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  1. #41
    Mechagnome Fablewynd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosferato View Post
    brings up the new question, where the hell is saurfang, no way he's still stuck in northrend
    I hope they bring him back for the final raid. His speech with Garrosh in Borean Tundra had always stuck in my mind, especially:
    High Overlord Saurfang says: I won't let you take us down that dark path again, young Hellscream. I'll kill you myself before that day comes...

    I hope Blizzard remember they wrote that, all those years ago.

  2. #42
    Pandaren Monk Feral Camel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosferato View Post
    brings up the new question, where the hell is saurfang, no way he's still stuck in northrend
    He's currently in Northrend commanding a skeleton crew. I'm pretty sure we'll see him when the next threat to that continent occurs.

  3. #43
    Scarab Lord Chonar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenbrew View Post
    He's currently in Northrend commanding a skeleton crew. I'm pretty sure we'll see him when the next threat to that continent occurs.
    Pun intended?

    I thought that storywise, after Icecrown he went to Nagrand for the ritual burning ceremony of his son's corpse, to grieve.
    Fully expecting him to make a comeback soon. As a dwarf, I hate to admit it, but I enjoyed having him as our commander in Silithus.

    Also, about Aggra dying, I've said it before but IF this would happen during the Orgrimmar raid it would draw a delicious parallel:

    Varian's wife, Tiffin, dies in the Stormwind riots, riots caused by terrible leadership decisions and political intrigue.
    Thrall's wife, Aggra, dies in Orgrimmar riots, riots caused by terrible leadership decisions and political intrigue.
    "Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my comrade." - Albert Camus

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Sooba View Post
    While this may apply to some posters, it's a complete straw-man of what many have said in this thread.

    I'm not saying that I want the story to devolve into an us-versus-them. I certainly don't want all the heroes to turn into villains, or just die off. I don't want evil to win. I also very much enjoyed Thrall's story all through WCIII and multiple expansions. So none of what you're saying applies to me. And yet, Thrall is indeed a Mary Sue. He doesn't have to be a two-dimensional hate monger to break out of being a Mary Sue. On the other hand, it's equally true that Chris Metzen would never allow Thrall to have any negative qualities at all. When a character develops into some paragon of perfection, he or she becomes incredibly irritating.

    "You only insult yourself" when you peg anyone who disagrees with you as being "horrible judges of character" and "your (sic) just awful". Insulting ad-hominems have no place in this discussion. People have every right to criticize a story if they feel that it is weak or getting repetitive.
    There's no point in arguing with him about anything. Anyone who wants the story to progress in a meaningful way instead of everyone just holding hands and hugging is an awful human being who just wants to watch the world burn and probably kills cats in their spare time.

    I put him on ignore months ago so I didn't have to see his annoying borderline troll behavior in every thread.

  5. #45
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    As of right now, they are going around putting band-aids on on Azeroth's boo boos, courtesy of Deathwing
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by iamthedevil View Post
    Aren't you one of the guys who has been hoping for Thrall to call you up and ask you on a date in every other post?
    Lol, that's hilarious!

    Quote Originally Posted by Caelic View Post
    I hope they bring him back for the final raid. His speech with Garrosh in Borean Tundra had always stuck in my mind, especially:
    High Overlord Saurfang says: I won't let you take us down that dark path again, young Hellscream. I'll kill you myself before that day comes...

    I hope Blizzard remember they wrote that, all those years ago.
    Yeah, me too. I hope Saurfang will make a comeback, since the Horde seems to go into full-out Pandaria war-mode from 5.1 on, not to mention the internal conflicts.

    About Thrall: It's never fun when a great leader settles down, but it's good for him. The Horde no longer needs him as leader (no matter how bad you think Garrosh is, Thrall is no longer needed as Warchief), Azeroth no longer needs him to defeat Deathwing, so he needs a new reason to come action, and I think a kid and wife will be just that.

    Aggra was kind of annoying, but I guess the horde needed a female character next to Sylvanas. I just hope Zaela makes a comeback, she was a lot more inspiring to me than Aggra.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dynati View Post
    Patience and reason do appear to be in short supply these days in the gaming community.

  7. #47
    Saurfang and Rexxar to return from Outlands together... that would be epic. (Don't think the Alliance has any characters as epic as this :P)

    I seriously hope Thrall doesn't take back the Warchief title though, but rather him than Vol'jin or Baine then... Warchief is an orc title anyway.

  8. #48
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oneru View Post

    About Thrall: It's never fun when a great leader settles down, but it's good for him. The Horde no longer needs him as leader (no matter how bad you think Garrosh is, Thrall is no longer needed as Warchief), Azeroth no longer needs him to defeat Deathwing, so he needs a new reason to come action, and I think a kid and wife will be just that.

    Aggra was kind of annoying, but I guess the horde needed a female character next to Sylvanas. I just hope Zaela makes a comeback, she was a lot more inspiring to me than Aggra.
    I think your find, that given in 5.1, because Thrall has to come from being father and husband, to being liberator of the darkspear trolls, that your complete wrong on that account, and infact the horde does need him, given the shit that is happening.

    Did anyone step up and free the darkspears from there capture by the kor'kron? No.

  9. #49
    where "are" thrall and agra /grammar nazi

  10. #50
    Warchief Szemere's Avatar
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    Same place Tirion Fordring goes every time you help him kill Lich King. Some dark place hopefully never to be seen again, cause Blizzard doesn't know how2protagonist
    Ex-GM and Raidleader of the MoX Purple Kittens Raidteam on Twisting Nether (formerly Grim Batol), RIP, Winter 2010 - Spring 2013.
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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Oneru View Post
    Lol, that's hilarious!



    Yeah, me too. I hope Saurfang will make a comeback, since the Horde seems to go into full-out Pandaria war-mode from 5.1 on, not to mention the internal conflicts.

    About Thrall: It's never fun when a great leader settles down, but it's good for him. The Horde no longer needs him as leader (no matter how bad you think Garrosh is, Thrall is no longer needed as Warchief), Azeroth no longer needs him to defeat Deathwing, so he needs a new reason to come action, and I think a kid and wife will be just that.

    Aggra was kind of annoying, but I guess the horde needed a female character next to Sylvanas. I just hope Zaela makes a comeback, she was a lot more inspiring to me than Aggra.

    I disagree. We need him more than ever. Garrosh took us to the edge of breaking, he almostd estroyed the horde completely, we need someone as Thrall, respected by everyone (even his enemies) and with a proven capacity of leadership that we know it wont make the stupid mistakes Garrosh did.

    He built this horde, Garrosh almost destroyed it, we need him to rebuild it again, to "heal" it.

  12. #52
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    I disagree. We need him more than ever. Garrosh took us to the edge of breaking, he almostd estroyed the horde completely, we need someone as Thrall, respected by everyone (even his enemies) and with a proven capacity of leadership that we know it wont make the stupid mistakes Garrosh did.

    He built this horde, Garrosh almost destroyed it, we need him to rebuild it again, to "heal" it.
    Exactly. People have the bs assumption that because Thrall wanted there to be peace (which is what any GOOD leader should want) that he wasn't prepared to fight for his people, which is crap, he always fought for his people, and for the entire horde at that.

  13. #53
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerdozia View Post
    Was it just me who got pretty sick of Thrall in cata? Would be nice to let others have some space for a while
    Aggra annoyed me more, but I am glad we're not seeing them for a while.
    I am the lucid dream
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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    I disagree. We need him more than ever. Garrosh took us to the edge of breaking, he almostd estroyed the horde completely.
    The Horde can't "break" because of game mechanics. Blizzard would never break up a faction and tell people they can't play with their friends anymore. :P

    So because of all this, is why we can have so much fun with a warmongering Horde and awesome dictator like Garrosh. I can't remember the last time a game allowed us to have fun acting like warmongerers. It's always this uncreative "goodie two-shoes" nonsense that gets cramped down people's throats. Garrosh could remain Warchief forever, kill Vol'jin, Baine and the Horde still wouldn't break... because of gameplay mechanics.

    It's all just a FANTASY in the end ... I think some people need to be reminded of that a few times now and then.

  15. #55
    The Patient Krixooks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Exactly. People have the bs assumption that because Thrall wanted there to be peace (which is what any GOOD leader should want) that he wasn't prepared to fight for his people, which is crap, he always fought for his people, and for the entire horde at that.
    yes but I think what people are saying is that Thrall has fought again and again for the Horde, but now that he has 'settled down' and taken on other roles (how would he juggle leader of Earthen Ring and the Horde? and manage his mate and child) that he should perhaps step aside in the storytelling for some new characters who can take his place and lead the Horde.

    There are a number of excellent and intriguing Horde characters that could return to the spotlight or be resolved (die) instead of Thrall again. Saurfang, Rexxar, Nazgrim, Eitrigg, Zaela, and what happened to Nazgrel- Thrall's right-hand man?

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    I disagree. We need him more than ever. Garrosh took us to the edge of breaking, he almostd estroyed the horde completely, we need someone as Thrall, respected by everyone (even his enemies) and with a proven capacity of leadership that we know it wont make the stupid mistakes Garrosh did.

    He built this horde, Garrosh almost destroyed it, we need him to rebuild it again, to "heal" it.
    Disagreeing is ok, it's opinions after all. I was thinking of how to write my response, when I saw Krixooks already pretty much wrote what my point was:
    Quote Originally Posted by Krixooks View Post
    yes but I think what people are saying is that Thrall has fought again and again for the Horde, but now that he has 'settled down' and taken on other roles (how would he juggle leader of Earthen Ring and the Horde? and manage his mate and child) that he should perhaps step aside in the storytelling for some new characters who can take his place and lead the Horde.
    We need a different leader for the Horde, that much is obvious. Garrosh is going bad and needs to be replaced. However, we do not need Thrall back. It would be much nicer if someone else took up the Warchief job and also did a good job. I am not going into a debate on who should be the next Warchief, but there is no reason why it 'has to be' Thrall and cannot be anyone else. I like Thrall, he's a cool character, but his story should be pretty much told by now. It's time for new heroes with their own storylines, or old heroes returning to new glory (as Krixooks suggested).

    In short, the point is: we need a new warchief, but it doesn't "have to be" Thrall.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dynati View Post
    Patience and reason do appear to be in short supply these days in the gaming community.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Chonar View Post
    Kal-el. Some say his only weakness is Saronite.
    As a huge Superman fan, this made me smile. Thanks!

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Krixooks View Post
    yes but I think what people are saying is that Thrall has fought again and again for the Horde, but now that he has 'settled down' and taken on other roles (how would he juggle leader of Earthen Ring and the Horde? and manage his mate and child) that he should perhaps step aside in the storytelling for some new characters who can take his place and lead the Horde.

    There are a number of excellent and intriguing Horde characters that could return to the spotlight or be resolved (die) instead of Thrall again. Saurfang, Rexxar, Nazgrim, Eitrigg, Zaela, and what happened to Nazgrel- Thrall's right-hand man?

    Varian ahs a kid without a wife helping him and can lead without problem. Cairne had a kid without a wife helping him and could lead without problems.
    Earthen Ring leadership taks almost no time and if neccesary Thrall would give it to someone else if that stops him from helping the horde.
    You put Rexxar as an option, without realizing how stupid it is. Rexxar NEVER WANTED to even stay in a city for little time, let alone settle down in one. Saurfang, Eitrigg are old. Nazgrim has no leadership features, he is just a follower and no society will take down a tyrant only to put in charge one of his followers, that would be stupid.
    Zaela and Nazgrel have no development, you cant just throw a random leader there.

    Thrall is the only one that makes sense, and with him getting more in touch in the Horde politics again now that he goes save the Darkspears from Garrosh tyranny i think Blizzard thinks the same.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 11:34 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneru View Post
    Disagreeing is ok, it's opinions after all. I was thinking of how to write my response, when I saw Krixooks already pretty much wrote what my point was:


    We need a different leader for the Horde, that much is obvious. Garrosh is going bad and needs to be replaced. However, we do not need Thrall back. It would be much nicer if someone else took up the Warchief job and also did a good job. I am not going into a debate on who should be the next Warchief, but there is no reason why it 'has to be' Thrall and cannot be anyone else. I like Thrall, he's a cool character, but his story should be pretty much told by now. It's time for new heroes with their own storylines, or old heroes returning to new glory (as Krixooks suggested).

    In short, the point is: we need a new warchief, but it doesn't "have to be" Thrall.
    Again, i answered in the previous post, i would love if you can give an argument why we need a new leader and not Thrall instead of just saying so.

  19. #59
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    Varian ahs a kid without a wife helping him and can lead without problem. Cairne had a kid without a wife helping him and could lead without problems.
    Earthen Ring leadership taks almost no time and if neccesary Thrall would give it to someone else if that stops him from helping the horde.
    You put Rexxar as an option, without realizing how stupid it is. Rexxar NEVER WANTED to even stay in a city for little time, let alone settle down in one. Saurfang, Eitrigg are old. Nazgrim has no leadership features, he is just a follower and no society will take down a tyrant only to put in charge one of his followers, that would be stupid.
    Zaela and Nazgrel have no development, you cant just throw a random leader there.

    Thrall is the only one that makes sense, and with him getting more in touch in the Horde politics again now that he goes save the Darkspears from Garrosh tyranny i think Blizzard thinks the same.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 11:34 AM ----------



    Again, i answered in the previous post, i would love if you can give an argument why we need a new leader and not Thrall instead of just saying so.

    You can't dismiss concerns over Thralls family and then say that others are disallowed on account of being "old". Well, you can, but you'd be hypocritical. Those mentioned aren't exactly on death's door and are perfectly capable of leadership. The fact that "they're too old" just shows the classic Western bias and obsession with youth. A culture that the Orcs don't share, incidentally.

    The biggest reason why Thrall shouldn't be the next Warchief is meta. It's because he's already a massive Mary Sue, and needs some real personality beyond being Metzen's idealized form of himself. "Thrall-the-wise-badass-but-peaceful-with-no-personality-flaws-or-even-quirks-and-perfect-family-man-who-always-gets-it-right-and-saving-the-world" can only happen so many times before the bad storytelling gets really annoying.

  20. #60
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sooba View Post

    The biggest reason why Thrall shouldn't be the next Warchief is meta. It's because he's already a massive Mary Sue, and needs some real personality beyond being Metzen's idealized form of himself. "Thrall-the-wise-badass-but-peaceful-with-no-personality-flaws-or-even-quirks-and-perfect-family-man-who-always-gets-it-right-and-saving-the-world" can only happen so many times before the bad storytelling gets really annoying.
    I'll say to you what I say to everyone who makes this ridiculous statement. You think you know what a mary sue is, but your wrong. A mary sue is a perfect character without flaws and is the center point of every story in the franchise. Thrall is a popular character, but incase you are so dam unaware, he hasn't been involved in anything since the start of mists, and his mistakes are coming to surface even now given what Garrosh is doing, so he isn't perfect either.

    As for the crap about him being metzens ingame avatar, metzen himself laughed at that statement in an interview as being ridiculous, which it is, as metzen gives the same attention to Varian, Malfurion and other major characters.

    Your arguments are stale and redundant, showing a lack of foresight.

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