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  1. #21
    Immortal Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iWolfBanei View Post
    If 1 dps could kill a healer, then 2v2, 3v3, 5v5, BGs, RBGs and duels would be crap - everything would be pointless and bursty, having a healer would be pointless so everyone would just roll DPS.

    So yes, 1v1, a healer should theoretically never die to a DPS if neither makes a mistake. That includes not eating interrupts (unless on purpose).
    Agreed, but surely going into a 1v1 situation as a dps facing a healer, having to know that unless the healer is near afk, you're not going to win seems a bit rubbish.
    I am the lucid dream
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  2. #22
    it's cata's fault. that xpac created a lot of entitlement rogues. EI.. bad rogues who expect to face roll their way through healers.

    they could use a slight buff.. but nothing as drastic as people seem to believe.

    drop vanish cd by like.. half imo. keep cloak cd high..let em use it vanish in between dots and get garrots etc. stuff to make it fun again maybe.
    Last edited by Lulbalance; 2012-11-15 at 04:34 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    Why do people still take Swifty's videos serious? He usually rigs videos in a way to make them show what he wants to show. That Rogue isn't using half of his abilities, he's in the worst possible spec for PvP (Combat) and he isn't even trying to win.

    EDIT:
    Right I should answer the OP's question huh?
    Rogues are a tad bit behind but not by a massive amount. What most Rogues are complaining about is mobility, and I personally don't believe those Rogues have tried Paralytic Poison yet because that solves most mobility issues. This video is nowhere near an accurate representation of the Rogue class.
    Why is combat the 'worst possible spec'? If I was going 1v1 with a rdruid I'd use combat spec (I play sub in arenas, combat in rbgs). Sub pressure is dire and the burst isn't enough to drop a non-retarded rdruid 98%>0 in the 12second window you get from dance and 2xevis. Muti isn't that amazing either, at least combat gives you good sustained dmg inbetween ARs and gives you a free root breaker from KS.

    Rogues are not a 'tad behind', they are in a bad state thanks to other DPS classes being too strong. Once 5.1 arrives things should be better, but mobility will remain an issue. Paralytic Poison helps slightly but it's not a fix - the shiv is unreliable and as Sendai said, crippling poison has been harshly nerfed.

    Edit: @Lulbalance

    My suggestion for fixing the rogue class would be to drop CoS CD to 60-90seconds, baseline shadow step and replace it on the talent tree with a passive buff that reduces its cooldown closer to charge/blink. I don't think you'll find many non-drooling rogues who actually want a DPS increase.
    Last edited by Dcruize; 2012-11-15 at 04:51 PM.
    Stormscale Horde EU | http://lastrogue.com

  4. #24
    Dreadlord rektbrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sendai View Post
    Paralytic is a bit of a gamble due the 20% proc on crippling via Deadly Brew. You may be autorun kited that way if it just decides to not proc and you're never in range for shiv'ing them. Then you have to either sprint (one minute CD) or use Shadowstep and open yourself to being kited hardcore afterwards.

    Prey on the Weak + TotT gives a very nice bonus to team-mates. That's why many people are not going for Paralytic.

    Anyways, rogues don't need a buff. They are an incredibly fun class, totally balanced, perfectly designed who is great at ganking people in World PVP and picking up low health targets in random BGs. Least used class at 90? Least represented class in arenas? People obviously need to learn to play. Or this is what I've been hearing for months.
    no they are shit at arenas. what do rogues bring to the table that a warrior/ret/dk doesn't? that's the issue
    this game sucks

  5. #25
    I think that's /sarcasm
    Stormscale Horde EU | http://lastrogue.com

  6. #26
    Stood in the Fire Davoo2080's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gangresnake View Post
    It's representative of any DPS vs any Heal, you cannot kill them
    unless you are a warrior.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by rektlol View Post
    no they are shit at arenas. what do rogues bring to the table that a warrior/ret/dk doesn't? that's the issue
    lol.
    rogues bring superior control and peeling capacity than a dk/ret. they also arguably have better survivability.
    rogues just got spoiled by their insane damage during cata, now they are back to being a control class, which is where they are supposed to be.

    warriors are just over tuned, why would you bring any other melee other then a warrior?
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    lol.
    rogues bring superior control and peeling capacity than a dk/ret. they also arguably have better survivability.
    Seriously? Better survivability than a dk/ret?
    lol.
    Stormscale Horde EU | http://lastrogue.com

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Dcruize View Post
    Seriously? Better survivability than a dk/ret?
    lol.
    ret's passive survivability has been gutted, both dks and rets are incredibly fragile given how active their survivability tools are and how vulnerable they are to silences, rets have zero cooldowns against physical damage unless they specifically glyph for it or burn immunities.

    rogues continue to have both anti magic and anti melee cooldowns and any number of control tools and combat reset mechanics. you just think survivability is bad because you can't vanish and recoup to full anymore..
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Strah View Post
    l2p that is.

    A dps will not kill a healer unless the dps is a warrior. And only due to gag order.

    Especially a druid healer.
    I think a smart, well geared mage/lock/spriest *can* eat a healers food. I haven't had much chance to play this Xpac but at least this is the way it was prior. Has that much really changed?

    /not a flame

    *edit* can
    Last edited by Blackeyecycle; 2012-11-15 at 08:15 PM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Funkthepunk View Post
    Shamans are currently the top 1# healer. Druids aren't first in line to get nerfed if Blizzard decides to nerf any healer spec (and not just a 15% across the line).
    They really need to do something about Tremor Totem. I don't know why they haven't done anything yet.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by rektlol View Post
    no they are shit at arenas. what do rogues bring to the table that a warrior/ret/dk doesn't? that's the issue
    Wait Wait.. what?

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeyecycle View Post
    Wait Wait.. what?
    It was a valid question. Apart from Ret's lack of silencing abilities (guessing the shield toss isn't ret?) everything a rogue can do other classes can do, often better (pre-5.1 at least).
    Last edited by Dcruize; 2012-11-16 at 11:25 AM.
    Stormscale Horde EU | http://lastrogue.com

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Dcruize View Post
    It was a valid question. Apart from Ret's lack of silencing abilities (guessing the shield toss isn't ret?) everything a rogue can do other classes can do, often better (pre-5.1 at least).
    rogue control is superior to dk/ret control, good ones can easily solo peel for teammates.
    the problems with rogues is that their mobility isn't that great and their synergy isn't as good as a warrior's is right now.

    why fix rogues when the problem isn't with rogues, its with warriors?

    anyway, i'm sure gear scaling will return rogues to their place of dominance next season.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    rogue control is superior to dk/ret control, good ones can easily solo peel for teammates.
    the problems with rogues is that their mobility isn't that great and their synergy isn't as good as a warrior's is right now.

    why fix rogues when the problem isn't with rogues, its with warriors?

    anyway, i'm sure gear scaling will return rogues to their place of dominance next season.
    Nice I didn't know gear lowered the cds on vanish, cloak, evasion, shadowstep, etc good to know. Rogue mobility and survival will still be shit no matter how much gear they get.

  16. #36
    Oh look, 2s -_-

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    Nice I didn't know gear lowered the cds on vanish, cloak, evasion, shadowstep, etc good to know. Rogue mobility and survival will still be shit no matter how much gear they get.
    rogues tend to be kind of average to a little above average for the first season of an xpac, its gear scaling that was mostly responsible for the insanity of S11
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    rogues tend to be kind of average to a little above average for the first season of an xpac, its gear scaling that was mostly responsible for the insanity of S11
    This xpac is different; rogues have had a load of key abilities nerfed while other classes have been given better mobility. Gear is not going to fix the class - 5.1 probably will, but I'm still a little bit sceptical that our mobility is going to be anything other than a handicap.

    In answer to your previous post, rogue survivability is undeniably bad when compared to other classes. Even with 30% dmg reduction from feint, rogues are easy kills. With damage nerfs in 5.1, rogue survivability should be better but atm you can just tunnel a rogue into the ground.
    Last edited by Dcruize; 2012-11-16 at 11:29 AM.
    Stormscale Horde EU | http://lastrogue.com

  19. #39
    Rogues should have the highest mobility of all classes, because their main stat as a class is agility and it just makes sense with their lore, in pvp they should be balanced around that.

    But they do not need to do super dmg, super burst and have the most cc, just some based on spec, super mobility and super stealthy it is for the class, a druid shouldn't be able to kite a rogue like this, but he always did in this game. The Best rogues even lost in cata to druids in duels.(but here ferals, only)

    So basicly, rogues should be the one melee class that can't be kited, but i think devs lost their focus on this class and its role.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Dcruize View Post
    This xpac is different; rogues have had a load of key abilities nerfed while other classes have been given better mobility. Gear is not going to fix the class - 5.1 probably will, but I'm still a little bit sceptical that our mobility is going to be anything other than a handicap.
    10 energy off bos isn't going to do anything and thats all they did....
    Quote Originally Posted by Dcruize View Post
    In answer to your previous post, rogue survivability is undeniably bad when compared to other classes. Even with 30% dmg reduction from feint, rogues are easy kills. With damage nerfs in 5.1, rogue survivability should be better but atm you can just tunnel a rogue into the ground.
    What dmg nerfs the only class that got any burst nerfs was hunters everything else only got utility nerfs you will die just as fast in 5.1 as now.

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