version for non-LFD runs.
    What so you can "Form" a group whilst leveling and slowly make your way down there ? Would of been a pointless waste of time on blizzards part and you would of never visited the place if you had the LFD option.

  19. #119
    I agree with you Byniri, Nostalgia is an issue. A lot of people who say that Vanilla, Burning Crusade and Wrath (Ulduar) were "better" say it because of nostalgic feelings. When those said expansions were current content a lot of people just started to play the game, for a lot of them it was their first mmo and believe me, it does have a big impression on us. Also everyone was younger back then than now (obviously) and when you're younger your mind can imagine things a lot easier and things also impress it a lot easier. It's easier to be in this fantasy world and ejoy it.

    Of course, this doesn't apply to everyone, but to a lot of people it certainly does. And this clouds our judgement of the game if we were to judge it by "normal" measures like changes made to the game by blizzard. Not everything was as good back then as people like to put it, same as not everything is as bad nowadays as some say it is.

    But honestly, the reason why nostalgia is an issue is because the game is really old, and it's not getting younger either. WoW has been around since what, '04 '05 ? It's a 7 year old game and the basic gameplay is always going to be the same. You can pve, you can pvp. You level up your character, you gear it, you clear the raids with it. After that a new patch is released, then you gear again, eventally a new expansion is released, then you level and gear again. It's the same thing over and over again, and it's not going to change. If a game is around for a while, people get used to it and after a time they are going to feel nostalgic about the times when they started to play the game. And the longer the game is around, the more nostalgic some people are going to feel. And that's natural, there's nothing you can do about it.

    Eventually people are going to be bored enough of the game and they are going to quit and move on. It's natural. I think WoW had it's best days in Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King, from there on it's downhill. And it's not because Blizzard "destroyed" the game or changed it so it's unplayable, it's because it's getting older and older and the general idea of gameplay will always be the same. Blizzard did a great job on MoP, you can't deny it. But with every day that goes on you can feel the game age and deep down you know there's not going to be anything new game mechanic wise.

    If you are bored by the game, take a break, and you might come back and enjoy it again after some time, and if you don't feel like playing it anymore at all, then don't. I'm gonna play it off and on until ESO is going to be released then it's time for a fresh, new game.

  20. #120
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    Well to be fair after the abomination that was Cataclysm how can you blame people for having a bit of nostalgia, going from a completely insane game to complete shite speaks for itself.

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