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  1. #1

    Brewmaster tanking Will of the Emperor

    Hey guys

    My guild just got to 6/6 last night and I just want to share some information with my fellow brewmaster tanks out there!
    Will of the Emperor hits like a MOTHER ******. My first thought was "omfg I must have been in the wrong stance, because something is just WRONG here". But the reality is that these guys just hits really, really hard!

    I went there with my usual build (Hit/expertise to softcap > haste > crit > mastery)
    The first 2-3 tries I was getting smashed hard. I thought about going out and gem/reforge for stamina/mastery, but I was being to stubbon. I wanted to believe that my current build could handle this.

    After 2-3 more tries we actually got a kill.
    My experience was that as long as I had a really good uptime on shuffle, timed my CD rotation really carefully and cleared the stagger stacks, I actually wasnt taking more damage than our druidtank and the healing on me was fine (even though it was hard and my hp was dancing from time to time). You need to be wise on your CD´s and selfhealing. I know that some will say that you always need to, but on this fight its just a must, which makes it quite an entertaining fight. I really liked it. ´

    So dont listen to your guildies, shouting at you "ROLL DK/PALA/WARRIOR".
    Brewmasters are badass and we handle massive damage like this!

    I just wanted to share this with you

    /Boombrew

  2. #2
    I had the same issue in the first couple attempts. Key was to dodge the swipes and maintain shuffle. Since brewmasters don't have as many self cds as other tanks it just took a little more communication with healers before we had it. I considered going to stam/mastery build however I also was stubborn. However I feel for heroic progression the stam/mastery build is calling

  3. #3
    I went in for Will with a similar stat build and what was funny was during our wipes, I was taking a good deal less damage than the warrior, but on the kill, I took a bit more than him. A couple wipes were definitely because of spike damage, though, and with our cooldowns needed for the gas phase, a stamina / mastery build would prove to be effective here.

  4. #4
    The Patient Valient's Avatar
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    Very similar experience, got completely melted a couple of times, most of which were my fault, one of which was just RNG (320k melee, 120k absorbed and then another 140k melee about 1.3 seconds later). But once you get your rhythm you are all good. I found the key is to keep pummeling the boss during his combo breaker, to ramp up EB stacks as much as possible, if you can come out the other side of combo without taking a hit and with a full power gaurd and 15 stacks of EB you are laughing, add to that the DMC trinket and I was sitting at 80% avoidance for 15 secs and then only had to see off another 10-15 secs before the next combo, where you take no damage. I also found Dampen Harm to be very usefull too, his swing timer is 1.5 secs and he can hit like a truck if you eat an unmitigated hit, Dampen Harm goes a long way to covering you off against the dreaded insta gib.

    You should avoid the temptation to go crazy on AoEing the adds at the start and just spam BoK to ramp up your Shuffle, if you get it right, you can carry about 30 secs into when the boss spawns which is a nice buffer for the rest of the fight, letting you PB a little more often without risking Shuffle dropping off. I also chose to take Xuen for this one and used him during gas phase, with the buff and the crazy amount of vengeance you get from these truck hitting mothers, he pumps out some juicy damage on a fight that can be quite tight on boss dps depending on your raid setup.

    Get it right and you will take very little damage, get it wrong and you will be close to unhealable, such is the life of a Brewmaster, I must say I find it very rewarding even if it is a bit frustrating how badly your mistakes can be punished.

  5. #5
    My guild killed this a couple of nights ago using Paladin and DK tanks. From the massive damage spikes I was seeing as a healer I was thinking that a skilled Brewmaster would be amazing for this fight, being able to guard before the big hits come in, buff uptime and stagger management.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Boombrew View Post
    Hey guys

    My guild just got to 6/6 last night and I just want to share some information with my fellow brewmaster tanks out there!
    Will of the Emperor hits like a MOTHER ******. My first thought was "omfg I must have been in the wrong stance, because something is just WRONG here". But the reality is that these guys just hits really, really hard!

    I went there with my usual build (Hit/expertise to softcap > haste > crit > mastery)
    The first 2-3 tries I was getting smashed hard. I thought about going out and gem/reforge for stamina/mastery, but I was being to stubbon. I wanted to believe that my current build could handle this.

    After 2-3 more tries we actually got a kill.
    My experience was that as long as I had a really good uptime on shuffle, timed my CD rotation really carefully and cleared the stagger stacks, I actually wasnt taking more damage than our druidtank and the healing on me was fine (even though it was hard and my hp was dancing from time to time). You need to be wise on your CD´s and selfhealing. I know that some will say that you always need to, but on this fight its just a must, which makes it quite an entertaining fight. I really liked it. ´

    So dont listen to your guildies, shouting at you "ROLL DK/PALA/WARRIOR".
    Brewmasters are badass and we handle massive damage like this!

    I just wanted to share this with you

    /Boombrew
    Can you be a bit more specific about how you managed cooldowns? I haven't progressed that far, but I'd like to store some tricks up my sleeve before my guild decides that we need a crutch and makes me go back to my DK/Bear.

  7. #7
    The Patient Valient's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arisoh View Post
    Can you be a bit more specific about how you managed cooldowns? I haven't progressed that far, but I'd like to store some tricks up my sleeve before my guild decides that we need a crutch and makes me go back to my DK/Bear.
    It's hard to be specific as you never know how many EB stacks you are going to have, if you come out of a combo with 15 stacks, you are good to go, if you get unlucky and have no stacks or only 3, then you are going to want to use another CD be it Fort Brew or Dampen Harm or even Avert Harm (as there is no raid damage going out anywhere near you). Also it depends on what healer CD's you have available, if you know you are short on EB stacks and you don't want to burn Fort Brew because you want it for a gas phase, then you need to be proactively using healers CD's. Just keep an eye on major CD's for the final gas phase, you need to be able to sustain damage reduction for a while during the last gas and Avert Harm is not a great idea thanks to the raid damage going on at that point.

    Just remember to work healer CD's into your own and don't just wait until you have run out and call for them then, much like your own CD's healers CD's are there to be used and are wasted if they only get used once a fight.

  8. #8
    Pandaren Monk Hinalover's Avatar
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    Our big cooldowns (Dampen Harm and FB) should only be used for the gas phase. Unfortunetly FB is a 3 minute CD and the gas phases come every 2 1/2 minutes.The real trick to this fight is to just not get hit while dancing. Roll is absolutely amazing for this fight since you can roll out of almost every swing (especially when he does the center attack [roll behind him]). I would strongly suggest going with Celerity for this fight. You should have all 3 charges up for every dance.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinalover View Post
    The real trick to this fight is to just not get hit while dancing. R
    ^ This, being that we have the lowest armor out of all the tanks, each hit you take decreases your armor by 10%. This is make or break you. As someone else pointed out, while dodging keep spamming jab to maintain shuffle and TP for power guard up IF happen to take a hit of the combo. On our normal kill I was still able to maintain 78% shuffle up time.

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valient View Post
    or even Avert Harm (as there is no raid damage going out anywhere near you). Also it depends on what healer CD's you have available, if you know you are short on EB stacks and you don't want to burn Fort Brew because you want it for a gas phase, then you need to be proactively using healers CD's. Just keep an eye on major CD's for the final gas phase, you need to be able to sustain damage reduction for a while during the last gas and Avert Harm is not a great idea thanks to the raid damage going on at that point.
    Am I missing something? I thought the ONLY thing that AH did was direct raid damage into you at 20%? Outside of the fact that damage can be staggered how does it personally help you in any way? Which is why most try to use AH when Zen Meditation is useable so you can basically negate all the raid damage your soaking.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  11. #11
    The Patient Valient's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinalover View Post
    Our big cooldowns (Dampen Harm and FB) should only be used for the gas phase. Unfortunetly FB is a 3 minute CD and the gas phases come every 2 1/2 minutes.The real trick to this fight is to just not get hit while dancing. Roll is absolutely amazing for this fight since you can roll out of almost every swing (especially when he does the center attack [roll behind him]). I would strongly suggest going with Celerity for this fight. You should have all 3 charges up for every dance.
    I actually prefer Momentum for this personally. For me the key to this is moving as little as possible and to maintain at the very least auto attacks for EB stacks, I tried Celerity and found that I was loosing alot of EB stacks if I rolled around like a mad man, switched back to Momentum and found the subsequent runspeed to suit me alot better. Also something to bare in mind for heroic Will, there is 10 swings not 5, so the prolonged runspeed will almost always beat out the 3 rolls.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    Am I missing something? I thought the ONLY thing that AH did was direct raid damage into you at 20%? Outside of the fact that damage can be staggered how does it personally help you in any way? Which is why most try to use AH when Zen Meditation is useable so you can basically negate all the raid damage your soaking.
    No you're right. AH is not an effective cooldown on this encounter unless your melee DPS who are near you are having trouble and you have confidence that you can survive that damage... and considering how rare this situation erupts, and its basically only during gas phase, AH might be used in one of every 20 attempts at the encounter at best.

  13. #13
    The Patient Valient's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    Am I missing something? I thought the ONLY thing that AH did was direct raid damage into you at 20%? Outside of the fact that damage can be staggered how does it personally help you in any way? Which is why most try to use AH when Zen Meditation is useable so you can basically negate all the raid damage your soaking.
    Would appear an oversight on my part, it used to have a damage reduction component that allowed you to use it as a personal cooldown but it seems to have been reworked at some point without me noticing. As for the Zen Med combo, be careful, it doesn't always work, I used Avert Harm with Zen Med on last phase of Elagon and got destroyed, I had only just reset my stacks too, so it shouldn't have been a double dipping effect. Think it's just a case of trial and error on that one.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by arisoh View Post
    Can you be a bit more specific about how you managed cooldowns? I haven't progressed that far, but I'd like to store some tricks up my sleeve before my guild decides that we need a crutch and makes me go back to my DK/Bear.
    Its hard to be more specific since Brewmaster is alot about finding your own style and way of doing things (one thing that I REALLY love compared to all the other tank classes).
    On this specific fight you will have around 15 sec. with ALOT of incoming dmg. After that you will have around 15 sec. where the only thing you need to do is avoid some swings from the boss (fairly easy when you tried it a few times). This is all there is to it really.
    So what you want is to try to build up your defense in the 15 sec. where you have no incoming damage but only need to dance around the boss. You want to build up shuffle, hit the boss to build up EB stacks, have Expel harm ready for selfhealing, 4 x chi ready, guard rdy. etc.
    You also want to have 1 chi up all the time (when possible), so you can clear the stagger asap. There is alot of staggerdamage on this fight compared to all the fights so far. That was my experience at least.

    If possible you will want to save your big CD´s for the gasphase as already mentioned in this thread. Though it can be, that you come to a point when you have no defense up - then you pop a CD or you will die withing 2-3 sec
    I also specced "Dampen Harm" on this encounter. Found it very usefull since you take alot of big hits.
    Last edited by Boombrew; 2012-10-16 at 03:23 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Valient View Post
    I actually prefer Momentum for this personally. For me the key to this is moving as little as possible and to maintain at the very least auto attacks for EB stacks, I tried Celerity and found that I was loosing alot of EB stacks if I rolled around like a mad man, switched back to Momentum and found the subsequent runspeed to suit me alot better. Also something to bare in mind for heroic Will, there is 10 swings not 5, so the prolonged runspeed will almost always beat out the 3 rolls.
    I used momentum and found it to be very helpful as well. The key to this fight for me was maintaining EB stacks during the safety dance, so I had a full 15 seconds of EB ready to go for when I am taking damage again.

    Dampen Harm and Fortifying Brew during gas phase, keep shuffle up as much as possible (I had 82% uptime on shuffle according to World of Logs), and use the safety dance time to stack up elusive brew, and you should greatly decrease the amount of damage you are taking from melee swings when not dodging combos. The nature of our active mitigation means sometimes you'll have a bad streak, but with shuffle and EB up, that is an extra 50% avoidance (and also more stagger).

  16. #16
    Yup, as others have said - make sure you're attacking whilst avoiding Devastating Combos both for the chi generation and elusive brew stacks.

    The bosses hit like trucks by default to compensate for the massive downtime they have whilst doing the combo so it's especially important you don't get hit by any armour debuffs as we have very little to begin with. Self casting chi wave for 4 bounces can also restore 300-500k health if you're isolated and low, very decent on this fight.
    Last edited by Valsh; 2012-10-16 at 05:23 PM.

  17. #17
    Field Marshal Chudz's Avatar
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    Could you post your worldoflogs for this boss?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Chudz View Post
    Could you post your worldoflogs for this boss?
    Not sure who you are talking to, but here is the kill for me.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/4ju5a...?s=1918&e=2558

    Bodhidharma is me, the only monk.

  19. #19
    Field Marshal Chudz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamadenhu View Post
    Not sure who you are talking to, but here is the kill for me.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/4ju5a...?s=1918&e=2558

    Bodhidharma is me, the only monk.
    Monk tank averaging 200k melee hits you got hit 123 times.
    Paladin tank averaging 125k melee hits and got hit 121 times.

    You took 1 million more damage just think what its going to be like in heroic mode when the gap gets even bigger for Brewmaster monks. Its not like you played bad! your Shuffle was up pretty much all the time and you where using Guard and Elusive Brew constantly through out the fight.

    I don't see how a good Brewmaster can be viable in a progression guild at the moment.

    PS. I'm not picking on you btw I blame the class :P I've check lots of logs for Brewmaster tanks on this fight and its usually the same.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Chudz View Post
    Monk tank averaging 200k melee hits you got hit 123 times.
    Paladin tank averaging 125k melee hits and got hit 121 times.

    You took 1 million more damage just think what its going to be like in heroic mode when the gap gets even bigger for Brewmaster monks. Its not like you played bad! your Shuffle was up pretty much all the time and you where using Guard and Elusive Brew constantly through out the fight.

    I don't see how a good Brewmaster can be viable in a progression guild at the moment.

    PS. I'm not picking on you btw I blame the class :P I've check lots of logs for Brewmaster tanks on this fight and its usually the same.
    There are some funky things going on with how Brewmaster damage is logged though. If you look closely, it counts ALL damage staggered as TAKEN. It splits it up if you look at details between absorbed, or purified, and what actually hit.

    On recount for the same fight, my prot pally was showing as having taken over twice the damage I did. I don't thing anyone has developed good tools for parsing brewmaster damage yet. World of logs also counts Stagger damage as damage done by me and to me.

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