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  1. #21
    They won't nerf it until more people cry about it, or more people make posts asking if it will be nerfed.

    The 4pc pvp set is based on 1) having 3 HP and 2) having insane luck with rng. That's not nerf worthy.

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theholypally View Post
    They won't nerf it until more people cry about it, or more people make posts asking if it will be nerfed.

    The 4pc pvp set is based on 1) having 3 HP and 2) having insane luck with rng. That's not nerf worthy.
    No there is more to it than that. The 4set makes it very easy to get 3 HP very quickly. Anyone who has played with this set knows its not balanced and needs a nerf. Saying otherwise is pretty silly.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    No there is more to it than that. The 4set makes it very easy to get 3 HP very quickly. Anyone who has played with this set knows its not balanced and needs a nerf. Saying otherwise is pretty silly.
    How exactly is it unbalanced? The 4 set does nothing whatsoever to help you build your original 3 holy power, and nothing again until you hit 3, unless you get a DP proc, which is rng based, that's already been stated. You can crusader strike yes, but it's not reliable since you can't always be in melee range, and if you're casting DL/HR to get your 3rd holy power, (assuming you got one from the 4 set and one from holy shock) then you're still spending an incredible amount of mana to make full use of the 4 set. If anything I could see them nerfing the DP proc providing holy power. But other healers aren't complaining, since overall, healers are in a great place. If you're able to dominate meters on anything but a garalon style fight in a pve setting, then the other healers need to step it up. And if you are using the 4 pc pvp set, and ONLY casting eternal flame, never switching your healing style to fit the occasion, then you need to step it up as well.

  4. #24
    They'll just make it only proc off of only WoG as opposed to eternal flame and wog since that's what it actually says it does.

    It'll still be just as viable in arena as most arena pallies use sacred shield or selfless healer, but it'll lose a lot of its pve viability by removing the ability to eternal flame blanket a raid.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 08:24 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dzur View Post
    How exactly is it unbalanced? The 4 set does nothing whatsoever to help you build your original 3 holy power, and nothing again until you hit 3, unless you get a DP proc, which is rng based, that's already been stated. You can crusader strike yes, but it's not reliable since you can't always be in melee range, and if you're casting DL/HR to get your 3rd holy power, (assuming you got one from the 4 set and one from holy shock) then you're still spending an incredible amount of mana to make full use of the 4 set. If anything I could see them nerfing the DP proc providing holy power. But other healers aren't complaining, since overall, healers are in a great place. If you're able to dominate meters on anything but a garalon style fight in a pve setting, then the other healers need to step it up. And if you are using the 4 pc pvp set, and ONLY casting eternal flame, never switching your healing style to fit the occasion, then you need to step it up as well.
    It's incredibly broken. It essentially makes a 3 HP EF only cost 2 HP which is just a CS/HS. This means that it creates a 50% increase in HP generation by just using 4 pvp pieces.

    In 10-mans you very rarely find yourself using LoD as there aren't many situations where you're stacked long enough to get more than a couple uses of it. Typically you're just using your HP to blanket your raid with EF to stack mastery shields for random damage.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dzur View Post
    How exactly is it unbalanced? The 4 set does nothing whatsoever to help you build your original 3 holy power, and nothing again until you hit 3, unless you get a DP proc, which is rng based, that's already been stated. You can crusader strike yes, but it's not reliable since you can't always be in melee range, and if you're casting DL/HR to get your 3rd holy power, (assuming you got one from the 4 set and one from holy shock) then you're still spending an incredible amount of mana to make full use of the 4 set. If anything I could see them nerfing the DP proc providing holy power. But other healers aren't complaining, since overall, healers are in a great place. If you're able to dominate meters on anything but a garalon style fight in a pve setting, then the other healers need to step it up. And if you are using the 4 pc pvp set, and ONLY casting eternal flame, never switching your healing style to fit the occasion, then you need to step it up as well.

    So because it doesn't help you get the first 3 holy power, it isn't unbalanced? After you get the first 3 you only need to get 2 after every wog/eternal flame you use. I have used it. And I have used it without crusader striking and didn't go below half mana. The set bonus is not balanced at all in pve. Anyone who has actually used it and defends it is just grasping for straws trying to keep it.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Iracor View Post
    They'll just make it only proc off of only WoG as opposed to eternal flame and wog since that's what it actually says it does.

    It'll still be just as viable in arena as most arena pallies use sacred shield or selfless healer, but it'll lose a lot of its pve viability by removing the ability to eternal flame blanket a raid.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 08:24 PM ----------




    It's incredibly broken. It essentially makes a 3 HP EF only cost 2 HP which is just a CS/HS. This means that it creates a 50% increase in HP generation by just using 4 pvp pieces.

    In 10-mans you very rarely find yourself using LoD as there aren't many situations where you're stacked long enough to get more than a couple uses of it. Typically you're just using your HP to blanket your raid with EF to stack mastery shields for random damage.

    In a perfect world you could cast only cs/hs for every single eternal flame. But that's not the case, so your math doesn't work in the real world. I won't argue it's powerful, but overpowered? Compared to shamans, monks, disc priests, druids? I think not. If you disagree you can look at any healing rank list on WoL. You'll see a healthy mix of classes, (outside the top 40, which is monk dominated) and a small spattering of holy paladins with the 4 pc. That isn't overpowered. I think it's wrong fundamentally, I don't like the play style. But until they change it, I'll be using the pvp 4 set.

  7. #27
    Yeah I can see a cooldown being brought in, like they did on HP from dmg/stuns.

    Like a cooldown of 8 secs or so on the proc.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    So because it doesn't help you get the first 3 holy power, it isn't unbalanced? After you get the first 3 you only need to get 2 after every wog/eternal flame you use. I have used it. And I have used it without crusader striking and didn't go below half mana. The set bonus is not balanced at all in pve. Anyone who has actually used it and defends it is just grasping for straws trying to keep it.
    So if it cost more mana it would be balanced? I don't think mana is the issue.

    I am curious though if you think paladins are in an ok spot without the 4 pc. If not, what changes would you make?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dzur View Post
    So if it cost more mana it would be balanced? I don't think mana is the issue.

    I am curious though if you think paladins are in an ok spot without the 4 pc. If not, what changes would you make?

    No more mana cost wouldn't make it more balanced. That was in response to your "If you cast divine light or holy radiance to get the 3rd hp, you will oom" argument because you won't.

    I think paladins are fine without the 4 piece.

    "Compared to shamans, monks, disc priests, druids?"

    If you can't outheal shaman, disc priests, and druids with this 4 piece then I don't know what to tell you. You shouldn't even have issues outhealing them without the 4 piece on most fights. Monks are getting nerfed so there really is no point listing them because everyone could see how unbalanced they were raid healing wise.

  10. #30
    It's not unbalanced but at the rate people are bitching they will find a reason to nerf it or remove it entirely.

    You aren't considering what you have to do, or what has to happen (aka rng) in order to get the "unbalanced" and "broken" results you are all whining about. You either have to always be in melee range and/or have insane luck on divine purpose procs...both of which aren't always reliable options.

    But what's the point in trying to explain it like others have tried to do? These insane HPS numbers you see is because that healer is DEDICATED to do nothing but EF blanket. I've heard of monks and druids pulling even higher hps then most people are whining about.

    Just to make it clear: I've tried it but I don't use the 4p pvp set, I use what I have equipped currently and I see no need to go to the 4p pvp set.
    Last edited by Theholypally; 2012-11-15 at 09:48 PM.

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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theholypally View Post
    It's not unbalanced but at the rate people are bitching they will find a reason to nerf it or remove it entirely.

    You aren't considering what you have to do, or what has to happen (aka rng) in order to get the "unbalanced" and "broken" results you are all whining about. You either have to always be in melee range and/or have insane luck on divine purpose procs...both of which aren't always reliable options.

    But what's the point in trying to explain it like others have tried to do? These insane HPS numbers you see is because that healer is DEDICATED to do nothing but EF blanket. I've heard of monks and druids pulling even higher hps then most people are whining about.

    Just to make it clear: I've tried it but I don't use the 4p pvp set, I use what I have equipped currently and I see no need to go to the 4p pvp set.
    You don't have to be in melee and the likelihood of you going a whole flight without points where you get consecutive DP procs very slim. It isn't balanced in the slightest. And druids? Do you look at logs. They are few and far between. Monks are getting nerfed. They were whined about much more than this 4set and were already determined to not be balanced.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Theholypally View Post
    It's not unbalanced but at the rate people are bitching they will find a reason to nerf it or remove it entirely.

    You aren't considering what you have to do, or what has to happen (aka rng) in order to get the "unbalanced" and "broken" results you are all whining about. You either have to always be in melee range and/or have insane luck on divine purpose procs...both of which aren't always reliable options.

    But what's the point in trying to explain it like others have tried to do? These insane HPS numbers you see is because that healer is DEDICATED to do nothing but EF blanket. I've heard of monks and druids pulling even higher hps then most people are whining about.

    Just to make it clear: I've tried it but I don't use the 4p pvp set, I use what I have equipped currently and I see no need to go to the 4p pvp set.
    This is pretty much what I was saying. There's nothing unbalanced about paladins doing high amounts of hps. But I think it's fundamentally wrong for us to be focusing on one spell to do all of our healing, and ignoring a large part of our tool set.

    @ freia, I said you spent a large amount of mana, I said nothing whatsoever about going OOM. And your contention that if I can't "beat them without the 4 pc you're just speechless" is ridiculous. Who cares about meters if stuff is dying? Paladins are OK at present without the 4 pc. But we are nowhere close to the utility or raw throughput with cooldowns of a shaman, monk, druid, or priest. 2 healing imperial vizier is certainly possible with a paladin healer, and I've done it...But I would have given up DF AW and the guardian for a tranq or healing tide for the force and verve. I'd like to see intelligent changes like increased range for HR, or a small chance for holy light to give hp, so we can aoe heal more effectively...without having to use gimmicky 4 sets.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dzur View Post
    This is pretty much what I was saying. There's nothing unbalanced about paladins doing high amounts of hps. But I think it's fundamentally wrong for us to be focusing on one spell to do all of our healing, and ignoring a large part of our tool set.

    @ freia, I said you spent a large amount of mana, I said nothing whatsoever about going OOM. And your contention that if I can't "beat them without the 4 pc you're just speechless" is ridiculous. Who cares about meters if stuff is dying? Paladins are OK at present without the 4 pc. But we are nowhere close to the utility or raw throughput with cooldowns of a shaman, monk, druid, or priest. 2 healing imperial vizier is certainly possible with a paladin healer, and I've done it...But I would have given up DF AW and the guardian for a tranq or healing tide for the force and verve. I'd like to see intelligent changes like increased range for HR, or a small chance for holy light to give hp, so we can aoe heal more effectively...without having to use gimmicky 4 sets.
    False(priests have better throughput?!! Seriously). Before you saw paladins using the 4 piece, paladins were still the only other healer ranking other than monks. Paladins have been 2nd best since beta. If you have issues without the 4piece maybe you should figure it out before saying paladins are weaker than other healers because they are by no means weaker without abusing the gimmicky 4 set.

    And btw it would be a lot better for the to nerf this set bonus for pve rather than nerfing holy pallies as a whole. Also don't quote me if you can't even do it correctly.
    Last edited by Freia; 2012-11-16 at 01:16 AM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    It would be a lot better for the to nerf this set bonus for pve rather than nerfing holy pallies as a whole.
    This. Its the only reason I don't like it as a concept. If nothing gets nerfed, great.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhatred View Post
    This. Its the only reason I don't like it as a concept. If nothing gets nerfed, great.
    Given the history Blizzard will probably nerf EF by giving it a target cap and keep the set bonus.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    Given the history Blizzard will probably nerf EF by giving it a target cap and keep the set bonus.
    Or just making the 4pc work with only WoG and not EF. But I wouldn't be surprised to see it nerfed.


  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    Given the history Blizzard will probably nerf EF by giving it a target cap and keep the set bonus.

    Given their history, they would probably nerf EF first then get rid of the set bonus.

  18. #38
    Actually, the only major issue with the 4set is the fact that Divine Purpose procs another free HoPo, you will see a divine purpose nerf to where it no-longer generates the extra holy power from the PvP set..

    That said, the PvP set will really only last this one tier as item level and sheer stats and better itemization will outweigh the lucky 50+ Holy Power you generate a fight.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Valiea View Post
    Actually, the only major issue with the 4set is the fact that Divine Purpose procs another free HoPo, you will see a divine purpose nerf to where it no-longer generates the extra holy power from the PvP set..

    That said, the PvP set will really only last this one tier as item level and sheer stats and better itemization will outweigh the lucky 50+ Holy Power you generate a fight.
    You know that pvp tier bonuses usually stay the same and that the new season will provide new pvp gear right?

  20. #40
    Of course it is. There is really no reason to try and delude yourself or others into thinking it's not as it will be that much more devastating when they inevitably gut it.

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