Incoming LFR Nerfs

[Otiswhitaker]

Ive only done the first part of HOF so far on LFR (and not at all on normal as my guild does not raid) on two toons so far. I looked at the dungeon journal for the fights and didnt feel TOTALLY prepared but enough so I would have some idea. Both groups managed ok on the first part of HOF - yes there were a few wipes, but personally I think expecting a LFR group not to wipe on new fights is unreasonable.

I do feel compelled however to say that the second group I was in was a total pleasure to be in - very rare for a LFR. Yes we wiped - but the whole group was understanding and patient and willing to work together to get the fights done.

LFR often is a collection of unpleasant people who only seem to want to blame each other for the groups failure to do something - but occasionally it can surprise you and be a joy. We hear so many stories of doom and gloom about LFR (among other things) that I think its good sometimes to recount the occasions (however rare) when it is a great experience.

However, I do think that a lot of people in LFR (often the normal/heroic mode raiders) expect too much of people in LFR. People who quit on the first boss on a brand new LFR where almost everyone has never done it before (only people who did it on beta and the normal mode raiders will have) because the group wipes ONCE and then start calling everyone names for not being able to do it - and then leaving...... What do they expect? You do a raid - even LFR - and you should expect that occasionally there will be wipes. Indeed I would find it very boring if everything was always a one shot deal. Part of the experience of raiding is wiping and people should be a LITTLE more patient with it sometimes.

I agree with everything you just said. I also find that it's the raiders that usually cause the most social problems in LFR -and- feel the most entitled with some weird grandiose expectations of both players, of what sort of things they should get. (The blessing is the few really nice ones who can seemingly carry up the entire attitude of a LFR by being nice and helpful, and not lobbing insults left and right, which is, in my experience, absolutely rare, but a delight. People, you don't always have to yell at people and tell them they suck. Be a decent human being and have some freaking patience!)

[Liliara]

Good I struggled THREE hours in that hell hole ( Both Amber and Empress ) granted I was playing SC II on my other computer between the wipes but it was beyond ridicilious

People ARE BAD like bad at this game mainly raiding like our tank was raid leading the entire thing AND THEY STILL MANAGED TO BE BAD AT IT

#1 Interrupt YOUR SELF by pressing the TWO BUTTON when you a contruct amber thing
#2 MOVE from the laser like wth WHY ARE YOU Standing there oh wait your dead GOOD JOB SMART GUY

/mad

It was like Galron all over again and I couldn't even drag my guildies in because they were locked already.

God that was atrocious that is all. No I am not joking it was L I T E R L L Y three g-dam hours in that LFR alright THREE It was like progression but LFR It was like GOUGING your eyes with a RUSTY spoon multiple times.

Okay I believe I've calmed down.

I do pvE from time to time since PVP can be a little boring when you do it for a very very long time via BG so I resort to my old habits which is obviously pvE

Maybe your tank was bad too

[nyc81991]

Blizzard should know by now that you can't throw 25 random people together and expect them to not do things like "blow up in the raid" or switch dps.

[Osmeric]

I don't know why people insist on dumbing stuff even further down,

Why don't you understand? It's crystal clear why. Are you just putting on an act so you can pretend it doesn't make sense?

[rowaasr13]

It was like Galron all over again and I couldn't even drag my guildies in because they were locked already.

You know you only lock to loot, not encounter, right? Or your guildies can't be bothered if there's no shinnies?

[Theholypally]

I don't know why people insist on dumbing stuff even further down, maybe its time for the mouthbreathers to learn how to play instead of facerolling it. They'll stop queueing sooner or later, or actually learn to not stand in bad stuff.

They won't learn how to play, ever. So it's either dumb it down or find a way to prevent idiots from queuing. Since the latter wont happen unfortunately ill settle with dumbing the shit down so I can kill the boss and get my chance at some fucking loot after 4 hours.

It's completely unreasonable to sit that long on an LFR encounter because constructs can't press 2.

[draykorinee]

Dumb it down please, not much fun wiping with 24 randoms.

[Gilian]

I agree with everything you just said. I also find that it's the raiders that usually cause the most social problems in LFR -and- feel the most entitled with some weird grandiose expectations of both players, of what sort of things they should get. (The blessing is the few really nice ones who can seemingly carry up the entire attitude of a LFR by being nice and helpful, and not lobbing insults left and right, which is, in my experience, absolutely rare, but a delight. People, you don't always have to yell at people and tell them they suck. Be a decent human being and have some freaking patience!)

If you are in there raidleading for three hours then you can yell as much abuse as you like in my opinion.

[DeadmanWalking]

The biggest problem with LFR is that Blizz can not compensate for people being too lazy to actually read the dungeon journal, googling a text guide to each boss or watching a youtube video. They just show up and out of fear that they will get booted they don't ask how to do the fight.They expect to figure it out as they go.

"Oh its just LFR." is no escuse, I've seen more wipes in lfr than in regular raids because no one can communicate very easily.

[Templis]

I'm sort of baffled as to why there's complaints about the difficulty level of LFR in the first place, especially by people who claim the place is already such a cakewalk. For all I care the bosses in there could have 1HP. You go there to experience a lite version of the content and to get used to and familiarize yourself with raid mechanics, not to gear up or for progression.

The people that complain about the newbies or low dps in LFR raids are hilariously hypocritical. I could understand if it's a heroic pug, but LFR? No one cares. Take it or leave it.

[Theholypally]

I agree with everything you just said. I also find that it's the raiders that usually cause the most social problems in LFR -and- feel the most entitled with some weird grandiose expectations of both players, of what sort of things they should get. (The blessing is the few really nice ones who can seemingly carry up the entire attitude of a LFR by being nice and helpful, and not lobbing insults left and right, which is, in my experience, absolutely rare, but a delight. People, you don't always have to yell at people and tell them they suck. Be a decent human being and have some freaking patience!)

Being a shiny rainbow of goodness doesn't help people press a button. Hate to spoil it for you, but if they get offended and cry every time someone gets "loud" with them then they should choose a different game. People don't want to read the encounter mechanics, or listen when people tell them nicely what to do, or pay attention to raid wiping abilities...if they DON'T WANT to do that, they don't DESERVE any kindness or other rays of sunshine after 3 hours of wiping because of THEIR incompetence.

There's a limit and kindness only goes so far. The raid doesn't wake up to milk and cookies the raid wakes up after a shot of bourbon. If not, they get replaced.

[MustangMark83]

Anyone else see Amber Shaper Un'Sok nerfs coming? I seriously fail to understand how simple concepts can't be done but yet again, this is another boss LFR is struggling to deal with.

*sigh* People...

They ought to implement a skill checking system and not allow baddies to join raids. For instance. You queue up to the skill checker, a solo instance where you will have to run your character through a gauntlet style event, killing stuff and dodging things on the ground. If you do sufficient dps and don't die, you pass. If you do god-awful dps, and stand in the fire and die, you end up with a horrible skill rating, and you aren't allowed to join a raid. They do a gear-check before allowing someone to join, why not a skill check? Both are equally important. Shouldn't be too hard to implement, just need Blizzard to give a damn.

[Thelxi]

Why do "hardcores" even care?

A. They are annoying people in general that would gladly walk over other people to get an edge irl.

B. They are not really hardcore.

[Exileos]

Why do "hardcores" even care?

Funny guy.
Other bosses got nerfs because people were too slow on the mechanics - this isn't about "hardcores", it's about the LFR audience and the wipe-tolerance people have before leaving.
As a fellow european I can't say anything about the difficulty of the fight on LFR, but I'd imagine you don't have to interrupt the boss in P2 (tell me if I'm wrong, still at work and can't try it out yet), that would leave room for prolonging the cast time to 5-6 seconds.

All in all, I'd say run LFR with guildies until we're a few more weeks in.

[Templis]

Being a shiny rainbow of goodness doesn't help people press a button. Hate to spoil it for you, but if they get offended and cry every time someone gets "loud" with them then they should choose a different game.

By that argument the 'raiders' can do the same instead of crying every time they wipe in an LFR raid because 1/3 of the players don't know the fight. No one is forcing anyone to stick around in a dead end 3-hour LFR to begin with. Just leave and have a fun run through with your guild. LFR is just meant to give a taste of the raid, after all. No use in getting worked up about it. The loot that drops in there is barely an upgrade from heroic dungeon loot.

[MustangMark83]

Blizzard should know by now that you can't throw 25 random people together and expect them to not do things like "blow up in the raid" or switch dps.

Well, I could do it, so can my wife, and our friends.... But 25 bad people who haven't even done so much as to research a fight? Yeah, not a good oucome.

[Templis]

They ought to implement a skill checking system and not allow baddies to join raids. For instance. You queue up to the skill checker, a solo instance where you will have to run your character through a gauntlet style event, killing stuff and dodging things on the ground. If you do sufficient dps and don't die, you pass. If you do god-awful dps, and stand in the fire and die, you end up with a horrible skill rating, and you aren't allowed to join a raid. They do a gear-check before allowing someone to join, why not a skill check? Both are equally important. Shouldn't be too hard to implement, just need Blizzard to give a damn.

Do you seriously think that this would improve the quality of pug raids? The issue has never really been that people can't move out of bad stuff. It's that they either don't know when the bad stuff is coming or what it is, since puddles on the ground can sometimes even be GOOD, or they simply don't care to and expect healers to work overtime.

[Cassidin]

They ought to implement a skill checking system and not allow baddies to join raids.

How exactly would that stop the normal/heroic mode players getting into LFR for the chance at their set bonus (for example) and going afk after needlessly dying because they cant be bothered with LFR and are just there for the loot?

I'm not saying that all normal/heroic mode players are like that in LFR - but there are a good (or bad) number of them that do this. LFR is beneath them so they get in and go afk for every fight. Having a skill check wont solve this because they have the skill - they just cant be bothered. Not sure how you could impliment a skill and "be bothered" check.

[Moltor]

I was very suprised when we got to amber shaper and its mechanics didnt change much. Normally raid finder trys to move FAR FAR AWAY from the blame game on single people. If a person fucks up there own interrupt and the giant construct (or mr.blobby to me) then they will get shot down in flames.

But seriously, all it takes is 1/2 people to know the fight and explain it properly to people (not just "pewpew deeps") then its job done. We 1/2 shot the last 3 bosses and i was the only person knowing/explaining tactics. Random pugs are willing to co-operate as its there time too

[Wildtree]

Is the outcome bad? Sure is. Are there less skilled people in LFR? Sure there are? Are they therefore all bad? Definitely not.
Rather the opposite would be the case.
If you are that naive to think that throwing together some 25 random people, with 1/3 not knowing anything about the fights at all. (was the first day in LFR for those 3 bosses), 1/3 does know, but isn't just savvy enough yet, and 1/3 who did it on normal already with their well organized guild runs, yet they don't feel the need to communicate at all... What is to expect as an outcome of that?

If you know how the stuff goes, and you assume everyone to be on your level, then it's you who's the baddie..... really.
Every single time shit hits the fan, it's because of some ignorant "elitists" charge in, without even a single word.
Especially tanks are good at that.... Bam, pull... Don't give a shit if people barely entered the room. Who cares about buffing, organizing. It's LFR !!!
Bam.... wipe.... Cussing at everyone and everything.. name calling.... Sure hell, that's gonna fix it.

Don't expect people to know the fights. That's not a default. Should it be? Probably.
But Blizzard tries to give people a feel about raiding at all. That's part of the learning curve, to realize that one needs to prepare a little.
Learning by doing. Hence LFR's lower difficulty and lower reward.

If you lack the patience and will to pass your knowledge on in a civilized manner, then stay the hell out of LFR.
Patience and friendliness gets you a lot further.
And if you think that cussing, bitching and insulting others in the raid gets the boss killed sooner, or faster, because it makes the others better, then you are not only a moron, but an idiot. You are a baddie in real life behavior.
And that's worse than being not skilled for a fight just yet.

Good raiders know that. And they influence to the better.