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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Deipotent View Post
    Especially with the 4pc PvE, you cast HS quite a bit. It ended up being about 110k mana back on our recent Elegon kill.
    Just looking at your logs it looks like you had 75 holy shocks in a 7:49 fight which averages to 1HS every 6.2 seconds. You had 37 crits, which as you said equated to 110k mana returned. Here's the thing, in my current gear I lose 1,567 MP/5 (from 13,835 to 12,268). Let's call it a loss of 1500 MP5. In a 7 minute fight that's a net loss of 16,000 mana for absolutely no additional trade off. That's a conservative estimate (the ACTUAL loss is probably closer to 25-30k)

    You should not be using Glyph of Illumination.
    Last edited by Dubalicious; 2012-12-02 at 11:43 PM.

  2. #162
    Valid point, I think I misinterpreted the mp5 lost by using the glyph.

    What are you guys using?

    Beacon LoD Divinity?
    Last edited by Deipotent; 2012-12-03 at 04:25 AM.

  3. #163
    I use protector of innocent and divinity most of the time and divine protection and beacon depending of fights.

    On topic: the fact that the 4pvp set bonus doesnt work with DP procs it already makes it bad at some point depending on what gear you have. Also with the buff on pve 4 set bonus in 5.1 it probably makes it a must for holy palas.

  4. #164
    Okay I have been waiting a few days with a reply for this thread but I think I have come to a pretty good conclusion.

    With the pve 4 piece bonus it will take you 3 HS or 12 seconds to build up to 3 holy power for a full EF.
    With the pvp 4 piece bonus it will take you 2 HS or 12 seconds to build up to 2 holy power for a full EF.

    So how can we make those 12 seconds faster, we can do CS and HR or we can cast a single target FoL/DL on a beacon target. Doing a beacon target FoL/DL is not something I personally would do unless that target has lost a lot of HP.

    A lot of people see CS/HS as "free casts" but to be fair they are not, one cost 9k mana (with a chance to regen some) and the other cost 9,6k. That means that no matter what you will have to spend more mana on EF blanketing if you use the pve 4 piece set. On the other hand you will spend more mana when casting HR with the pvp 4 set.

    For the sake of arguement lets say that the 3rd holy power when using pve set costs you 8k mana and you save 2k mana every time you cast a HR. That means you will have to cast 4x HR to make up for the mana you spend on the extra HS/CS.

    From these facts I can deduct that the pvp 4 set is still equal to the pve 4 set and depending on the fight it will sometimes be pvp 4 set > pve 4 set and sometimes pvp 4 set < pve 4 set. Yes the pvp set got severely nerfed but the nerf was not enough to make it bad, it was merely enough to make it in line with the pve set.


    I understand that some people think that they can 1 HP EF blanket the raid with the pve set but to be honest the point of the EF blanket is to make raid/tank healing easier and not to cheese the meters (lets face it 1HP EF blanketing is just cheese).

    Personally I will stick to my pvp 4 set untill I have full heroic pve 4 set. Doing it like this will also allow me to upgrade both my pvp 4 set but also my pve items and thus reducing the gap in stats vs lfr/normal pve 4 set.

  5. #165
    You are neglecting how good HS is, and how each HR basically gives you a 2x HS. You are also neglecting the increase in infusion of light procs and the massive stat difference between even the normal 4set and the pvp 4set.
    Last edited by silverhatred; 2012-12-03 at 04:25 PM.

  6. #166
    Nope im not neglecting anything what so ever. I have tested both back and forth and I couldnt for sure say 1 set was better so of course I am going to keep using the pvp set as I can upgrade that faster. I even managed to get a rank 3 on Wind Lord Mel'jarak 25N after the nerf to the set not that normal modes are the best measurement but it shows that the set hasnt been nerfed that hard.

  7. #167
    I haven't been able to raid much since patch and currently only own pvp 4 set and only 1 piece of t14.. is the t14 set bonus worth going for even with lfr items over 483 pvp set?

    If anyone that has both could point me in the right direction if i should try gather lfr items asap or keep pvp set until i get normal ones.. thank you.
    Last edited by twin2; 2012-12-04 at 05:07 AM.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by twin2 View Post
    I haven't been able to raid much since patch and currently only own pvp 4 set and only 1 piece of t14.. is the t14 set bonus worth going for even with lfr items over 483 pvp set?

    If anyone that has both could point me in the right direction if i should try gather lfr items asap or keep pvp set until i get normal ones.. thank you.
    If you are thinking of using coins in LFR then don't bother.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    Nope im not neglecting anything what so ever. I have tested both back and forth and I couldnt for sure say 1 set was better so of course I am going to keep using the pvp set as I can upgrade that faster. I even managed to get a rank 3 on Wind Lord Mel'jarak 25N after the nerf to the set not that normal modes are the best measurement but it shows that the set hasnt been nerfed that hard.
    Can we see your data/number/analysis then? You didn't mention any of those things in your post, so it certainly looks like you didn't take them into account. If you're basing conclusions off a handful of your own normal mode logs, then this is far from conclusive and quite possible just inaccurate. It is an opinion, which you are certainly entitled to sharing.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Dubalicious View Post
    Can we see your data/number/analysis then? You didn't mention any of those things in your post, so it certainly looks like you didn't take them into account. If you're basing conclusions off a handful of your own normal mode logs, then this is far from conclusive and quite possible just inaccurate. It is an opinion, which you are certainly entitled to sharing.
    If you had checked the other pages of this thread you would know I also do heroic modes and the reason why I cant link you a heroic mode log is because improving upon ranks such a rank 1 paladin on heroic elegon which I already have is pretty damn hard. Anyways here is a rank 5 of heroic will of the emperor where I used 4 piece pvp.

    As I said before I would not say one set is better than the other because they are so close and imo thats a really great thing, I atleast cant think of any other class who gets to choose between two sets (or use both where you switch depending on the fight).
    Last edited by Pacer; 2012-12-05 at 12:16 AM.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    If you had checked the other pages of this thread you would know I also do heroic modes and the reason why I cant link you a heroic mode log is because improving upon ranks such a rank 1 paladin on heroic elegon which I already have is pretty damn hard. Anyways here is a rank 5 of heroic will of the emperor where I used 4 piece pvp.

    As I said before I would not say one set is better than the other because they are so close and imo thats a really great thing, I atleast cant think of any other class who gets to choose between two sets (or use both where you switch depending on the fight).
    I didn't ask for a log, you said that you had taken into account things like daybreak healing, the usefulness/overall power of HS, etc (the things a separate poster brought up). What does that have to do with your awesome rank on Will of the Emperor? I wasn't questioning your progression, I was questioning your data (which just linking a log does not provide).

    It's called being skeptical, and every theorycrafter/numbers person is plagued by it =( I'm certainly not trying to be insulting, but "nope I accounted for all that" isn't really a satisfactory answer to the items the poster brought up imo. It's also a pretty minor issue to which you (and I) have already reached what seems to be the likely conclusion - both sets are powerful and would be optimal under certain conditions.

  12. #172
    4p PVP is the best.

    -Rank 2 Elegon 25HM
    -Rank 4 The Spirit Kings 25H

    worldoflogs.com/reports/3twxbkvokshx29yn/

    Wol Top 20 all oher boss, MV-HOF.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Dubalicious View Post
    I didn't ask for a log, you said that you had taken into account things like daybreak healing, the usefulness/overall power of HS, etc (the things a separate poster brought up). What does that have to do with your awesome rank on Will of the Emperor? I wasn't questioning your progression, I was questioning your data (which just linking a log does not provide).

    It's called being skeptical, and every theorycrafter/numbers person is plagued by it =( I'm certainly not trying to be insulting, but "nope I accounted for all that" isn't really a satisfactory answer to the items the poster brought up imo. It's also a pretty minor issue to which you (and I) have already reached what seems to be the likely conclusion - both sets are powerful and would be optimal under certain conditions.
    Thats fair enough, I just link a log to show that the pvp set can still pull sick numbers rather than writing a 3000 word essay about why I think they are equal (and that number is realistic).

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumiines View Post
    4p PVP is the best.

    -Rank 2 Elegon 25HM
    -Rank 4 The Spirit Kings 25H

    worldoflogs.com/reports/3twxbkvokshx29yn/

    Wol Top 20 all oher boss, MV-HOF.
    So it's best for getting a high ranking on H-MSV bosses, or the best, period? Have you compared it to 4pc T14?

    I don't think anybody is disputing it can produce high numbers when given the opportunity.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    Personally I will stick to my pvp 4 set untill I have full heroic pve 4 set. Doing it like this will also allow me to upgrade both my pvp 4 set but also my pve items and thus reducing the gap in stats vs lfr/normal pve 4 set.

    Best decision imo and i will also doing it that way because without heroic set-items i dont think the increased stats making any difference.
    Last edited by Kimarran; 2012-12-13 at 07:47 PM.

  16. #176
    We all just need to keep in mind that looking at the top 10 in world of logs or any healing meter is looking at the top <1% of people who are healing. There are people who have pvp 4 set who have numbers lower than people who have pve 4 set and vice versa and there are some people without 4 set at all that are beating everyone else. That being said, there are mixtures of people in the top 10 on all fights who are either pvp or pve and in pve gear they don't have all heroic (maybe one or two heroic), one such example is the top 10 paladins on heroic blade lord.

    My personal preference is the PvE set for the same reasons stated above. We often forget in our race to look at healing logs that the best healers are not always the ones who top the healing meters. Someone mentioned the huge benefits of being able to cast holy shock more often. More infusion of light procs means faster reaction to raid damage. More heals on the move. Holy shock is not free but it is one of the most efficient healing spells we have. 2/5 times this spell is going to critical heal for 70-80K on the move, healing around the same as a non-critical divine light or a crit holy light which forces you to stand there and cast. Also, we are doing things in the downtime between holy shock, most likely something involving casting. The pvp set bonus is not gonna help you with your healing here, but pve stats will.

  17. #177
    Should i bother with grinding for the pvp set bonus gear or will it just be nerfed soon?

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by pkm View Post
    Should i bother with grinding for the pvp set bonus gear or will it just be nerfed soon?
    The 4p has been nerfed to where it won't proc with Divine Purpose. Other that nerf, I highly doubt they'll nerf the set anymore, so yes grind that set!
    Shuttle of Blood Legion

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