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  1. #1

    Question [Fire] A Noob's F.A.Q.

    Good morning dear mage-friends!
    Long story short: I changed classes for MoP (Shaman -> Mage). Now I am struggeling with the class mechanics, because it got more complicated then I hoped. I had to play perfectly on my ele-shaman (Cata) to get acceptable dps on the low-end, while the pure damage dealer's dps was just skyrocketing without a lot of effort (in my opinion). I noticed that the mage class comes really close to the play style of an elemental shaman, but offers more dps overall.
    However in MoP my mage seems to be as clunky as my shaman in Cataclysm.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not the best player. I'm normally participating in some decent heroic raiding, but most of the time I feel like I'm the "weakest of the strongest", if you know what I mean. So one issue of my problems is certainly my lack of pro-skills

    But let's get to my questions:

    1. I have the feeling that stacking pyroblasts (PoM/AT/normal crits) doesn't necessarily lead to a high combustion. Sometimes I get 2-4 Pyroblasts in a row and my combustion-addon only counts ~ 14-16k dps for the possible dot. The situations where I get over 16-20k are exceptional and need a lot of luck. Am I doing something wrong?

    2. Sometimes my inferno strike seems to ignore my heating up proc and generates no Pyroblast! Most of the time I'm playing around the 15% hitcap (the minimum is around ~14,90), but I don't think that the attack really misses the target. [Just Realized, that my profile shows 13% hit, I have to check this. Must be the new trinket.]

    3. The ultimate skills are very crappy. For elegon I'm sticking with rune of power, but for the other bosses I feel that only invocation is viable. But invocation sucks, because you have to interrupt both movement and dps. In some situations it gets very hard to keep the buff up.

    4. I'm reforging with askmrrobot. hit>crit>haste>mastery. Any ideas to improve my character?
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte...n/Sagat/simple

    5. Any ideas for a better overall gameplay?
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...um/damageDone/

    Thanks a lot!
    Feel free to ask and answer more questions :-)

  2. #2

  3. #3
    @ the 2nd link: I hardly get above 16k ignites, so I'm lightyears away from 30-60k dps as stated in the posts. 30-60k would be absolutely great for me So it seems, that I'm doing something really wrong (not enough crit/mastery/int?)

  4. #4
    Obviously the mage guide should be your first stop and it is a very valuable tool. Most of the rest of playing a 'good' mage is actually general knowledge about the game, performance of mechanics and situational awareness. For example, you mention invocation specifically - Planning ahead allows you to have 100% uptime on nearly every fight. There are some fights, in fact, where you can take additional damage and/or stand in something bad for a couple seconds because you know your evocation will heal you for 140k at the end (via the glyph). Combustion is an interesting beast. Focus on your rotation (100% bomb uptime, getting those IB HU procs sorted) before you worry TOO much about combustion damage.

  5. #5
    The Patient Abraxis's Avatar
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    If i read u correctly u're trying to get as much Pyros as possible in a row and then u combust.

    But if you read my post in the 2nd thread u'll see, that this is a common mistake and that its all about crits and timewindow of critignite ticking.

    Just read the 2 threads carefully and all of your questions should be clearly answered.

  6. #6
    1. Yes, you do not blindly go for HU-HS-PoM-AT, you need to know what you need to know.... Procs rule the school of high ignites.... Track your Jade spirit enchant, intellect trinkets and lightweave cloak enchant... Use your HUHSPOMAT when ATLEAST you have like 3k bonus intellect from procs (Relic for example). If you use it any time you like you highly likely dont have any of those and thus your Ignite will be meh...
    Add to that some nice crits (again track this) to make for better ignites. You can roll a theoretical maximum of 5 and a practical maximum of 4 Pyroblasts into a single ignite and profit on it in Combustion.... Only way to make the combustion big(er) is to make sure you hit harder (Intellect procs/crits)

    2. Only time when IB will fail to proc HS:
    - Your IB missed
    - You cast an instant cast (Scorch) before it
    - You delayed your IB to much
    One of your issues is in "I don't think", you need to know, get Miks Scrolling battle text or some sort of addon so you can see your hits, crits and MISSES

    3. Nonsence, it is all about knowing the fights, when do you likely need to move? When can you stand still for 5 seconds....
    Reliably due to the nature of Fire overall Invocation is the best talent of the 3 depending on the fight for example Elegon Incanter's ward or RoP are the more viable options due to you cannot miss the 5 seconds in the sparks phase to Evocate IMHO.

    Improvements
    a. Consider using the glyph of combustion to line up the CD of it to that of PoM and be able to more "focus" one time on a proper combustion rather than 2 times on a Meh one...
    b. Reforge to 3056 haste, for an extra tick on Glyphed combustion
    c. YOur asking improvements and you have that cloak and bracers? Seriously? Go go 463 ASAP, seriously ! As well as a proper main hand and get the offhand inscription thingy (Inscribed Jade Fan)
    d. I believe the 463 trinket from the sun instance is better than the 470 Mithril, go go.. or better yet Relic of Yu'lon
    e. if you really reforge Crit > Haste, your missing a reforge on your ring: Simple Harmonius Ring

    Ugh german crap on the WorldOfLogs
    RoP on elegon is total crap ~70%
    Your logs show you were using: Charm of Ten Songs ?? A 437 Green trinket?
    Invoker's Energy at 76% at Feng can be better, you want to aim at roughly 85%
    2 Alter time's 3 PoM's in a 7 minute fight (feng) can be 3 and 4

    Overall seem to be small things you can improve on but you dont seem to be doing that bad either...

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 10:46 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    For example, you mention invocation specifically - Planning ahead allows you to have 100% uptime on nearly every fight.
    Never aim for 100% up time on envoker's energy, you dont want to be evocating when you have that buff unless you have other priorities why you need to....
    In general you should be around 40/46 or 88% ish of uptime depending a bit on circumstances.
    Last edited by namliam; 2012-11-14 at 09:48 AM.

  7. #7
    The Patient Mûe's Avatar
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    Another solution would be asking the mage in your guild, which would be well... ME whos is constantly getting WoL placements to help you out a little bit. Its not like I wouldnt help you, you just have to ask....

  8. #8
    Lool hi andy :-)

  9. #9
    The Patient Mûe's Avatar
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    Schould I write something in here or PM or Guild Forum?

    Preferation?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by namliam View Post
    3. Nonsence, it is all about knowing the fights, when do you likely need to move? When can you stand still for 5 seconds....
    Reliably due to the nature of Fire overall Invocation is the best talent of the 3 depending on the fight for example Elegon Incanter's ward or RoP are the more viable options due to you cannot miss the 5 seconds in the sparks phase to Evocate IMHO.

    Never aim for 100% up time on envoker's energy, you dont want to be evocating when you have that buff unless you have other priorities why you need to....
    In general you should be around 40/46 or 88% ish of uptime depending a bit on circumstances.
    I have no trouble evocating on elegon, personally

    Yes sorry, that is what I meant to say

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mûe View Post
    Schould I write something in here or PM or Guild Forum?

    Preferation?
    Here so others may benifit from your nugets of wisdom too?

  12. #12
    The Patient Mûe's Avatar
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    Well First of all, get the right mage addons:

    a) Mage Nuggets - Personally my all time favorite. Easy to use, has ignite tracker and a nice Living bomb tack ui. Some other nice cooldown futures included asweel

    b) Weak Auras or PowaAuras - Track you cooldowns and internal cooldowns the good way

    c) Bossmod - Well pretty clear here

    d) quartz and Bartender for some nice ui changes an cast bars

    e) Some nice enemy bar addon... im missing the name for the one i use


    Second:

    Get some nice combustion makro...

    /cast Pyroblast
    /cast Presence of Mind
    /cast Alter Time


    Use the Macro as following: Wait till you have a Pyroblast! Proc -> Use the makro (you now shoot a pyro) -> use Pyroblast, if you have two crits use pyroblast again -> use the makro (you cancel alter time now) -> use pyroblast twice and if you get a crit a third time -> Use Combustion


    If i use this makro at the start my ignite usually ranges from 60 -100k wile all my trinkets are up. anything between 70-90k an i hit the combustion button before i land all pyros.

    There you go... works everytime.


    Proper use of invocation is key... i try to keep it up 90% it lines well with many encounter situations like Elegon and exploding adds or garalon and stomp or fen and earthquacke

  13. #13
    Your macro is it not consuming the Hot Streak proc before actually casting Alter time?
    Reversing it actually should give you more opportunity to get a decent ignite.

    You make sure you have Hot Streak, fish for a Heating up, finish your ongoing Fireball cast....
    PoM
    Alter Time
    !Pyro
    PoMPyro
    Alter Time
    !Pyro
    PoMPyro

    You are discribing this situation, but I do not believe that the macro would work?

    The key part of your post/advice is: "wile all my trinkets are up"
    Ultimately your combustion and your overall DPS boils down to control, make/build/use your combustion when you have procs/trinkets up preferably multiple.
    Same goes for Evocation, make sure you have your energy buff up... Dont start building your Ignite as described above when your Energy buff will drop off <5 seconds.

    Reverse also is true, your precious trinket, Relic of Yu'lon just proced, now you lose your energy buff and you have to choose evocate or use the proc and go without the buff for a while, QQ DPS loss either way. Knowing your ICD of your trinkets (possibly Lightweave/Jade Spirit) will make you aware of when these may proc again...
    If you have 3 seconds left on your ICD of Relic, 10 seconds on your Energy.... you are better of casting 2 FBs then evocating... Rather than risk procing Relic in the remaining 6 seconds of your energy buff.... make the most out of your combo of Energy + Relic instead of wasting part of either.

  14. #14
    "2. Only time when IB will fail to proc HS:
    - Your IB missed
    - You cast an instant cast (Scorch) before it"

    Are you sure? Im pretty sure IB works even tho i castet Scorch before that.

  15. #15
    70% of rune of power buff could come from the little bit buggy rune of power on Elegon. The center has to be inside the ring to give you the rune of power aura. If the center of RoP is outside the ring and you stand inside, while optically standing in rune of power, you won't get the rune of power aura. Also fell into that trap once and wondered about my lowie damage

  16. #16
    The Patient Mûe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by namliam View Post
    You make sure you have Hot Streak, fish for a Heating up, finish your ongoing Fireball cast....
    PoM
    Alter Time
    !Pyro
    PoMPyro
    Alter Time
    !Pyro
    PoMPyro

    You are discribing this situation, but I do not believe that the macro would work?
    Ahh im sorry.. i posted the macro in the wrong order. The way you described it is right

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Algoma0 View Post
    "2. Only time when IB will fail to proc HS:
    - Your IB missed
    - You cast an instant cast (Scorch) before it"

    Are you sure? Im pretty sure IB works even tho i castet Scorch before that.
    Yes you can make it work with scorch but the margin for error is MUUUUUUCH smaller...
    If you cast a Fireball or hard cast Pyroblast (the later you mostly hardly ever do) you have a full second to get your IB off.
    With a scorch your margin is reduced to 0.25 seconds, thus the likelyhood of IB landing to late is much higher

  18. #18
    Sooo.

    I tried multiple versions of the combustion macros, but it didn't even closely work out. It's not possible for me to get more than ~15k dps ignites on my target (dummy). With a shit load of luck i maybe reach 20k dps. I'm able to fire at least 3 Pyros in a row, but it just doesn't help.

    wtf is going on here?

    In my opinion 60k-100k EVERY TIME is a 'little' bit exaggerated, isn't it?

  19. #19
    iLvl 481 mage, I can hit 25k ignite ticks quite easily self buffed no food no flask no potion no raid buffs.

  20. #20
    1. The biggest contributor to high Combustions is ignite, so it matters a lot if your Instant Pyros crit or not. When pulling I sometimes get 60k displayed in Firebunny's Combustion Tracker but most of the Time its 30-40k.
    Our Tank has a 5sec pull timer macro and for most fights I use this:
    When you are ready for pull: Evocate before to have the Invocation buff up.
    -5sec: Mirror Images macro with Potion of the Jade Serpent (and on use trinkets if you have some)
    -3sec: Hard cast a normal Pyro
    After pull: put up Living Bomb and wait until you get the Heating up Proc. Use Inferno Blast to trigger Instant Pyro
    With Instant Pyro Buff: Use Alter Time, cast a Fireball and fire the instant Pyro. Then use Alter Time again and fire another instant Pyro.
    Then use Combustion. Depending on critluck it should be somewhere around 20-30k.

    Combustion macros suck... most of them use Presence of Mind which doesn't allow you to use Scorch and Scorch is awesome in movement fights.

    3. Rune of Power sucks. You limit yourself to that one spot and you "only" get 15%. I guess most people don't know that Incanters Ward has a passive effect that gives you 6% more Spellpower passive. On fights where you need movement and there is damage coming in, use Incanters Ward. The first boss in Heart of Fear is nice for this, I can use Incanters Ward on the circles and run into one circle or use it at the 3 Bubbles + aoe dmg phase. You can even use it before the pull and the gas will trigger it when the boss flies to a plattform.

    If you don't need to move much, you should use Invocation. Surely you have to stand still for 5sec and channel it, but after that your Pyro crits will rock and you get the high Combustions you want.

    4. You only need haste until you reach the 3039 cap (see here), then go for mastery instead.
    hit > crit > int > haste until 3039 > mastery
    Last edited by Leialyn; 2012-11-17 at 12:43 PM.

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