1. #1

    Is Primal Elementalist even used?

    Hello

    The Elemental shaman guide on this forum says the following:

    For Elemental Unleashed Fury is right out. It's damage contribution is lower than the other two talents, and it complicates the stationary rotation while removing options for the mobile rotation. Of the remaining two, Elemental Blast is ahead of Primal Elementalist by 2-3% in an ideal test, however it does complicate the rotation a bit whereas Primal Elementalist is easier to use and works better on encounters with burn phases.

    In short, it will come down to personal preference between Elemental Blast & Primal Elementalist.
    Howevver, does anyone actually used this? And on which fights? As far as i am concerned, the fights with intense burn phases are of a dps check during the whole encounter which should make EB the superior choice.
    WTB your opnions on this

  2. #2
    I use it when I have issues to cast EB on CD (for example a lot of movement) and I used it when I tried to get some profit from Earth Elementals "take lesser damage" buff on me.
    I wouldn't use it when I need some burst damage to kill something like orbs on Elegon fight.

  3. #3
    The question should be why does the guide consider Unleashed Fury inferior. From my internal testing and "some" math, it is on par with Elemental Blast, with Elemental Blast being slightly better.

  4. #4
    edit
    should use a dictionary before answering next time ...
    Last edited by Nebria; 2012-11-14 at 05:56 PM.

  5. #5
    I use it on my Resto Shaman, for more % healing and reduced damage. Its a really good talent

  6. #6
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoebro View Post
    Hello

    The Elemental shaman guide on this forum says the following:



    Howevver, does anyone actually used this? And on which fights? As far as i am concerned, the fights with intense burn phases are of a dps check during the whole encounter which should make EB the superior choice.
    WTB your opnions on this
    I use it depending on the fight. If I need short-term burst, for instant on Elegon, I'm using EB to get an extra hard-hitter for sparks. For other fights, I'll go PE. I'm trending towards EB more often than not recently on fights where you could use either, but that's totally for subjective reasons; I like the feel of the rotation with EB included.

    If there's no major mechanic mandating one or the other (Elegon, for sparks, really favors EB, for instance), you can basically go with either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    The question should be why does the guide consider Unleashed Fury inferior. From my internal testing and "some" math, it is on par with Elemental Blast, with Elemental Blast being slightly better.
    You'd have to explain what testing you've done.

    A few tests on dummies or a handful of raids isn't even close to the amount of data you need to draw a conclusion. You need dozens if not hundreds of hours of combat to statistically reduce the influence of RNG enough to exclude it as a factor. This is why we use sims; they're a restricted and predictable environment, but more important, you're simulating thousands of attempts, precisely to eliminate RNG as a factor.

    The differences aren't huge, either. Unleashed Fury isn't that bad, really. It's just that, on most fights, it averages ever so slightly worse than both Primal Elementalist or Elemental Blast. The fights where you'd be able to take advantage of a short-cooldown buff to your DPS, you're better off taking EB. The fights where you're better off with a big burst phase, PE is better than either.

    I'm hopeful they'll overhaul our imbue system soon, allowing us to refresh without incurring a GCD, or at least incurring a GCD that only affects imbues, because right now one of the great strengths of UF is flexibility, and having to use a GCD to engage it means that this factor can't generally be used much, in either PvP or PvE.

    If there were an imbue-only GCD, then for Imperial Vizier Vor'lok, for instance, you could pop Frostbrand Weapon and Unleash at a phase shift, giving you the sprint to get through the cloud faster, returning to your normal imbue once you're out (and with no DPS loss, since you could swap the imbue and immediately cast, which is the main reason we DON'T bother with this currently; that GCD means you've lost the benefit of the faster movement). Just as an example of what I mean. I'd be okay with UF being slightly lower on straight DPS if the extra utility were easier to access.


    That all applies to Elemental, primarily; Resto benefits from having a better instant cast, and Enhancement uses UE and benefits from two effects rather than one.

  7. #7
    well for me its a very clear choice
    pve=ele.bl
    pvp=primal elem

  8. #8
    I used PE on Windlord Hc, Eb is useless for AoE anyway and PE with FE Glyph was Insane Dps Boost on Mel'jarak during Recklessness phases.

    Aside from that, no, mostly because i never saw a real advantage for choosing this talent on Raid Encounters and the rotations seems much cooler with EB instead of the usual rotation without it.
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  9. #9
    Re: Unleashed Fury, there's also the extra dependence on using Unleashed Lightning for mobile DPS with this talent, as your additional mobile stuff will often be on cooldown.
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  10. #10
    The Patient
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    Personally, I use PE almost always (orc, elem). Simming it, Simcraft consistantly puts PE ahead of Elem Blast by about 250-500 dps -- which isn't much, but in consideration with the utility (i.e. earth elem's controllable taunt) and greater mobility (no worrying about standing still for EB), is enough for me.

  11. #11
    I always use PE as elemental.
    just because i like the rotation muuuch better and i like the mobility.
    i dont know if i loose any dps with that, and also.. i dont care it cant be that much

    fun>all

  12. #12
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    I start the fight with PE, reglyph on the countdown and go with Elemental Blast.

    I'm really hoping that with 4 set, UE becomes viable, because I hate EB with a passion.

  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    Elemental is just my secondary spec, but I had to do a bit of raiding with it recently (god, my ele gear is a mess that would make every self-respecting ele shaman cringe in horror ^^), so I had to think about which talents I want to use.

    I ended up with PE for Mel'jarak because I figured that I was going to do way too much AoE to bother with another single-target attack.

    But I went EB for Un'sok, simply because I wanted another quick, hard-hitting cast to get those pesky little adds away from the healers (it's what I'd want dps to do when I heal there eventually).


    When I'm resto, I pick my talents according to my task. When I know that I'll be keeping my attention mostly on tanks, I'll grab UF. When I know that I'll be focusing more on the raid or if we can use a bit more raid-dps, I'll grab PE.
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