[HOLY] Will our 4 piece PVP bonus be nerfed?

[Karazee]

Seriously? Its a pretty well know fact that this playstyle isn't good at handling spike damage and that the support healer has to cover it. At times you will probably need to cast divine lights. That is why people suggested getting the beacon glyph and macroing beacon into your divine light so you can get the HP from casting it. Infusion of Light Divine Light cast is 1 second, less if you have any haste.

He isn't saying anything about Sacred Shield. He is saying you are using your holy power to blanket heal over triage healing as in reacting to the damage. So a big spike could happen when you don't have the HP to handle it.

I understood that much, but he brought up the initial Word of Glory heal and the way it was phrased, it threw me off a bit as to whether there were any other things he may have been trying to say. Thanks for your help.

[Deleted]

Seriously? Its a pretty well know fact that this playstyle isn't good at handling spike damage and that the support healer has to cover it. At times you will probably need to cast divine lights. That is why people suggested getting the beacon glyph and macroing beacon into your divine light so you can get the HP from casting it. Infusion of Light Divine Light cast is 1 second, less if you have any haste.



He isn't saying anything about Sacred Shield. He is saying you are using your holy power to blanket heal over triage healing as in reacting to the damage. So a big spike could happen when you don't have the HP to handle it.

Again I agree completely your clarification on the matter. This was what I was trying to say but maybe I wasn't clear enough.

About SS vs. EF I switch it based on the encounter personally. It heavily depends on your tank setup, healing setup and the fight which is better.

Both have their place.

[MuskiER]

4pc PvP isn't about being skillful. Raw HPS is what it IS about.




4pc PvP being powerful is okay by itself. 4pc PvP being better than equivalent 4pc PvE in raids is something that is not right.

I wish resto shaman got this kind of problem too, because our t14 2 and 4 set bonus are just a joke that im not even bother to getting those gear unless im in a 10 men guild.

[Devotions]

The 4p pvp set can be used very successfully in ways other than completely cheesing the meters.

I am still responsible for being the spot healer/tank healer in our 2-3 healer 10m raid, and I've gotten a lot of mileage out of it. It requires a difference playstyle, but it's still a significant advantage over not having either 4p.

That said, in the role I'm taking, the 4p PVE set will be superior, I think, once I get 4 496 pieces. I won't argue about whether paladins are "best" at whichever role - clearly they can excel at either (though in the particular Log that Pacer linked, his 44.0% overhealing seems perhaps a bit more than what a tank healer would be at, in my experience - note that I'm not criticizing and don't have a #1 parse to back this up so flame my ass away).

What I'm saying is, don't knock the 4p pvp set just because you don't want to EF blanket. Learn to use it along with spot healing and you'll still see probably a 10-15k increase in healing, it really is that good even if you aren't maximizing it. Just my experience.

[Deipotent]

Seriously? Its a pretty well know fact that this playstyle isn't good at handling spike damage and that the support healer has to cover it. At times you will probably need to cast divine lights. That is why people suggested getting the beacon glyph and macroing beacon into your divine light so you can get the HP from casting it. Infusion of Light Divine Light cast is 1 second, less if you have any haste.

He isn't saying anything about Sacred Shield. He is saying you are using your holy power to blanket heal over triage healing as in reacting to the damage. So a big spike could happen when you don't have the HP to handle it.

I'm saying this purely as someone who has mastered this 4pc. It is not slow, it is not blanketing in the sense of rejuv. It is getting so much hopo] and so many procs[/i] that it allows us to use extra procs to spread the hot to other memebers of the raid, which even further helps with spike damage. Sometimes all it takes for someone to survive spike damage is to have one tick of a hot go off [eg, KT with Ice Tomb, all it took was one tick of rejuv to keep them alive]. And while their are certain fights that have mass raid damage, EF blanketing goes far beyond the capabilities of a regular build in its ability to preblanket and heal at a higher output with less mana use. It is superior in every way.

On a regular fight it isn't used as some HP generating machine that just tosses EF out willie-nillie. You continue to heal as normal, use your HoPo on EF's prioritizing the tanks. You have to switch your beacon between the current tanks. You spend extra EFs on the raid, possibly preblanket, but prioritize spot healing.

[fixall]

How the freaking HELL do I compete with this....? Besides being less of a bad of course, which I am currently working on, lol. I left the game a year and a half ago as one of the top holy priests on my server... I come back and my pride has taken a pretty large hit. My spell choice could obviously use a little work in the hpm department, but I feel like I am having to constantly work the global cooldown like a mad man to take care of all the spike damage.

Here are 5 parses from our 10 man raids. I tend to stay in the 40-50k hps range while our Paladin consistently averages 80k hps... Quite a gap. Am I just so rusty (ie bad) that I should step back and let someone else fill in for me? I don't want to be holding them back I feel like this is way too significant of a gap to be caused by the pally's pvp 4 piece and Eternal Flame. I also have several parses of her averaging well over 100k hps, but my healing on those parses are even more pitiful than they are here and it would hurt my pride to much to post them. :P

<3




worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-jeif2xyo50oflxas/sum/healingDone/?s=91&e=525

worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-sxdocsna4jgbjx9j/sum/healingDone/?s=756&e=1036

worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-sxdocsna4jgbjx9j/sum/healingDone/?s=9042&e=9423

worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-sxdocsna4jgbjx9j/sum/healingDone/?s=16364&e=16948

worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-oz4j1t6q1n50bvdf/sum/healingDone/?s=1156&e=1454

[Deleted]

Seriously? Its a pretty well know fact that this playstyle isn't good at handling spike damage and that the support healer has to cover it. At times you will probably need to cast divine lights. That is why people suggested getting the beacon glyph and macroing beacon into your divine light so you can get the HP from casting it. Infusion of Light Divine Light cast is 1 second, less if you have any haste.



He isn't saying anything about Sacred Shield. He is saying you are using your holy power to blanket heal over triage healing as in reacting to the damage. So a big spike could happen when you don't have the HP to handle it.

When I see spike dmg incoming, I tend to predict it and save up some HP. When infusion procs, I try to save that too. Healing is all about dmg prediction, and in my playstyle I Can heal spike dmg better then before with 2x 3 wog instant heals / Holy shock, with some luck an infusion heal, oh 3HP again, hi!. So now, its a pretty wel known fact to you maybe, but for me, not at all. Also what others allready mentioned, blanketing the raid, gives a small shield, which actually prevents having to much spike dmg.

[Deleted]

I'm saying this purely as someone who has mastered this 4pc. It is not slow, it is not blanketing in the sense of rejuv. It is getting so much hopo] and so many procs[/i] that it allows us to use extra procs to spread the hot to other memebers of the raid, which even further helps with spike damage. Sometimes all it takes for someone to survive spike damage is to have one tick of a hot go off [eg, KT with Ice Tomb, all it took was one tick of rejuv to keep them alive]. And while their are certain fights that have mass raid damage, EF blanketing goes far beyond the capabilities of a regular build in its ability to preblanket and heal at a higher output with less mana use. It is superior in every way.

On a regular fight it isn't used as some HP generating machine that just tosses EF out willie-nillie. You continue to heal as normal, use your HoPo on EF's prioritizing the tanks. You have to switch your beacon between the current tanks. You spend extra EFs on the raid, possibly preblanket, but prioritize spot healing.

Okay I cannot argue straightforward because I'm by no means in World top 100 guilds or anything.

Just a question, if EF blanketing with 4pc PVP set is so good why doesn't any holy pala in top10 guilds for example use it? They can get 4set easily but still no one is using it. And yes, I know armory can be fooled but I know this also from other sources.

Indeed, it's not the best way to heal as a holy pala in high-end heroic raiding and in normals no one cares what to do because normals are so easy.

[Deleted]

Okay I cannot argue straightforward because I'm by no means in World top 100 guilds or anything.

Just a question, if EF blanketing with 4pc PVP set is so good why doesn't any holy pala in top10 guilds for example use it? They can get 4set easily but still no one is using it. And yes, I know armory can be fooled but I know this also from other sources.

Indeed, it's not the best way to heal as a holy pala in high-end heroic raiding and in normals no one cares what to do because normals are so easy.

Беса, (Exorsus holy paladin) one of the best players in the world is using it. This "spot" healing that everyone keeps talking about is a myth, there is no need for super uber spot healing. Once again the only fights where this set is not worth it is Lei Shi, and Tsulong (theoretical due to the fact that higher ilvl = more healing on tsulong)

Just because a lot of holy paladins in top guilds doesnt use it does not mean its worse than its counterparts. I also see lots of paladins in top guilds using Jade Spirit enchant (Беса included) while Windsong is almost twice as good from a mathematical point of view. What top players do is not always the best, remember back in wotlk when premonition paladins used FoL builds despite the fact that HL builds were much much better? Remember in DS when top guild paladins started going for other stats than haste "because they felt like it"?

The key to skilled EF blanketing is to save as much HP as possible. If you dont have a DP proc you first use EF once you have 5 HP. If you have a DP proc and less than 3 HP you dont use it imediatly either. I can spot heal faster with EF blanketing than anyone else in my guild can and I can do it more efficiently too. Another thing to keep in mind which have already been mentioned is that EF does not only provide mastery shields but they also keep the shield going for 30 sec and thus improves the mastery shield from HR, DL, FoL and HL too.

Anyways even if you were right about "spot healing" (its a myth) why should holy paladins give up on EF blanketing when we are the second best healer in the game at AoE healing asuming we use this set (the best once monks gets nerfed). Last but not least holy paladins with pvp 4 set can still do the "normal way of spot healing" even if they are wearing the pvp gear, yes the avg ilvl will be 490 instead of 500 or 500 instead of 510 but here we are talking about a 5% loss at most so even if you are using pvp gear you can still do spot healing if its needed.

[silverhatred]

Once again the only fights where this set is not worth it is Lei Shi, and Tsulong (theoretical due to the fact that higher ilvl = more healing on tsulong)

I've had fantastic results on both fights with the pvp 4set. You may be right that I am gimping my heals on Tsulong a bit but by using an int flask over a spirit flask I will have made that up entirely.

[kiwikim]

To go back to the OP's original question - 'Will Our 4 piece PVP bonus be nerfed?'.

The parses I am seeing on WoL show a substantial margin over other healers for holy pallys using this set. Whether this is just meter padding or genuine truly amazing and effective hps is not really the issue any more. You only need to check out the ToES parses for the Protectors fight to know it is good. What we need to be asking ourselves is when and how it will be nerfed, because that big bat is incoming in some form.

We are using a set bonus outside it's intended environment. We are shutting down our spell arsenal to predominantly one spell that without the pvp set bonus would be down 20% or more in our hps stats. We are talking endlessly about it, and holy pallys are suddenly blanketing the rankings on World of Logs.

I guess the obvious solution is that they will nerf the set bonus. PvP qqing is something Blizzard have long become hardened to, and given the additional moans from other pvp classes about how hard it is to kill a holy pally, well it's not rocket science.

As to the when, 5.1 is just round the corner. Will they wait that long? Depends on how dominating it becomes as more guilds progress through HoF into ToES. And altering a 4 set bonus is probably hot-fixable material.

I'm not knocking the actual play style by the way. I have the set myself and I am using it - I'd be a fool not to. It's just not something I really enjoy doing, spamming a couple of spells over and over, but I can see the value on certain fights, and I'm sure there are those pallys for whom this style suits. And any pally that wants their raid to succeed will not ignore something this OP. But, to make this your only healing play style, to expect it to last, and to qq when it ends....well welcome to the world of the mythical holy shockadin. It will not happen.

These quirks have come and gone in WoW so many times. There's always an inventive, eager theorycrafter able to exploit something like this bonus, and it will always get nerfed to the ground. Because if Blizzard had intended for us holy pallys to just blanket a raid with HoTs, well they would have just called us Resto Druids and saved themselves having to read a whole extra forum full of qq. Enjoy it while it lasts.

[Pasture]

The easiest solution is just to shut off PvP set bonuses in raid environments.

Switching to the PvE four set shouldn't be so big a drop.

PvP: You essentially only need to Holy Shock twice to gain 3HP, meaning 12 seconds for 3HP.

PvE: Holy Shock has a 4 second cooldown so 3HP every 12 seconds.

On a base level it is the same amount of HP generation, but obviously the PvP set interacts much better with Divine Purpose. Maybe the nerfs will target interaction with Divine Purpose? 'Free' 3HP procs don't generate a charge of HP?

[Freia]

Anyways even if you were right about "spot healing" (its a myth) why should holy paladins give up on EF blanketing when we are the second best healer in the game at AoE healing asuming we use this set (the best once monks gets nerfed). Last but not least holy paladins with pvp 4 set can still do the "normal way of spot healing" even if they are wearing the pvp gear, yes the avg ilvl will be 490 instead of 500 or 500 instead of 510 but here we are talking about a 5% loss at most so even if you are using pvp gear you can still do spot healing if its needed.

On 10m it is not a myth. On 25m you have more healers and you can will usually have more than 1-2 use an instant on a low hp target to help get them up. 10m when you are 2healing you do not have this luxury.

[Karazee]

What's the % proc chance for Divine Purpose? I'm hardly a theorycrafter, but with Holy Shock at a 6 second cooldown (assuming i'm wearing PvP gear), I can cast 10 Holy Shock per minute, and with the current set bonus, I can cast 12 Holy Shock per minute, then 4-piece is gaining me 2 holy power per minute. In 5.1 it's a 4 second cooldown. I can cast 15 Holy Shock per minute, so I'm gaining 5 holy power per minute. Doesn't that mean that Divine Purpose needs to proc 5 times per minute in order for me to gain more holy power than the 4-piece will net me in 5.1?

Just to use a recent raid, on our Imperial Vizier kill, I gained 30 Divine Purpose procs (in pvp gear) over a 7:50 fight. 30 procs in 470 seconds works out to 3.82 procs over 60 seconds. The encounter seemed average to me anecdotally regarding lucky proc streaks and not proccing at all, and the Imperial Vizier fight has what I'd call a good mix of moving and standing still, plus just enough burst damage to be used as a benchmark for me (granted I'm not in heroic modes yet, so someone else feel free to take the ball and run with it).

So if my math is correct, and of course I know I would need a larger sample size but maybe some of you can pitch in on that, that means Divine Purpose procs in PvP gear gains you more holy power than the current 4-piece bonus, but once it changes in 5.1, the ability to cast Holy shock once every 4 seconds nets you more holy power over a fight than the pvp gear does.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. As I said, I'm hardly a theorycrafter.

[Deleted]

What's the % proc chance for Divine Purpose? I'm hardly a theorycrafter, but with Holy Shock at a 6 second cooldown (assuming i'm wearing PvP gear), I can cast 10 Holy Shock per minute, and with the current set bonus, I can cast 12 Holy Shock per minute, then 4-piece is gaining me 2 holy power per minute. In 5.1 it's a 4 second cooldown. I can cast 15 Holy Shock per minute, so I'm gaining 5 holy power per minute. Doesn't that mean that Divine Purpose needs to proc 5 times per minute in order for me to gain more holy power than the 4-piece will net me in 5.1?

Just to use a recent raid, on our Imperial Vizier kill, I gained 30 Divine Purpose procs (in pvp gear) over a 7:50 fight. 30 procs in 470 seconds works out to 3.82 procs over 60 seconds. The encounter seemed average to me anecdotally regarding lucky proc streaks and not proccing at all, and the Imperial Vizier fight has what I'd call a good mix of moving and standing still, plus just enough burst damage to be used as a benchmark for me (granted I'm not in heroic modes yet, so someone else feel free to take the ball and run with it).

So if my math is correct, and of course I know I would need a larger sample size but maybe some of you can pitch in on that, that means Divine Purpose procs in PvP gear gains you more holy power than the current 4-piece bonus, but once it changes in 5.1, the ability to cast Holy shock once every 4 seconds nets you more holy power over a fight than the pvp gear does.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. As I said, I'm hardly a theorycrafter.

Yes You are a little bit wrong ... because Divine Purpose procs from Spells that use HP so an Example:

4pc PVP
5 HP -> using 1 EF (-3/+1 HP)-> DP Procs -> using 1 EF (-0/+1 HP)-> no DP -> u got 4 HP (without the need of any Mana and in proc chains u can just spam it insanely often)
4pc PVE (5.1 beacuse 5.0 is crap)
5 HP -> using 1 EF (-3 HP) -> DP Procs -> using 1 EF (-0/+0 HP)-> no DP -> u got 2 HP (also dont need Mana BUT need to cast Holy Shock for the next EF u cant just spam EF because u need to cast HS sometimes)

Is it now clear to u why the 4 pc PVP is better?

[Karazee]

Yes You are a little bit wrong ... because Divine Purpose procs from Spells that use HP so an Example:

4pc PVP
5 HP -> using 1 EF (-3/+1 HP)-> DP Procs -> using 1 EF (-0/+1 HP)-> no DP -> u got 4 HP (without the need of any Mana and in proc chains u can just spam it insanely often)
4pc PVE (5.1 beacuse 5.0 is crap)
5 HP -> using 1 EF (-3 HP) -> DP Procs -> using 1 EF (-0/+0 HP)-> no DP -> u got 2 HP (also dont need Mana BUT need to cast Holy Shock for the next EF u cant just spam EF because u need to cast HS sometimes)

Is it now clear to u why the 4 pc PVP is better?

No.

You're missing what I'm saying.

I took an average fight of mine where I used the PvP set and the Divine Purpose procs gained me an average of 3.82 extra Holy Power per minute.

I then calculated that using Holy Shock off cooldown in 5.1 gains you an extra 5 holy power per minute if you have the 4-piece PvE bonus.

Therefore, there's a difference of the 5-piece gaining me an extra 1.2 holy power per minute. The problem is that I cannot figure out how much Holy Power I gained from the PvP set when I cast non-Divine Purpose 3+ holy power Eternal Flames. If it's 1.2 extra holy power per minute, then the sets are even as far as holy power gains.

Your "analysis" only looks at the pvp 4-set when things are going good and Divine Purpose is proccing. For a complete picture and an accurate analysis you have to look at it when you're not getting Divine Purpose procs as well. You can't just say "Well this set bonus is awesome when you're getting chain procs so therefore the bonus is better overall." because you don't always get chain procs and the PvE set may be better when you're not. So you have to compare the two over the course of both the highs and the lows, not just the highs.

[Deleted]

I have a hard time understanding the calculations you guys are doing, maybe you could set it up into a table to make it easier to understand?

Anyways regardless of the outcome you have to keep in mind that the pve 4 set bonus will require you to use 3 global cooldowns vs 2 global cooldowns. In a low damage encounter, maybe even in 10 man due to lower amount of people to cast HR on, I can see the pve set being better (asuming numbers suggest it). However in a high damage encounter (where healing is needed the most in general) that extra gcd that you have to use will decrease your healing from both HR and EF substantially. For example on elegon heroic last phase where the damage is really insane what I do is cast 2x HR and then an EF or 1 HS, 1 HR and then EF.

[Deleted]

No.

You're missing what I'm saying.

I took an average fight of mine where I used the PvP set and the Divine Purpose procs gained me an average of 3.82 extra Holy Power per minute.

I then calculated that using Holy Shock off cooldown in 5.1 gains you an extra 5 holy power per minute if you have the 4-piece PvE bonus.

Therefore, there's a difference of the 5-piece gaining me an extra 1.2 holy power per minute. The problem is that I cannot figure out how much Holy Power I gained from the PvP set when I cast non-Divine Purpose 3+ holy power Eternal Flames. If it's 1.2 extra holy power per minute, then the sets are even as far as holy power gains.

Your "analysis" only looks at the pvp 4-set when things are going good and Divine Purpose is proccing. For a complete picture and an accurate analysis you have to look at it when you're not getting Divine Purpose procs as well. You can't just say "Well this set bonus is awesome when you're getting chain procs so therefore the bonus is better overall." because you don't always get chain procs and the PvE set may be better when you're not. So you have to compare the two over the course of both the highs and the lows, not just the highs.

^^ Hmmm i dont get it how u could gain less HP with the 4pc PVP mathematical i would say this:

NO DP:
PVP 4pc(just that its clear starting a figth with 5 HP is preconditioned (so u never need to generate the first HP))
-> u get 3 HP with 2 HS so 12s. (2*6s) (u get 1 HP from PVP bonus)
PVE 4pc
-> u get 3 HP with 3 HS so 12s. (3*4s)
Summary : Same HP in 12s -> BUT u need mana for 1 more HS with 4pc PVE(its ok because of higher stats)

-----------
WITH DP:
PVP
-> u gain 1 HP for every DP Proc
PVE
-> u gain nothing else then DP Proc

That means u cant get more HP with PVE set because u gain no HP for DP and same amount in 12s.

I think now u must see the difference in that two bonuses.

Another Example:
U have 5 HP and got PVP set(starting battle) -> u can cast 2 EF without using HS (but can use it after first)
-> if u cast 1 EF -> 1 HS -> EF -> wait 5s -> 1 HS -> 1EF

u have 5 HP and got PVE set(starting battle) -> u can only cast 1 EF
-> if u cast 1 EF -> 1 HS -> 1 EF -> wait 3s -> 1 HS -> wait 4s -> 1 HS -> 1 EF

and if u call DP into the example the pve looks even worse (no HP for DP). If u want u can use any other spell to generate HP with both sets but since u need 1 more HP for every EF u need everytime to cast 1 more spell for getting 3 and theres no way around.

So my conclusion is: If u get 4 pc PVE in heroic, then u might raise ur HPS and HPM, but with only nhc gear i dont really think that 13ilvl of 4 items is enough to out weight the bonus of PVP set. (Just my opinion and if u "feel" otherwise then do it)

I dont think i missed something here .... if anyone can correct me then do it.

[Karazee]

^^ Hmmm i dont get it how u could gain less HP with the 4pc PVP mathematical i would say this:

NO DP:
PVP 4pc(just that its clear starting a figth with 5 HP is preconditioned (so u never need to generate the first HP))
-> u get 3 HP with 2 HS so 12s. (2*6s) (u get 1 HP from PVP bonus)
PVE 4pc
-> u get 3 HP with 3 HS so 12s. (3*4s)
Summary : Same HP in 12s -> BUT u need mana for 1 more HS with 4pc PVE(its ok because of higher stats)

-----------
WITH DP:
PVP
-> u gain 1 HP for every DP Proc
PVE
-> u gain nothing else then DP Proc

That means u cant get more HP with PVE set because u gain no HP for DP and same amount in 12s.

I think now u must see the difference in that two bonuses.

Another Example:
U have 5 HP and got PVP set(starting battle) -> u can cast 2 EF without using HS (but can use it after first)
-> if u cast 1 EF -> 1 HS -> EF -> wait 5s -> 1 HS -> 1EF

u have 5 HP and got PVE set(starting battle) -> u can only cast 1 EF
-> if u cast 1 EF -> 1 HS -> 1 EF -> wait 3s -> 1 HS -> wait 4s -> 1 HS -> 1 EF

and if u call DP into the example the pve looks even worse (no HP for DP). If u want u can use any other spell to generate HP with both sets but since u need 1 more HP for every EF u need everytime to cast 1 more spell for getting 3 and theres no way around.

So my conclusion is: If u get 4 pc PVE in heroic, then u might raise ur HPS and HPM, but with only nhc gear i dont really think that 13ilvl of 4 items is enough to out weight the bonus of PVP set. (Just my opinion and if u "feel" otherwise then do it)

I dont think i missed something here .... if anyone can correct me then do it.

The only thing I think you're forgetting is that with the PvE set, you're doing more than casting Holy Shock and Eternal Flame. You're using Holy Light a lot more and Divine Light more, so that fills a lot of those gaps. Your healing output is not as dependent on how much Holy Power you have.

[Deleted]

The only thing I think you're forgetting is that with the PvE set, you're doing more than casting Holy Shock and Eternal Flame. You're using Holy Light a lot more and Divine Light more, so that fills a lot of those gaps. Your healing output is not as dependent on how much Holy Power you have.

Hmm i didnt forget that, but u need to think of ur manaregen.
Example :

If u switch from epic PVP set to nhc PVE u only get 1k Spirit. 1k Spirit ~ 620 mp5 -> 7 min fight = 54600 Mana
1 Divine Light = 21.600 Mana -> can cast 2 more -.- (thats really nothing)
1 Holy Light = 7.560 Mana -> can cast 7 more (results in maybe 231k Healing)
1 Holy Shock = 9.600 Mana -> can cast 5 more in 7 min BUT u need to cast 5 more HS every minute so u can use ur 4 pc bonus

Maybe u get 1k int so ur healing is increased by(i dont know exact number) maybe 2k on Holy Light/ 4k Divine Light/ 4k Holy Shock.

Even if u get all these "benefits", do u really want to tell me PVE set is worth using it ??

I dont think so. Only if u got 4 heroic PVE set items but then u dont even need to worry about HPS, because u killed every boss to get these in HC .....