Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst ...
3
4
5
6
7
... LastLast
  1. #81
    I'm not switching and getting used to something that will get nerfed anyway. Promise you it will get nerfed. I like to have fun when I heal and to me that kind of healstyle would bore the hell out of me. Healing isn't about TOP HPS anyway, it's about responding properly and keeping people alive. Mindlessly hotting a raid won't always be effective ESPECIALLY in heroics.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by meroko View Post
    I'm not switching and getting used to something that will get nerfed anyway. Promise you it will get nerfed. I like to have fun when I heal and to me that kind of healstyle would bore the hell out of me. Healing isn't about TOP HPS anyway, it's about responding properly and keeping people alive. Mindlessly hotting a raid won't always be effective ESPECIALLY in heroics.
    So because im using 4pc PVP set makes me a bad heal ??
    And in Heroics u need that kind of HPS to keep ur raid alive. Also that play-style isn't just about hotting everyone mindless. Or do u wanna tell me, if i can use instant 65k heals with HoT nearly 4 times more often, i cant respond better to incoming dmg spikes ??
    Also if u can pre-heal ur raid in order to get ur mastery shield up before some high raid dmg is incoming.
    Or ur tank is getting pretty high dmg incoming soon, so u pre-hot some raidmembers and healing is transferred to ur flame by 50%.

    Healing with 4pc PVP isn't just mindless healing without any reaction to certain actions of a radibosses.
    Its just a way to push ur possible healing output.

    Maybe some Example to show u the difference in an extreme way.
    Boss Garalon -> without 4pc PVP and ilvl 490 u only got 50k hps -> That means u need third healer for this fight (or just 2 monk heals )
    -> with 4pc PVP u get with ilvl 485(because of pvp set i think) 85k hps -> Means u can heal that fight with 2 healers
    That gives my raid the opportunity to get one more dps in so dmg isn't a problem, even if u didn't bring melee Cleve dps to this fight.

    I dont understand ur Opinion because the argument "Mindlessly hotting a raid won't always be effective ESPECIALLY in heroics" is just ur personal feeling and nothing that can be proofed. OH wait it can be proofed that ur statement is just wrong. Have a look at this worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-o9koxnyptanr6cjj/sum/healingDone/?s=9370&e=9729 u see the difference in Healing ?? 45k HPS more with 4pv PVP set. So just tell me again its not good in heroics and dont come with "it won't always be", i promise u IT WILL in every situation u can support ur raid even better than without PVP set.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by meroko View Post
    I'm not switching and getting used to something that will get nerfed anyway. Promise you it will get nerfed. I like to have fun when I heal and to me that kind of healstyle would bore the hell out of me. Healing isn't about TOP HPS anyway, it's about responding properly and keeping people alive. Mindlessly hotting a raid won't always be effective ESPECIALLY in heroics.
    It's extremely effective on garalon heroic. But that's about the only fight really.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by meroko View Post
    I'm not switching and getting used to something that will get nerfed anyway. Promise you it will get nerfed. I like to have fun when I heal and to me that kind of healstyle would bore the hell out of me. Healing isn't about TOP HPS anyway, it's about responding properly and keeping people alive. Mindlessly hotting a raid won't always be effective ESPECIALLY in heroics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    It's extremely effective on garalon heroic. But that's about the only fight really.
    These are the words of players who have not tried the play style. Wether its igorance, lack of skill or jealousy because they dont have the pvp set I dont know. Once again I will say there is 1 maybe 2 fights in the game where you will see no benefit from the set.

  5. #85
    No it's not the only fight ??

    Stone guards green is up -> like posted
    Feng -> healing Arcane shit out is much easier
    Garalon -> nothing is better than pally there (10man / 25man monk heal is better -.- )
    Blade Lord -> last phase healing without stop moving
    Elegon -> u just can keep ur raid alive
    Will of emperor -> whole time raid dmg incoming
    Amber-shaper -> amber deals quite a lot dmg to many targets and last phase just tone of AOE dmg
    Empress -> last phase u can hot sooo many targets

    I think that are enough fight where 4pc PVP set is much better, then just healing with ... hmm ... LoD (150k heal -> im making 4 EF heals in same time ...) HR (just nearly no heal to 25 man maybe 4k each target and also used with 4pc PVP) so what do u wanna use to heal against massive AOE dmg LoD? rly? u got no other Option then switching to PVP set when it comes to all these bosses.

    Added:
    Toes
    Protectors -> for elite mode without 4pc PVP and no monk heal ? (not bringing 3 healers) Hmm i need to correct this. bringing an insane diszi priest also gives u as pala heal the chance to heal this fight together with just 1 other heal
    Tsulong -> massive AOE in night phase and with Healingbuff 2EF->1FoL->HS->EF
    sha -> while encountering the add -> keep 5 targets with hot and switch flame
    Last edited by Kimarran; 2012-11-24 at 01:24 AM.

  6. #86
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland
    Posts
    1,808
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    These are the words of players who have not tried the play style. Wether its igorance, lack of skill or jealousy because they dont have the pvp set I dont know. Once again I will say there is 1 maybe 2 fights in the game where you will see no benefit from the set.
    I agree the 4-piece is effective in more than 1 fight but seriously it does not require much skill to use it. It is extremely easy. It will get nerfed, anyone who thinks otherwise is just dreaming.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    I agree the 4-piece is effective in more than 1 fight but seriously it does not require much skill to use it. It is extremely easy. It will get nerfed, anyone who thinks otherwise is just dreaming.
    You are mistaking the playstyle's potential to be easy for its actual skill cap. Healing with the pvp 4p is *quite* potent, and - on fights like garalon - *quite* easy. Certain healers and certain playstyles being significantly more potent or more easy on a specific fight or damage profile has always existed. In my time raiding as a priest, Holy and Disc had the same playstyle differences, strengths and weaknesses. The playstyle with the 4p, for example, struggles with unpredictable burst aoe damage profiles. It does fairly well on your average fight, but struggles to keep up with burst damage on 2-3 targets, increasing the required skill to perform effectively in such a scenario.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimarran View Post
    So because im using 4pc PVP set makes me a bad heal ??
    And in Heroics u need that kind of HPS to keep ur raid alive. Also that play-style isn't just about hotting everyone mindless. Or do u wanna tell me, if i can use instant 65k heals with HoT nearly 4 times more often, i cant respond better to incoming dmg spikes ??
    Also if u can pre-heal ur raid in order to get ur mastery shield up before some high raid dmg is incoming.
    Or ur tank is getting pretty high dmg incoming soon, so u pre-hot some raidmembers and healing is transferred to ur flame by 50%.

    Healing with 4pc PVP isn't just mindless healing without any reaction to certain actions of a radibosses.
    Its just a way to push ur possible healing output.

    Maybe some Example to show u the difference in an extreme way.
    Boss Garalon -> without 4pc PVP and ilvl 490 u only got 50k hps -> That means u need third healer for this fight (or just 2 monk heals )
    -> with 4pc PVP u get with ilvl 485(because of pvp set i think) 85k hps -> Means u can heal that fight with 2 healers
    That gives my raid the opportunity to get one more dps in so dmg isn't a problem, even if u didn't bring melee Cleve dps to this fight.

    I dont understand ur Opinion because the argument "Mindlessly hotting a raid won't always be effective ESPECIALLY in heroics" is just ur personal feeling and nothing that can be proofed. OH wait it can be proofed that ur statement is just wrong. Have a look at this worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-o9koxnyptanr6cjj/sum/healingDone/?s=9370&e=9729 u see the difference in Healing ?? 45k HPS more with 4pv PVP set. So just tell me again its not good in heroics and dont come with "it won't always be", i promise u IT WILL in every situation u can support ur raid even better than without PVP set.
    Something I think you are forgetting and the rest of you guys are forgetting is that you can already 2heal it without the pvp 4set (especially with a monk). With the PVE 4set you can focus on 1 hp blanketing which gives you more healing per hp.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhatred View Post
    Something I think you are forgetting and the rest of you guys are forgetting is that you can already 2heal it without the pvp 4set (especially with a monk). With the PVE 4set you can focus on 1 hp blanketing which gives you more healing per hp.

    Yeah and that's the point. You only can 2heal it with a monk, because he brings the hps not the palaheal without 4pc PVP. There could be any other heal who supports the Monk and that's not my point.

    Assume u got no heal monk and no rogue and ur raid dps isn't high enough to 3heal it.
    You just got priest, pala, shaman and dudu as heals.
    If they just got average gear(at this boss maybe 476-480 i think is easily possible -> was my ilvl when i first killed him).
    How can 2 of them 2heal this fight?
    I don't see the possible solution there, without a palaheal having 4pc PVP and taking role of the monk.

  10. #90
    To be able to see the real difference in the pve 4pc and the pvp 4pc you would have to model how much mana spent on cs and HR and tower of radiance to get extra holy power is vs normal mana spending. If most of your holy power comes from holy shock then the pve 4pc is better.

    Some simple math for not using either HR or CS:

    PVP 4pc: 10 hp a minute > 5x2 is 5 EF's
    15 instants


    PVE 4pc: 12 hp a minute > 4x3 is 4 EF's
    16 instants

    The increased amount of holy shocks' worth of healing in the 4pc pve is offset by the 2pc pvp 10% healing increase that does 11 holy shocks worth of healing with the mana cost of 10 vs 12 for 12.

    I am going to go out on a limb and say that the 10% reduced mana cost on HR offsets the holy power gained from HR-HP assisted 3HP-EF's (since holy power gain is mana efficiency).


    That leaves only crusader strike which has a melee-range requirement and only 85% of them actually hit. If you factor in the misses thats 10.6k mana per hp.

    One thing to understand about the pve 4pc is that the healing rotation is basically going to be
    HS > Cast > HS
    or
    HS > Instant > Instant > HS.

    You cast HR in between that and its a double healing holy shock and 3 holy power gained in a 4-5 second window.

    For the PVE 4pc, if you want to ef blanket you don't have to worry about using 3, you can just use 1 hp EFs. But you also have the option to LoD
    With pve stats as well.

    The pvp 4set is good, but the pve 4set is just as good if not better imo.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhatred View Post
    The pvp 4set is good, but the pve 4set is just as good if not better imo.
    If that was the case we would be seeing people in the PvE set.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    If that was the case we would be seeing people in the PvE set.
    Hmm.. no u cant say that
    I'm sure there are many people that actually use the PVE set

    Important is that you don't see people with PVE set and the same amount of healing done.


    And also i think what silverhatred said could maybe right, but imo the PVE set just can't challenge the manaefficiency and healing output granted by 4 pc PVP and this opinion is supported by hundreds of logs. So u can model it around a hundred times and maybe in theory they could be just as good as the other one, but until 5.1 is live and someone can show me any log, where u can see that they are both equal or PVE is even better, i wont believe it.
    Because Logs don't lie and the change to PVE set doesn't gives you more mana to burn(just a slight increase in HP generation) so everything u get after that patch is a better way to burn ur mana even faster.

    Oh and some fact that was left out is, if u hit with CS u can get a proc from Seal of Insight generating 2.4k mana(procchance themes to be >50%)
    Last edited by Kimarran; 2012-11-24 at 11:28 PM.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimarran View Post
    Oh and some fact that was left out is, if u hit with CS u can get a proc from Seal of Insight generating 2.4k mana(procchance themes to be >50%)
    Not really, its pretty rare to get in a melee attack due to this bug
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ighlight=melee

  14. #94
    No u didn't understand.

    If u CS a target(no melee attacks going in just the special) the Seal can proc.

  15. #95
    1. Buff pve 4 piece
    2. Win

    Signature by Geekissexy Check out her Deviantart

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimarran View Post
    Hmm.. no u cant say that
    I'm sure there are many people that actually use the PVE set
    You can. The top players are using the PvP set because it is better. If the PvE set was better the top players would be using that instead.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-25 at 12:16 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    1. Buff pve 4 piece
    2. Win
    But how? The PvE set is already good. The PvP set is just better. You can't reduce the cooldown to 3 seconds. We'd do nothing but cast Holy Shock. The only alternative is making Holy Shock generate 2 HP or something similar to that, but then the PvE set just becomes OP as well.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    You can. The top players are using the PvP set because it is better. If the PvE set was better the top players would be using that instead.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-25 at 12:16 AM ----------


    But how? The PvE set is already good. The PvP set is just better. You can't reduce the cooldown to 3 seconds. We'd do nothing but cast Holy Shock. The only alternative is making Holy Shock generate 2 HP or something similar to that, but then the PvE set just becomes OP as well.
    Maybe add an additional 10%-20% manacost reduction to Holy Shock.
    I think that might be a solution.

  18. #98
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland
    Posts
    1,808
    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    You are mistaking the playstyle's potential to be easy for its actual skill cap. Healing with the pvp 4p is *quite* potent, and - on fights like garalon - *quite* easy. Certain healers and certain playstyles being significantly more potent or more easy on a specific fight or damage profile has always existed. In my time raiding as a priest, Holy and Disc had the same playstyle differences, strengths and weaknesses. The playstyle with the 4p, for example, struggles with unpredictable burst aoe damage profiles. It does fairly well on your average fight, but struggles to keep up with burst damage on 2-3 targets, increasing the required skill to perform effectively in such a scenario.

    I am not mistaking anything. I am responding to Pacer's 'lack of skill" comment because someone insulted the playstyle, a playstyle that he himself has said he didn't like that much in past posts. The skillcap of the 4piece pvp gear playstyle is low. Its not a difficult playstyle in the slightest. The disadvantage you mention is alleviated by running with another healer to handle it (for instance in 10m running with a shaman).

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimarran View Post
    No u didn't understand.

    If u CS a target(no melee attacks going in just the special) the Seal can proc.
    Orly. Makes me wish we had hammer of the righteous.

  20. #100
    The people that think Blizz is somehow going to fix this by buffing the Pally pve tier set or by buffing one of their other spells are cracking me up. Paladins are doubling (literally, in some cases doubling) the healing of most classes in any given encounter because of the pvp set bonus and you think they're going to fix this by buffing you or your pve gear? I find that funny. It's obviously not working as intended and will either be left alone and ignored or hit with the nerf hammer.
    Last edited by fixall; 2012-11-25 at 11:09 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •