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  1. #21
    Don't let it fall off, it takes too long to get it back.

    Don't refresh it with Nourish. Use either a free Regrowth, or just refresh it with LB.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by darkone238 View Post
    Question for you: I see this a lot about nourish and HT not being used much anymore. Is this really the consensus? If so I guess I need to change my healing Back in Cata I was just using Nourish as a filler since I gained mana faster than I could spend it. That's not *quite* the case now, but it does seem to provide a lot of nice quick cheap heals for my targets. Should I just stop using it and simply throw rejuvs around instead?
    I only ever use HT with Nature's Swiftness. Other than that, I always choose glyphed Regrowth since it's fast and a guaranteed 100k heal.
    I still use Nourish when I need to heal moderate tank damage and no healing is needed anywhere else. It's slightly better HPM than HT/Regrowth.

  3. #23
    The vast majority of my healing experience is 10 man.

    As for letting lifebloom bloom, there is a time and a place for it. But that time and place might occur once a week, or even less. So it's something you will very rarely want to let happen.

    As for the use of nourish - it's an excellent filler spell, for healing small and moderate damage on the tank, or just getting someone up cheaply and slowly - because of this, if there is a high chance deadly damage is incoming, you'd want to use higher throughput spells.
    Again, if I have nothing else to cast, nourish is what I cast: this ensures that I am never "not" casting a spell. Any time you are not casting a spell, or using some channeled ability etc., you could have been throwing out more healing. Even if the tank is topped up entirely, nourish costs so little as so that it can be nice to just chain cast on the tank in anticipation of some meager damage.
    Last edited by Themessiah; 2012-11-15 at 10:28 AM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalur View Post
    Your gear looks great, just some points:

    1) Your haste rating is wrong. You need 3043, not more or less. (Maybe this is because you recently got a new weapon?)
    2) Glyph of healing touch is pretty much useless right now, as well as Glyph of Rejuvenation. Swap in Glyph of Regrowth and Glyph of Lifebloom (not Blooming) and you'll feel a lot better.

    Your mana problems are either from wrong spell usage, or the raid taking too much damage. That's hard to tell without logs.
    Don't ever let lifebloom fall off unless your are busy healing massive raid damage. With the glyph, you can even transfer the full 3 stacks to the second tank on a tank swap.
    Thanks for the tip on the glyphs. I'm gonna swap them out and see how tonight goes.

    Should I still be at the first haste breakpoint of 3043, if I can make the haste breakpoint of 5320? Or is it not that important this early on in the game (we're still working on MSV10 normal)? I can reach the second haste breakpoint but I lose a lot of Mastery.

    Thealbinoguy1, thanks for the overview. I think a lot of my problem stems from the fact that I Rejuv ALL THE THINGS! I'll be a little more mindful of that tonight.

    Hey Royalite! I love your guild! And I think a lot of it does come down to the fact that healing in Wrath, I am very much used to the ABC druid healing. I feel like if I'm not casting, I'm doing something wrong. This could be from the mindset that Wrath put me in when it comes from my druid or the mindset from playing a warlock for so long when you were bad if you weren't casting something. (But oddly enough, I don't have the same issue on my priest). Gonna try to take it a little slower and see if that helps. If it doesn't, I'll be bugging you in game! <3

    Blackflag421, I never thought about using intellect food/flasks. Since I seem to have mana problems, I always use Spirit (unless we're on Spiritbinder). I know that logically it makes sense that the more intellect you have, the more output your heals will have but the thought of not having that extra spirit scares me. I will try it tonight though, just to see if I can tell a difference.

    My group raids again tonight and I'm going to try all the advice that I've been given. If I can quit being stupid, I'm going to try to get the WoL client to work and I'll post the logs of a few fights.

    Thanks everyone for your help!

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Sabbywabby View Post
    Should I still be at the first haste breakpoint of 3043, if I can make the haste breakpoint of 5320? Or is it not that important this early on in the game (we're still working on MSV10 normal)? I can reach the second haste breakpoint but I lose a lot of Mastery.
    The 3043 haste breakpoint is with the 5% raid spellhaste buff
    5320 is the same breakpoint, without the 5% raid spellhaste buff

    The 2nd breakpoint you are thinking of is 6652 with the 5% raid haste spellbuff.

    Aim for the 3043 if your raid has the 5% buff (moonkin, shadowpriest, ele shaman, hunter with sporebat) - otherwise go for 5320.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Sabbywabby View Post
    Hey Royalite! I love your guild!...If it doesn't, I'll be bugging you in game! <3

    I know that logically it makes sense that the more intellect you have, the more output your heals will have but the thought of not having that extra spirit scares me.
    Thanks for the compliment and send me a tell anytime <3

    The last part in the quote above, I went through the same issue. But you're going to get more mileage though there will be an adjustment period.

    One thing to look at is when a fight is done, where is your mana at? Ideally you're low when the fight is over. I liked the idea of always have a blue bar but raiders were dying cause my hots didn't have any strength.

  7. #27
    Okay, so here are some logs from our wipe after wipe after wipe on Spiritbinder and our downing on Feng. I got my butt handed to me by our holy pally.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-54q4fbkl8j2eapow/

    I know what our main problems are for this fight (tank not using CDs properly, low dps, etc). What I'm mostly concerned about is my healing and what I can do to be optimal.

  8. #28
    I only looked at your feng kill, but I assume the same issues are arrising on other fights as well.
    I'm not 100% sure on what is normal on overhealing for rejuv and WG, so I can't really go in to that, but a couple of things do stand out.

    Lifebloom uptime is too low, it bloomed 14 times. It's not even the mana you lose from having to recast it three times, but as others have said.. the Clearcasting procs you lose out on is a bad thing, and losing out on 3 GCDs instead of 1 is a bad thing too.

    You don't seem to be using the clearcasting procs you get well, I only see regrowth used 6 times total. Using these procs can really help with healing, especially during tree of life form. Seeing as all regrowth casts are crits, there is a good chance you are using the regrowth glyph.. keep it if so, if not I'd advise getting it. If you use your clearcast procs well you will also get a living seed on your target every time you use regrowth.

    Swiftmend usage is too low, you seem to have used it 6 times and you really want to be using this on cooldown, pretty much. It's a cheap spell, it's an instant heal and it leaves efflorescence on the ground, which can really add a lot to healing as well (especially if the raid is stacked up well.. ranged/healers can stack during fights like feng and gara'jal, making this a good group to cast it on, otherwise melee/tanks usually work well as well).

    Hope that helps a bit, good luck!

  9. #29
    Harmony uptime 48%

    That is your problem you need it up closer to 100. Harmony last 20 secs and is refreshed on a direct heal only. If you're using your CC procs and swiftmend on CD, you'll be fine.

    Look at the % of mastery on your gear, now imagine that number being 0% cause if you don't have harmony you are not benefitting from your mastery.

  10. #30
    1. As many other have stated do not let lifebloom bloom (outside PvP and some very exceptional circumstances.)

    2. nourish is rarely a good spell to cast and if lifebloom needs refreshing it is quicker and cheaper to use lifebloom.

    3. glyph regrowth and lifebloom (not blooming this is PvP glyph) and one other of your choice.

    4. unless HT crits (rare in current gear) regrowth glyphed will heal for more due to living seed and so is even the choice for NS heals.

    5. swiftmend should be used close to CD and this will maintain 100% mastery uptime.

    6. OOC procs are used for regrowth and should always be used.

    7. wild growth if it is going to heal 3 or more targets IS mana efficient and so should be used close to cd.

    8. all your other spellcasts should be rejuev or regrowth and the number of these you can cast is dependant on your regen.

    talent choices.
    1, always talent natures swiftness.

    2. incarnation vs soul of the forest is controversial. i switch between these 2 depending on the fight.
    basically SotF is better sustained hps but ties your hand as to the spell u use after swiftmend.
    incarnation is better for burst healing but also is widely used as a mana regen talent
    to use it as a regen talent u pop tree form about 8-10 seconds before burst healing is needed. u then put a single stack of lifebloom on as many people as possible. when the big damage period starts u will now have many OOC procs for free regrowths. swiftmend and wild growth should still be used in tree form on cd.

    and the final tier.
    HoTW is good for sustained healing and is an awesome dps cooldown. for fights where you team struggles to make the enrage timer use this talent and dps during low healing period (even better during bloodlust). my druid does 110k dps during HotW/bloodlust.
    natures vigil is the other choice and is useful for times when burst healing is needed in addition to tranquility (and treeform if u talented it) and can't be provided by other healer cd's. it also provides minor dps.

    takehome message
    don't let lifebloom fall off.
    swiftmend more.
    wild growth more.
    use as few regrowths that aren't during OOC procs as possible or you will go oom.
    rejuev is your best filler and most fights will be the spell that healed the most.
    nourish and healing touch should be used very rarely if at all.

  11. #31
    Several people have made several good inputs although a few of them I strongly disagree with I will start of with Talent choice, Glyphs, spell choice, and then move on to Stats and caps. This will an be overall thing for anyone reading.

    As a note, there are several guides out that go into far more detail and will give you a better understanding of a druid. This is a pretty simplistic one that goes off of my own personal knowledge, Experience, and what I have read.

    TALENTS

    Let me just start off with going down the talent list and explain all my reasoning along the way.

    Feline Swiftness/Displacer Beast/Wild Charge -- Feline Swiftness and Wild charge are both good choices and situational depending on the fight and how you use them. I personally choose Wild Charge because cat form gives you 25% movement speed if you REALLY need to run away and you also already have dash and Stampede. Most mechanics you can get by fine with normal movement speed and Wild Charge is a great choice for stacking and only has a 15s CD. It also saves me on "Oh Shit" moments when you need to get to someone or out of something like a cobalt mine or Jasper chains. It really is what you feel most comfortable with.

    Nature's swiftness/Renewal/Cenarion Ward -- Renewal is just a personal solo CD more for tanking/solo play. Cenarion Ward Tends to overheal and it also can use a good amount of mana and it may seem a good choice but it lacks in many ways. Nature's Swiftness... A free, instant cast, 50% stronger HT. A mana saver, a tank saver, and a pretty good amount of hps added if used as much as possible making sure not to overheal with it.

    Faerie Swarm/Mass Entanglement/Typhoon -- All these spells are completely situation and should be decided on per fight if any of them are needed.

    Soul of the Forest/Incarnation/force of Nature -- Ahh... the big debate of SotF vs. Inc. Now lets look a bit deeper into what these spells are good for. Incarnation means blankets of Lifeblooms, lots of CC procs, resulting in lots of free instant Regrowths and a 15% healing increase every 3 mins. This is NOT the spell if you are going for the best hps, Inc is a mana saver spell for the most part but if you manage your spells correctly it is not needed. This is a good choice for starter Restos.

    Now let's have a peek at SotF. Everytime you cast Swiftmend you gain 50% haste. This 50% haste should always be used to Wild Growth since it is a major hps and mana efficient spell and when tied with the haste cap of 5730 with the 5% raid buff you get an extra WG tick which makes it even more appealing. If you are 25m and use the Wild Growth Glyph you do not even have to worry about delaying any SM or WG casts and every other WG will have the 50% haste because of the CD times. Since in 10 mans you will be a bit mroe focused on tank healing you will most likely swap out the WG glyph for the LB one for tank swaps, etc so your WG will be on an 8s CD instead of 10 making SotF not line up as perfectly but in 10m you can still use it to your advantage to result in higher overall hps. This spell is the best choice for hps.

    Disorienting Roar/Ursol's vortex/Mighty Bash -- Once again these are situational but Ursol's vortex can at least be used on the final fight of Moshu'gan to help kiters. But other than that... no hps or mana savers.

    Heart of the wild/Dream of Cenarius/Nature's Vigil -- Now on this one the 6% int increase is good but the use effect is not used very often since if you were to use it for extra dps, you are now missing out on healing which is counter productive in most situations along with the 6min CD time. Dream... not only would this waste your mana on a dps spell but take GCDs, the 30% healing for the spell is not worth it. Now Nature's Vigil.... think of this as an extra tranquility except for 30 seconds. Since Tranq hits only 5 targets at a time, if you use this and cast 5 rejuvs on targets that need it it will put out as much hps as a tranq, but not only that you can CONTINUE healing and you can even pair it up with tranq to get ever more hps out of this spell. A good place for that is on Feng when he absorbs the flames you hit Vigil and cast tranq for the 30% healing and start casting rejuvs on the raid to continue the tranq essentially. Nature's Vigil is a wonderful choice! Use it as often as you can without overhealing. But also beware of mana usage when casting rejuv.

    My personal choices for talents are:
    Wild charge
    Nature's Swiftness
    Mass Entanglement
    Soul of the Forest
    Ursol's Vortex
    Nature's Vigil



    Glyphs

    Glyph of Regrowth -- This increases the crit chance by 40% while removing the hot, What this means is a pretty much guaranteed crit of regrowth which is actually a very very strong choice. This will give you living seed on your target and also make it a much stronger heal over all. All druid's should have this glyph, no questions... This glyph coupled with Living seed makes it our best castable heal and is the same amount of heal/mana as Healing touch.

    Glyph of Lifebloom -- This let's you retain your stacks of lifebloom when you put it on a new target *Does not work in Tree Form or when the current lifebloom's duration is less that 2s* This is a tank swapping Glyph basically. A very good choice to save Globals that can be used for other things.

    Glyph of Wild Growth -- Lets WG hit 6 targets but increases the CD to 10s. Is a good choice for 25m and can be situational for 10m. Also makes SotF line up nicely *I personally just like how it lines up so well XD*

    Glyph of Healing Touch -- Everytime you cast HT 1 sec is taken off of your swiftmend CD. Now this one can let you get in more Swiftmends assuming you use HT. If you do not want WG glyph this would be the next best choice. But also remember that Regrowth is just as efficient and the same hps as HT. This will depend on how you play mostly.

    Now these are the lesser glyphs that are maybe not quite as strong choices as the ones above

    Glyph of Rejuvenation -- If you have rejuv on 3 or more targets the cast time of nourish is reduced. Never cast Nourish in a raiding situation... there is no excuse. Not worth the time, same mana efficiency as HT but the same cast speed. This glyph is pretty much useless, just refresh lifebloom with lifebloom

    Glyph of Blooming -- Your heals do not refresh Lifebloom and causes it to bloom for 50% more healing. This is mostly a pvp glyph, not as useful in a raiding situation.

    The rest of the glyphs are mostly non hps increasers and more situation/usage

    Spells

    Now here I will list the druid spells and give a brief description for each.

    Main heals

    Rejuventation -- Our strongest heal but spamming it will cause you to oom. Use it on targets who it won't overheal on. This is the spell we will use most of our extra mana on. Cast it on target who are already at about 80% and will be taking more damage for the initial heal and to get the most use out of the hot. Also cast on low health members. Also a good spell to keep up on tanks.

    Lifebloom -- This is our "tank hot" Keep it up at all times. This gives us our Clearcasting procs, costs little to nothing, and heals for a good amount. Depending on the situation you should either refresh it with a CC Regrowth if the tank needs a heal or with lifebloom itself or even let it proc. If a tank is very low it is a good idea to set up a rejuv, let it bloom cast regrowth if needed and refresh asap.

    Regrowth -- A very fast casting spell that heals a decent amount. With the glyph it is a guarateed crit and will proc living seed on the target. Same efficiency as Healing Touch, Should always be cast when CC is up on the target that needs it most.

    Swiftmend -- A strong heal instant cast that also puts down Efflorescence which heals the 3 lowest health target standing inside it every second. Should be used on CD usually positioning on where ever everyone is stacking.

    Wild Growth -- Our big raid healer, very powerful but make sure that it won't over heal when you cast it and watch the positioning of your target as it can only jump 15 yards from player to player. this spell should be coupled with the Haste benefit from Soul of the Forest as much as you can without waiting for too long for Swiftmend to be ready. Use on CD as much as you can without overhealing.

    Cooldowns or Situational heals

    Tranquility -- Should be used as often as you can, VERY strong heal and also a mana saver. Beware of overhealing

    Ironbark -- Use this on tanks or raid members who are about to receive a high amount of damage.

    Wild Mushrooms -- Although the placing mushrooms is free it costs 3 GCDs to cast and doesn't do a very impressive amount of healing every if the entire raid was stacked. This spell is very situational.

    Healing Touch -- A slow casting strong heal, mostly useful when doubled with Nature's Swiftness. but otherwise Regrowth should be used.

    Innervate -- Should be used at around 80-85% mana at the beginning of the fight and then after should be used on CD. This is our mana regen CD

    Stats and Caps

    Now please bear in mind this is a basic idea, if you want complete in depth stat conversion rates I would suggest looking a full Resto druid guide.

    Now in general we want to reach as high of a haste cap as we can but obviously without sacrificing too many of our stats. Losing some int for a haste cap actually is not a bad idea at all since hitting the next haste cap will always be a bigger hps increase.

    Haste breakpoint chart

    http://theincbear.com/math/resto-haste-breakpoints

    In general our stats weights are Int>Haste cap>Spirit *Only as much as you need*>Mastery>Crit>Excess Haste


    Now this is a very general guide to understanding resto druids and there are several websites and forum posts who go much more into the theorycrafting part of it and in more detail. But if any of this information helps anyone or gives you a better understanding I will be happy.

  12. #32
    I attempted to dig into this question for you guys on Twitter:

    Quote Originally Posted by Venaliter
    I'm not sure why you just don't throw a 1 min CD on Healing Shrooms and scale them properly and be done with it at this point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    that might get druids to use them, but that makes them like a lot of other spells and the game needs more variety not less.
    Quote Originally Posted by Venaliter
    But all healing spells ultimately do the same thing. I think drds would rather USE the button then wish it were something else
    Obviously, I don't speak for the druid community, but I am curious if you guys would be opposed to Healing Shrooms being similar to Spirit Shell, a 1 minute burst heal, scaled properly, that requires some preparation and fills a niche druids are lacking in. It obviously couldnt be rotational.

  13. #33
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    yes please anything, really, to bring us back in line- that way of doing it sounds just fine to me.
    Consilium Azjol-Nerub EU 14/14 hc recruiting for WoD

  14. #34
    WG is 30yds now Firedaisy. So you don't need to be as careful with it as you used to.

    And i really hope they don't buff mushrooms. They are kinda situational atm. If you have the time, and nothing else to do, they are a nice amout of very very cheap healing. The mechanic is kinda clunky. So they're ok for now, but if they were buffed to the point where you felt less effective without using them, it would get annoying pretty quickly.

  15. #35
    Shrooms are actually a good spell, it's the setup that is clunky. I generally get over 200k healing per triple bloom, for only 6k mana, if all 10 people are damaged. If you are not having to worry about strong tank damage, it is well worth your while to use shrooms rotationally. With 10 second WG 10 second shrooms and 15 (or 12) second SM this makes for a strong and extremely efficient AOE healing combination.

    The only change I would like for shrooms would be to either make it a point blank aoe from the caster (no targeting reticule mechanic), or make it just 1 shroom that does the same healing as the current 3 so that setup is 1 global not 3. Shrooms are one of the worst spells in the game from a time spent casting standpoint, if not THE worst.

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