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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    sorry but as long as they are the only way to get charms they are mandatory
    I would like to see what content is denied from you by not having charms.

  2. #82
    Wrath: This is so stupid! You mean to tell me that I can only do 10 dailies per day? I have nothing to do after those 10
    Cata: ONLY 25? YOU DONT LISTEN TO US
    MoP: STOP FORCING ME TO DO DAILIES EVERY DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

    There are some very old blue posts on this, but back in the day people begged and pleaded with the developers to give them more casual content and to raise the daily cap. At first it was met with a big fat NO because as they felt that the player base had no self control, and that no matter what, someone will always try to do everything and yes burn them self out. As time went on restrictions were relaxed and you got more dailies. Now you have unlimited amount and free to pick and choose how many you want to do at any time. yet you still get a group of people who have no self control and complain the loudest.

    So why do dailies? Gear! You need 90 Charms and 1000vp to continue to progress your character while doing the minimal required
    Thats 13 dailies per day over a week to get 90 charms. at 13 dailies thats 455 VP. If you do the daily heroic (90vp) every day thats 630Vp
    So now by doing 13 dailies per day with one heroic thrown in. thats 90 Charms and 1085vp (capped off at 1000) and thats before you have even got into LFR

    As for rep? well you only need to reach revered to buy ALL the gear with VP. If you are smart and only do the minimal above you would have reached revered with at least every faction that sells you gear for VP and probably well on your way to exhaled for quite a few factions.

    If players can not use some self control then they reap what they sow.
    Last edited by pyrostorm9001; 2012-11-14 at 01:51 PM.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by kojinshugi View Post
    No, they can also raid, or run heroics, or level professions, or PvP.

    Oh, you've done all those things? The only thing left is dailies, and you hate dailies?

    What are you even asking for?
    - Raiding is done by a very small percentage of the population, so let's throw that one out.
    - Heroics are a good option, but they will get you to 463 ilvl maximum, once you've gotten a drop for every single gear slot.
    - Professions will give you an enchant of some sort that doesn't count towards ilvl. Some professions give you a trinket, so that's one gear slot worth of progression that you can get via professions.
    - PvP gives you PvP upgrades. It's a separate minigame that is ideally supposed to have no bearing on PvE progression, much like pet battles. I realize that, unfortunately, this is not the case. Blizzard knows this aspect of the game doesn't appeal to many players, so let's ignore it too.

    Everything else is random luck. Do I get a lucky Sha of Anger drop? Do I get something from MSV LFR? These are the only avenues for getting to the 470 mark required for HoF and beyond. If I log in and want to do something that isn't RNG-based to progress my character, it's going to be dailies.

    What I am asking for is to make heroic dungeons an alternative to doing dailies. That would at least please the portion of the population who enjoy doing dungeons, and does not take anything away from those who like doing daily quests.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 08:48 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Suizid View Post
    I would like to see what content is denied from you by not having charms.
    What content was denied to people by not having head or shoulder enchants? And yet this was explicitly given by Blizzard as a reason to abolish daily quest rep grinds. Does this make any sense?

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by mosely View Post
    - What content was denied to people by not having head or shoulder enchants? And yet this was explicitly given by Blizzard as a reason to abolish daily quest rep grinds. Does this make any sense?
    Not the same argument, as not a single bit of VP gear is needed for raiding. However head enchants were needed. (for the whole xpac i might add)

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by mosely View Post
    What content was denied to people by not having head or shoulder enchants? And yet this was explicitly given by Blizzard as a reason to abolish daily quest rep grinds. Does this make any sense?
    Charms are not the only way to get drops, they are just an optional extra.

    You have multiple ways of gearing up in MoP. You have options.
    There was only one way to get head or shoulder enchants. You have no options (not counting inscribers).

  6. #86
    Mechagnome kojinshugi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mosely View Post
    - Raiding is done by a very small percentage of the population, so let's throw that one out.
    No, let's not throw that out. Nearly everyone raids, whether it's in LFR or normals or heroic. Throwing raiding out of a PvE discussion is idiocy. It's like throwing battlegrounds and arenas out of PvP discussion and focusing entirely on Halaa.

    - Heroics are a good option, but they will get you to 463 ilvl maximum, once you've gotten a drop for every single gear slot.
    And? That will not happen overnight if you're some sort of casual player who only has an hour to play.

    - Professions will give you an enchant of some sort that doesn't count towards ilvl. Some professions give you a trinket, so that's one gear slot worth of progression that you can get via professions.
    What do you care for ilevel if you're not a raider?

    - PvP gives you PvP upgrades. It's a separate minigame that is ideally supposed to have no bearing on PvE progression, much like pet battles. I realize that, unfortunately, this is not the case. Blizzard knows this aspect of the game doesn't appeal to many players, so let's ignore it too.
    What PvE progression? What are you raising PvE ilevel for, you just said you don't raid!

    Do I get a lucky Sha of Anger drop? Do I get something from MSV LFR? These are the only avenues for getting to the 470 mark required for HoF and beyond. If I log in and want to do something that isn't RNG-based to progress my character, it's going to be dailies.
    Oh, so Sha of Anger and MSV are back in now. If you're against RNG-based progression, you're quite emphatically playing the wrong game.

    What I am asking for is to make heroic dungeons an alternative to doing dailies. That would at least please the portion of the population who enjoy doing dungeons, and does not take anything away from those who like doing daily quests.
    Heroic dungeons ARE the alternative to doing dailies. You don't get gear from VP, and you won't come anywhere close to VP capping if you only do the bare minimum of dailies required.

    I get it, you just want to go back to the good old "spam dungeons for JP and VP and get purples" model, so you can get into HoF LFR immediately. Sorry, but that model is not sustainable. It's a mindless grind with zero variation, you just spam Find Group until you're done gearing, then sit around whining there's nothing to do. If LFR is the pinnacle of your PvE progression, then you'll have to delay it a few weeks while you farm MSV LFR for some more loot.

    You know, how raiding has always worked.

    What content was denied to people by not having head or shoulder enchants? And yet this was explicitly given by Blizzard as a reason to abolish daily quest rep grinds. Does this make any sense?
    If you actually read blue posts, they explained it. Head/shoulder enchants will be necessary throughout the entire expansion. No one will be doing GL/Klaxxi for gear in 5.4, but everyone will still need shoulder enchants. They removed enchant grinds because they would force people to run outdated, abandoned content that was designed for group play.
    When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these?! Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    The solution is already in the game, but people just aren't paying attention to it.

    Dailies do not need to be done every day. If you want to do them every day, go for it, but you do not need to. A lot of slack has been built into the system to ensure that you can skip a few days every so often (or even an entire week if you like), and you won't fall behind in any significant way.

    Exalted is completely optional. Revered is simple to get, and you don't even need to get revered with all factions ASAP due to the weekly valor cap. So long as you hit revered with at least 1 faction every couple of weeks, then you're on target and can't spend your valor points any faster or get geared quicker.

    As for the charms, again, you only need to do 45 dailies per week, or ~6-7 per day. That's easy.

    The players have forced themselves to do dailies every day. Not Blizzard. Blizzard have built in a lot of clever slack points so that you can skip a few days of dailies and still stay competitive. Or even not do them at all, your choice.

    There is no daily problem. There is a community problem where people cannot control themselves and feel forced to do dailies, when the only person forcing them is themselves. THIS problem is why we got less content in prior expansions; because of this exact community backlash.
    And queue gif of dude's head exploding. You just blew my fucking mind; I never even considered that all you need for gear is Revered and Honored. Wow I feel like a fool for getting mad at dailies. And now, off to my lair to do the math to see what days I can skip and still not slack behind on gear...

  8. #88
    So your suggestion is I have something to do on Tuesday and nothing for the rest of the week?

    I log in on Tuesday, I do one round of weekly quests, I do LFR, and......then what do you propose? I run heroics repeatedly nonstop until my eyes bleed? I could do challenge modes if my friends are on.

    There's no problem to resolve. There's tons of content, you don't HAVE to log in every day. Stop acting like Blizzard is forcing you when it's a completely self enforced "requirement."
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Idoru View Post
    Charms are not the only way to get drops, they are just an optional extra.

    You have multiple ways of gearing up in MoP. You have options.
    There was only one way to get head or shoulder enchants. You have no options (not counting inscribers).
    There is nothing optional or extra when you are raiding. There is no excuse for not trying to replace your blue *whatever the slot is* with an epic if you have the time and the source to get it.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderball View Post
    There is nothing optional or extra when you are raiding. There is no excuse for not trying to replace your blue *whatever the slot is* with an epic if you have the time and the source to get it.
    And in what way Blizzard is forcing you to raid in the first place? If raiding is not for you, you don't do it.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by pyrostorm9001 View Post
    Not the same argument, as not a single bit of VP gear is needed for raiding. However head enchants were needed. (for the whole xpac i might add)
    How is this different? How is one needed but the other not? Is there something intrinsic about helmet enchants that make raids impossible without them? Or are they just a stat boost that helps make things easier, much like valor gear would do.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 09:39 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kojinshugi View Post
    No, let's not throw that out. Nearly everyone raids, whether it's in LFR or normals or heroic. Throwing raiding out of a PvE discussion is idiocy. It's like throwing battlegrounds and arenas out of PvP discussion and focusing entirely on Halaa.
    Nearly everyone didn't even buy the expansion, so I don't think you've got fact on your side with this line of reasoning.

    What PvE progression? What are you raising PvE ilevel for, you just said you don't raid!
    If Blizzard were to come out and say that daily quests were their solution to getting rid of welfare epics, I'd be ok with that. I could wrap my head around the idea that welfare epics deteriorate the quality of the game experience. But they're not saying that at all. This is just as casual a game as it's ever been, but they've just pulled a bait-and-switch move where people need to do something entirely different to get the same rewards they got in the past.

    Then again, I've had one foot out the door this whole expansion. Maybe I'm not the kind of customer Blizzard wants in their game anyway.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by mosely View Post
    How is this different? How is one needed but the other not? Is there something intrinsic about helmet enchants that make raids impossible without them? Or are they just a stat boost that helps make things easier, much like valor gear would do.
    valor gear is not going to work like it did in cata. it wont suddenly get upgraded to the next tier, so unlocking those vendors is not going to net you any advantage past the current patch. so therefore, no, they are not alike.

    in patch 5.1 there are EVEN MORE DAILIES COMING!!! 2 new factions (one horde, one alliance) and to get the 490-something ilvl gear from them, you'll have to do more dailies!!!

    is it required, NO! you can get the same ilvl from heart of fear and terrace of endless spring LFR. how do you get into that LFR, by doing heroic 5 mans to get into MSV, then by doing MSV to get into HoF/Toes. you do not have to do any dailies if you do not want to.

    dailies and valor gear are meant for people that DO NOT RAID OR DUNGEON!!

    if you either raid, or dungeon, you should only be running dailies IF YOU WANT TO!! not because your militant guild master/raid leader tells you to.
    where's the goddamned ESO sub forum?

  13. #93
    Brewmaster dryankem's Avatar
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    There was a decent comment I saw on WOW Insider, a dev posted the thought of having your first dungeon of the day add rep but that's it (personally would like that decision).

    As for dailies being mandatory they really aren't, I've done half a dozen days worth and have the tillers and Kalaxxi to rev (Kalaxxi just shy), heck I had Kalaxxi to Honoured just by finishing the quests in the area. I'm sitting at an ilvl of 365 (all dungeon or LFR gear) and have yet to spend a single VP. I'm getting close to having to spend my vp (I have 2k) but I can easily buy an item or 2 from the Kalaxxi (OS if I need to) and then wait for 5.1 to bring the VP upgrades and I'd never have to work on a faction again if I don't want to.

    If your someone that has to cap every week and are in a fairly decent progression guild than yes you probably want to do your dailies (but that's your choice to want to progress that fast) but most of those people are likely done with reps or have enough open to spend every point collected so far anyways.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Suizid View Post
    And in what way Blizzard is forcing you to raid in the first place? If raiding is not for you, you don't do it.
    There is no other point of playing this game for the competitive individual ever since PvP became a broken piece of shit, meaning since mid-Wrath. And if you are not a competitve individual there is no point in playing sub-based MMO AT ALL.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    So your suggestion is I have something to do on Tuesday and nothing for the rest of the week?

    I log in on Tuesday, I do one round of weekly quests, I do LFR, and......then what do you propose? I run heroics repeatedly nonstop until my eyes bleed? I could do challenge modes if my friends are on.

    There's no problem to resolve. There's tons of content, you don't HAVE to log in every day. Stop acting like Blizzard is forcing you when it's a completely self enforced "requirement."
    So much this.

    I just wish people would do what they want in the game.

    If the game does not work exactly how you want right now I am sorry about that (I truly am), and things will change over time.

    I do not 100% pretend than the system is perfect (and neither does Blizzard) but its worth remember every single change Blizzard will gate 100% hate and loath from someone somewhere (there was even a Rant about how they should not give the Cinder Cub pet money to Charity as they are just using it as a PR stunt).

    But I know one thing I LOVE logging on and having a CHOICE of things to do, (Dailies, Heroics, Challenge Modes, LFR, Normal Raids (uber casual) and PvP).

    All of the above help with PvE character progression but in say WotLK it was do daily heroic and raid.

    No thanks I love where we are now.

  16. #96
    Mechagnome kojinshugi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mosely View Post
    Nearly everyone didn't even buy the expansion, so I don't think you've got fact on your side with this line of reasoning.
    So basically now you want to discuss the MoP endgame in the context of people who don't have MoP.

    Okay.
    When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these?! Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    So your suggestion is I have something to do on Tuesday and nothing for the rest of the week?

    I log in on Tuesday, I do one round of weekly quests, I do LFR, and......then what do you propose? I run heroics repeatedly nonstop until my eyes bleed? I could do challenge modes if my friends are on.

    There's no problem to resolve. There's tons of content, you don't HAVE to log in every day. Stop acting like Blizzard is forcing you when it's a completely self enforced "requirement."
    So your basicly saying that all your content for you rest of the week is doing... dailies? Where's those tons of content and why are you against weekly quests if you can do tons of content and dont do those boring repetitive dailies until your eyes BLEED?

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    I will try it like this then: Your analogy sucks.
    Again, fantastic critique. You perfectly explain why you don't agree with the analogy and I can now reflect on this new information and perhaps refine my own ideas.

    To be clear, I want a discussion, not your waste of forum space rants that you don't agree with me.
    I am the lucid dream
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  19. #99
    High Overlord Jaroko's Avatar
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    The solution is already in the game, but people just aren't paying attention to it.

    Dailies do not need to be done every day. If you want to do them every day, go for it, but you do not need to. A lot of slack has been built into the system to ensure that you can skip a few days every so often (or even an entire week if you like), and you won't fall behind in any significant way
    I can back this up, Everyone has an Opinion, I understand this more that others. However it does get a little annoying when people say keep moaning over and over about Rep grinds and dailys. If you want the EXTRA roll, I belive you should work for it. Dont you think so too? As for REP. I've only done the Halfhill stuff, Nothing beyond that. Nothing on my 2 Alts. Skiped everything and doing just great.

  20. #100
    Brewmaster dryankem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderball View Post
    There is no other point of playing this game for the competitive individual ever since PvP became a broken piece of shit, meaning since mid-Wrath. And if you are not a competitve individual there is no point in playing sub-based MMO AT ALL.
    Actually the point of playing the game is to have fun, you don't have to be competitive to have fun in a sub-based MMO. If you are competitive than Arena and Heroic raids are the places for you (or even extreme soloing or challenge modes) but if you were a true competitor I don't think an RPG MMO would be a good place for you as you are at the mercy of the game balances, plus RNG and it's truly not skill vs skill.

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