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  1. #1

    Can someone compare MW's healing style to resto shaman healing?

    I'm debating whether or not to try it at 90, but if the playstyle is too similar to my shaman then it's not worth it because I'll be bored.

  2. #2
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    really really REALLY different

    Like totally different.


    Seriously though, give me a second to write something more specific....

  3. #3
    I played a resto shaman through all of Wrath and Cata and I can honestly say it's not the same. Shamans strength were Healing Rain and Chain heal, and later on healing stream/tide.

    As Mistweaver you're going to be watching your Chi a lot, deciding when to spend it and how to time building chi for damage bursts. As shaman you would just anticipate it and then cast Healing Rain or whatever appropriately. As mistweaver we do great where the whole raid is taking tons of damage, but not so much for single targets. Shaman could do well either way.

    I also feel that our Revival isn't as good as a cooldown as Healing Tide.

  4. #4
    How much harder is it than shaman healing?

  5. #5
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Shamans were basically the poster child for three-direct heal paradigm of Cataclysm, they basically heal by casting direct heals woven around short cooldowns

    Riptide >Healing Wave> Healing Stream Totem > Healing Wave> Riptide > Healing Wave > Healing Rain > Healing Wave, and so on

    they don't have any secondary resources but they are up the wazoo with short and long cooldowns so you can think of their cooldowns as their resource. *Riptide if unglyphed *Chain Heal if Glyphed *Healing Stream Totem *Healing Rain *Unleash Elements *Elemental Blast *Spirit Link ttm *Mana Tide ttm *Healing Tide ttm *Ascendence *etc etc etc etc. Shamans used to have active mana management but Telluric Currents is no longer a core mechanic.

    _________________

    Monks are a unique healing model in that they can use melee attacks to heal, they don't have the three-direct heal paradigm at all, instead they have a channeled heal, instant heals (tied to the channel), melee-heal mechanics, and secondary resource that is very much like a paladins Holy Power. They have rather few long (3min+) cooldowns compared to a Shamans. They also have really active mana management (with mana tea). and a lot of indirect healing.

    You will find shamans to be fairly easy to heal with because their core healing abilities are are very direct and straightforward, and their cooldowns are very strong. You will find Monks to be very dynamic constantly shifting between melee-healing and direct-healing with lots of buffs to be maintained and lots of movement and lots of quick decisions to be made regarding how to spend chi without capping.

    Monks are harder but very engaging.
    Last edited by Grubjuice; 2012-11-13 at 08:41 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    Shamans were basically the poster child for three-direct heal paradigm of Cataclysm, they basically heal by casting direct heals woven around short cooldowns

    Riptide>Healing Wave>Healing Wave> Riptide Healing> Healing Wave > Healing Wave, and so on

    they don't have any secondary resources but they are up the wazoo with short and long cooldowns so you can think of their cooldowns as their resource. *Riptide if unglyphed *Chain Heal if Glyphed *Healing Stream Totem *Healing Rain *Unleash Elements *Elemental Blast *Spirit Link ttm *Mana Tide ttm *Healing Tide ttm *Ascendence *etc etc etc etc. Shamans used to have active mana management but Telluric Currents is no longer a core mechanic.


    Monks are a unique healing healing model in that they can use melee attacks to heal, they don't have the three-direct heal paradigm at all, instead they have a channeled heal, instant heals (tied to the channel), melee-heal mechanics, and secondary resource that is very much like a paladins Holy Power. They have rather few long (3min+) cooldowns compared to a Shamans. They also have really active mana management (with mana tea). and a lot of indirect healing.

    You will find shamans to be fairly easy to heal with because their core healing abilities are are very direct and straightforward, and their cooldowns are very strong. You will find Monks to be very dynamic constantly shifting between melee-healing and direct-healing with lots of buffs to be maintained and lots of movement and lots of quick decisions to be made regarding how to spend chi without capping.

    Monks are harder but very engaging.
    I'm not a very skilled player though >.> I can do fine on my shaman but I'm by far not the best player, more mediocre. Would a mediocre player be able to provide passable heals on a MW?

  7. #7
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genooo View Post
    I'm not a very skilled player though >.> I can do fine on my shaman but I'm by far not the best player, more mediocre. Would a mediocre player be able to provide passable heals on a MW?
    i can only recommend that you try it.

    Do you have a Feral Druid or Rogue or Ret paladin? Mistweavers healing style (useing so much melee as it does) is very reminiscent of plaing a Feral Druid or Rogue or Ret paladin.

    Melee attacks, Combo Points and Maintaining self buffs are the name of the game for all these classes.

  8. #8
    As someone with a level 90 resto shaman who does a little raiding and now the proud owner of a 'teenage' monk (not a baby monk but not quite fully grown) I can say they have next to nothing in common, aside from the fact they both fill green bars.

    Neither one is 'harder' than the other, I'd say. Resto is the traditional whack a mole healing feel with 'a heal here and a heal there' with potential for downtime (which I use to spread riptide or spam LB) and of course Shaman's are the Kings/Queens of stacked healing and still cry themselves to sleep over fights where every one is spread out. Totems are now amazing I went from being 'lolcooldown' at the start of Cata to being a CD juggling master. You need it, I got it. Dps? Stormlash. Light healing? Healing Stream? Raid Healing? Healing Tide! Damage Reduction? Spirit Link! Beast Mode? Ascendance. Add control? I can do that three or four ways. Still Resto has its drawbacks and moments where you have to get creative (spread fights for one.) but creative isn't bad. I like Resto because I never feel like things are beyond my control; if shit hits the fan I know I've got something in my toolkit to bring it back. It is a large toolkit and does take a lot of keybinds these days.

    Monk has more of a 'passive' style, in that your fistweaving picks it's own target (but in a smart way!) and your Mist kind of picks its own targets (but not exactly, if that makes sense.). This isn't to say that Mistweaver is more 'fire and forget it' at all (I'd give that honor to Holy Paladins on tank duty.) because I feel like the indirect nature of your healing keeps you on your toes and makes you pay careful attention to what you're doing. Can you fist weave right now? Is it the right time to use uplift/has it spread enough/what's the timer left on it? It isn't whack-a-mole, it's Watch-Like-A-Hawk. And downtime seems to be non-existent, as you could be building chi or lending some dps or spreading your hots to prepare for big raid damage. I'd also say that Mistweavers can do spread or stacked healing equally as well (since their AOE isn't ground targeted and spreads in a much nicer manner than chain heal.) but their single target seems a little...meh. I'm also not too sure about their ability to quickly brind people back up, something Shaman's excel at. MW seems more like a resto druid in that when people get low you expend a lot of time and/or mana to fix it, but I could be wrong in this regard.

    TL;DR: There is no real comparison.
    Last edited by Achyra; 2012-11-13 at 08:55 PM.

  9. #9
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    the one thing they have in common is strong stacked AoE healing

    for Shamans it's Healing Rain + Chain Heal
    for Monks it's Spinning Crane Kick + Chi Burst

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire Vaelyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genooo View Post
    I'm not a very skilled player though >.> I can do fine on my shaman but I'm by far not the best player, more mediocre. Would a mediocre player be able to provide passable heals on a MW?
    Eh, it doesn't take an insurmountable amount of time to level a monk, to be honest, especially if you have BoA's. They get a daily "Enlightenment" buff every day and at every 10 levels that doubles ALL XP. My wife and I have been very casually leveling a pair while balancing having jobs, a 3 month-old daughter, and raiding on our mains and are Level 62 now (Epicurean makes Rested XP last longer for Pandas!).

    To answer your question, I heal mainly on my Shaman and Paladin, and Monk healing is very different. I find similarities to it within Druid, Shaman, Pally and even some Priest stuff. They are very unique.

    If I had to summarize healing on one (I healed/tanked on one heavily in Beta and now on PTR), think about Sustained vs Burst healing. Druids are the strongest Sustained Healers in the game, both single-target and raid. They have a couple of tools in their kit for Burst healing, but they're the weakest at it really. You look at a Paladin though, they are the strongest Burst Healers, but if they don't manage mana well, can't sustain it. Every healer can do any role, but you'll notice a lot of encounters are easier to heal on a specific class due to the raid damage caused by the mechanics of that encounter. Having a balanced comp is ideal for dealing with all of the encounters.

    Monks are unbeatable for Single-Target Burst... Period. They can channel their main heal on a target, and while channeling that heal, their strong mana-costing heal and single-target chi-dump heal are both instant cast. All of these have no CD, by the way. Due to the RNG of Renewing Mists, and the CD you can pair with Uplift (another Chi-dump, unless you glyph it), make their Raid-healing kit strong, but less predictable. That's why running into melee and DPSing can be the most reliable source of raid healing you do, but it's not as strong, solid and reliable as their single-target burst...

    Sorry for the long post, but I hope that helps you. If you want to know what one is like, make a pre-made on PTR. Start at Level 90 in iLevel 463 Heroic Dungeon gear. Great place to learn the mechanics of the class-spec and play around with it enough to know if its worth leveling.

  11. #11
    Having leveled both to 90 and played through enough to get both to around 470ish item level, I have a fair grasp on both classes. Truthfully, i don't think anyone can make the choice for you, but they are very different play styles.

    Monks are a like a child of a holy paladin and a resto druid. You have a secondary resource to manage and you have amazing mobility with roll and tons of instant spells. You have abilities you hit rotationally, like renewing mists. In terms of cool downs, you really don't have much to work with at all. Utility wise monks seem very limited. Monks have lots of hps, much like resto druids were in cata. Their mana reg mechanic is irritating for me. You have to channel it like mage evocation or glyph it and then hit it every 10 seconds. Maybe it comes from years of hitting watershield periodically, but I absolutely loathe it. Monks do decent damage and often benefit from meleeing while healing...it isn't a challenge everyone is up for or enjoys, but if you want to be a battle healer, definitely give it a go. This style has alot of smart healing which is powerful in its own right, where say a shaman's damage is usually indirect...through stormlash or searing/fire elementals.

    Shamans on the other hand only have to deal with one resource. If monks are rotational healers and predictive (with thunder tea especially), shamans are all about sequencing. You hit one spell to get a benefit from your next (say unleash then healing rain or riptide/healing wave). Shamans have ton of cool downs, two elementals that both provide personal buffs if talented, ascendance, spirit link, healing tide, swiftness, and the like. We also have tons of utility in mana tide, stormlash, tremor, purge, and the both roots and snares...and of course heroism. Shamans rarely have the raw hps that monks have, but their master provides amazing burst healing on demand. Monks can duplicate this better than most classes, but only through surging mists, which is mana taxing. Watershield was changed and made incredibly less annoying...it is like earth living now and fire and forget.

    i think all the healers have different play styles (I played a paladin and a resto druid at 85), but basically you have to figure out what you like and don't like. I really have enjoyed both paladin and shaman styles in the past. I like having cool downs for when things get ugly. I've personally disliked the way resto druids have to artificially cast spells in order to activate their mastery or keep lifebloom stacking. I'd say monks are closer to druids in many ways. There's always a myriad of trade offs though...both monks and druid are very mobile and druids especially provide tons of versatility with heart of the wild.

  12. #12
    As most have pointed out. The healing styles are miles appart. The enjoyment you may, or may not find in MW will be fairly dependent on what content you do though.

    Meleeweaving with keeping tracks of buffs and whatnot for optimal DPS+HPS is quite nice for heroics but doesn't put out the "top hps" that is expected from you in progression based PvE.

    Jabweaving appears to be the dominant playstyle at the moment and while it doesn't involve the buff watching on yourself, it envolves using certain spells on CD, also envolves watching timers like DBM or others very closely to ensure you have Chi up in time of needs. This later part of knowing when your chi will be needed and ensuring to have it availible then plays a very very big role in the numbers game. This is mostly why people speak of shamans as reactive healing style (whack-a-mole) where MW really isn't. As a matter of fact, most of your "efficient" heal directed to lower health targets are intelligent heals (like chi wave, eminence heals, ReM+uplift).

    With that in mind, now is probably a good time to try one if you wish to raid as our numbers are far off ahead when it comes down to aoe healing and thus you get to learn it before the 5.1 nerf making us a tad bit less rotationnal/cooldown watch and a little more reactive/single target efficient.

  13. #13
    I have played both at 90 and raided on both as well as healed on every other class up to 85. As stated, they are VERY different only sharing little bits and pieces from other healers with a lot of new stuff to spice it up and you will not get bored, though you will have to spend more time focusing on resources and replenishing mana through mana tea. I totally love the versatility and control I have with the monk being able to melee and heal through eminence and go full out with healing up after (and leading up to) massive dmg and much prefer the play style over the shammy it sure beats spamming lightning bolt when your bored. Because of the challenge it presents in managing Chi and mana and the synergy they have together through mana tea as well as how some heals work with soothing mist to push through massive heals when needed I won't look back and feel kind of like slumming it when I play my shammy. lol Admittedly, it's heal style isn't for everyone, but after trying it I am sold.

  14. #14
    Maybe it's because I haven't had much play time as a MS (only respec'd last week), but I think I prefer Shaman healing to Monk. I'm not really a fan of the whole channeled healing from Soothing Mist. I also think they should have more Chi based heals, I basically only have 1 (thats costs 3 chi) with the glyphed Uplift. I also miss the active AoE healing from the Shaman's RoH/CH. Our SCK is an OK AoE, but it's melee range only and Renewing Mist is pretty much a HoT version of CH with an 8s CD.

    Uplift is a fun heal to use, I feel like spamming it, but it costs too much mana for that. Surging Mist is also fun to use, but I'm guessing that is our expensive emergency heal, costs too much mana to use as part of a normal rotation.
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  15. #15
    Sengura, have you considered NOT glyphing uplift? That may solve...MANY of your problems.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by gnorrior View Post
    Sengura, have you considered NOT glyphing uplift? That may solve...MANY of your problems.
    No because I still think 6% mana is cheaper than 2 chi. And it's there when I need to use it for high AoE damage bursts, where as can't spam it when it costs 2 chi.
    Last edited by Sengura; 2012-11-14 at 08:35 PM.
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  17. #17
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelyn View Post
    If I had to summarize healing on one (I healed/tanked on one heavily in Beta and now on PTR), think about Sustained vs Burst healing. Druids are the strongest Sustained Healers in the game, both single-target and raid. They have a couple of tools in their kit for Burst healing, but they're the weakest at it really. You look at a Paladin though, they are the strongest Burst Healers, but if they don't manage mana well, can't sustain it. Every healer can do any role, but you'll notice a lot of encounters are easier to heal on a specific class due to the raid damage caused by the mechanics of that encounter. Having a balanced comp is ideal for dealing with all of the encounters.

    Monks are unbeatable for Single-Target Burst... Period. They can channel their main heal on a target, and while channeling that heal, their strong mana-costing heal and single-target chi-dump heal are both instant cast. All of these have no CD, by the way. Due to the RNG of Renewing Mists, and the CD you can pair with Uplift (another Chi-dump, unless you glyph it), make their Raid-healing kit strong, but less predictable. That's why running into melee and DPSing can be the most reliable source of raid healing you do, but it's not as strong, solid and reliable as their single-target burst...
    You might want to level those Monks up some more and see what you think again. It's not mana sustainable to use that single target burst at all, and generally monks are considered weak single target healers, but monks are absolutely the strongest sustained raid healing and very strong at burst raid healing (if not the best). Leaps and bounds above Druids, whether the raid is spread or stacked. There's a reason monks are getting a 25% nerf to their AoE healing in a few weeks. Look at a fight like Garalon, which is all sustained raid healing, and monks are parsing 30% or more above the next best healing classes at all difficulties, raid sizes and skill levels.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 02:20 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sengura View Post
    No because I still think 6% mana is cheaper than 2 chi. And it's there when I need to use it for high AoE damage bursts, where as can't spam it when it costs 2 chi.
    2 chi = 2 jabs = 2 x 3% mana = 6% mana... And if you manage your chi right and predict the damage phases (which is what any good healer should do), you have no problems stacking 4 chi to unload 2 uplifts, followed by 2x jab or 2x sck for another uplift.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Sengura View Post
    No because I still think 6% mana is cheaper than 2 chi. And it's there when I need to use it for high AoE damage bursts, where as can't spam it when it costs 2 chi.
    You are so mistaken. Glyphed Uplift is clearly targeted towards VERY geared players (or just later tiers) or fights with manaregen gimmicks - Garalaj, Stone guards, Tsulong.

    Doing 2 jab THEN uplift is much better, because 1. Glyphed uplift is totally unecessary for most of the fights and 2. Its very mana unefficient. You cant use uplfit all the time, or you just go oom.

  19. #19
    Herald of the Titans Lovestar's Avatar
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    OK. Let's imagine you wake up tomorrow morning and your Resto Shaman now works like this:

    You must use Riptide on cooldown every cooldown and make sure it hits a different person every single time, micromanaging your trackers to ensure you don't spread it unnecessarily to the same person.

    You can use Ancestral Swiftness once per minute to refresh the duration of all your Riptides and keep spreading them longer and farther.

    Why do you do this? Because every time you cast Healing Rain, it only heals people who have Riptide ticking on them. Sucks to be you if you put Riptides on the wrong people and then the raid takes damage!

    Also, Healing Tide Totem now only ticks once instantly, but has the same cooldown,

    Your Healing Stream Totem is now permanent when you put it down, but it all it does is cast Healing Wave on injured targets every time you cast Healing Wave.

    Oh, by the way, casting Riptide grants you 1 point of exciting NATURE POWER. You can also roll the dice and spam Healing Wave, which has a 25% chance of granting you 1 Nature Power. Nature Power stacks up to 4 times.

    Casting Healing Rain consumes 2 Nature Power each cast! Also, Earth Shield now costs 3 Nature Power and lasts for 6 seconds but does about one Lay Hands worth of healing each time.

    Oh, casting Primal Strike (you know, that level 1 spell that's still mouldering inside your spellbook) also generates NATURE POWER and it has no cooldown! So if you can sit next to an enemy you can just spam Primal Strike to fill up on Nature Power and dump lots of Healing Rains. Hope you spread those Riptides early, though!

    Also, casting your healing spells has a 20% chance to cause a very tiny Healing Totem to spontaneously pop into existence next to someone. If they jump on top of this tiny totem, they will be healed! However, no one ever does this. So, effectively, your healing spells have a 20% chance to help create a pretty field of little glowing totems that help to lift your allies' spirits by making the floor look more aesthetically appealing while they wait for a rez.

    Finally, if you can manage to position yourself inside a clump of people, you can spam Whirlpool. Whirlpool looks like a Warrior's whirlwind, except watery, because you're a Resto Shaman and Resto Shaman love playing with water. Whirlpool heals for so much that you can put a rock on your Whirlpool key and go get a drink any time you're lucky enough to have people clumped up for it.

  20. #20
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genooo View Post
    Can someone compare MW's healing style to resto shaman healing?
    Probably I can (if I get high as fuck).

    Please try to stay constructive when posting. - Malthanis
    Last edited by Malthanis; 2012-11-15 at 05:57 PM.
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