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  1. #1
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    Rogue buff, druid nerf or L2P?



    I don't PvP, so I'm not all clued up, I know a lot of rogues are unhappy with the current state of things and this video worried me.

    Is it representative of the current state of rogue pvp?
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  2. #2
    I can't watch it with sound right now, but i'm not sure what this video is meant to show.

    Resto Druids are one of the best healers for surviving against slow, constant damage. Without purges / swaps they are very good, the resto druid wasn't even displacing, rooting or running LoS and he was barely under pressure.

    Rogues arent amazing against healers without help, Druids are amazing 1v1 if they dont have huge burst. I must say though, I've seen rogues do A LOT more damage than Mercader was doing.

    No matter what though, healers shouldn't die 1v1 to low damage and uncoordinated burst.

    Oh, and to answer the title: Rogues could do with a buff, Druids don't need a nerf. Druids aren't as good as Shamans or Paladins atm.
    Last edited by Snuggli; 2012-11-14 at 02:20 PM.

  3. #3
    Is it representative of the current state of rogue pvp?
    It's representative of any DPS vs any Heal, you cannot kill them

  4. #4
    actually combat spec could win that
    problem is only works vs singletarget, if theres a pet/minion/other player killing spree deals no dps and without its not enough for a kill
    this is btw also why its useless in 3v3 -you will never get your target alone when you need it

    that aside rogue defensive skills are shittier compared to others imo
    Last edited by bt4; 2012-11-14 at 02:39 PM.

  5. #5
    besides the currently op'ed speccs (ms, bm esp.) there's no way to solo a healer and that's the balancing model blizz is going for, so rogues seem to be fine atm.
    other speccs just need massive nerfs in many aspects (trying to kill an ms as bm without cooldowns is impossibru because of the retarded selfheal through 2nd wind)



    p.s. before somebody claims me to qq about ms/bm, the only class i play is hunter and i hate having to be bm just to be "viable".

  6. #6
    ya rogues need buff idd

  7. #7
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    So, 1v1, dps vs healer, the healer should always win? That seems a bit, well not very fun, I guess.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  8. #8
    l2p that is.

    A dps will not kill a healer unless the dps is a warrior. And only due to gag order.

    Especially a druid healer.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    So, 1v1, dps vs healer, the healer should always win? That seems a bit, well not very fun, I guess.
    If 1 dps could kill a healer, then 2v2, 3v3, 5v5, BGs, RBGs and duels would be crap - everything would be pointless and bursty, having a healer would be pointless so everyone would just roll DPS.

    So yes, 1v1, a healer should theoretically never die to a DPS if neither makes a mistake. That includes not eating interrupts (unless on purpose).

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer
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    Shamans are currently the top 1# healer. Druids aren't first in line to get nerfed if Blizzard decides to nerf any healer spec (and not just a 15% across the line).

    Rogues needs to be buffed, but not in their ability to solo healers. No DPS class can solo healers (not including discs, and paladins vs frost mages). Also, the rogue in the video wasn't excellent at his class. It takes a true top player to beat an average/terrible healer, with the possible of exception of arms warriors and frost DKs.
    Last edited by Funkthepunk; 2012-11-14 at 09:14 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by iWolfBanei View Post
    Oh, and to answer the title: Rogues could do with a buff, Druids don't need a nerf. Druids aren't as good as Shamans or Paladins atm.
    After war/hunter and hybrid healing nerfs I think people are going to finally realize how bad hpallys are right now. The only viable comp they have is melee cleaves and kfc; they are still the easiest healer to kill (except for bubble) and easiest healer to cc and have the least tools for keeping teammates alive during cc.

    I do agree with the rest of your post though for sure.

  12. #12
    Why do people still take Swifty's videos serious? He usually rigs videos in a way to make them show what he wants to show. That Rogue isn't using half of his abilities, he's in the worst possible spec for PvP (Combat) and he isn't even trying to win.

    EDIT:
    Right I should answer the OP's question huh?
    Rogues are a tad bit behind but not by a massive amount. What most Rogues are complaining about is mobility, and I personally don't believe those Rogues have tried Paralytic Poison yet because that solves most mobility issues. This video is nowhere near an accurate representation of the Rogue class.
    Last edited by Bovan; 2012-11-14 at 06:46 PM.
    Bovan.9481
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  13. #13
    Mercader IS trying to win and he IS all of his abilities. He is a good rogue as well, hes not some random bad player.
    Bovan is correct, he is combat, which is not the best spec for pvp rogues atm.

    His gear isnt that great either, pvp power is what you want the most in pvp situations. He is mainly pve gear.
    However, I play a rogue currently with full honor gear, only 1 piece malevolent, but with 35 % pvp power.
    And whenever I try to kill a healer by myself, especially druids and shamans, I CANNOT kill it alone. Even when popping all my cds they just pop one of theirs, be it tree form or ascendance and they dont get anywhere near dying even though its just me 1v1 vs him. I have experienced this dozens of times while getting honor gear.

    Rogues burst, mobility is just not close to other classes atm. And healing is fucking ridiculous so that's why he cant even get this druid low, let alone killing him.

    Healing needs to be fixed and this will help out not only rogues but all classes altogether and pvp as a whole.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    After war/hunter and hybrid healing nerfs I think people are going to finally realize how bad hpallys are right now. The only viable comp they have is melee cleaves and kfc; they are still the easiest healer to kill (except for bubble) and easiest healer to cc and have the least tools for keeping teammates alive during cc.

    I do agree with the rest of your post though for sure.
    Yeah I recently said exactly the same in another thread. There is still TSG and Kittycleave that are really good and will stay really good I imagine after nerfs, but yeah, Druids and Paladins are fighting for 2nd spot definitely.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by iWolfBanei View Post
    Oh, and to answer the title: Rogues could do with a buff, Druids don't need a nerf. Druids aren't as good as Shamans or Paladins atm.
    druids are easily the best healer right now, i have no idea what you are talking about. they have the best control, the best mobility and the best versatility of all the healers.

    shamans and paladins are both pretty good, neither has any real glaring game play issues, but holy paladins really only excel at healing cleave teams, and always have, shamans have a bit more versatility since they have better synergy with casters, but neither compare to druids.

    the only reason you see so many paladins around right now is because
    A. KFC is a prime example of an excellent paladin comp.
    B. paladins are about the only thing that could survive bugged stampede+warriors
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    druids are easily the best healer right now, i have no idea what you are talking about. they have the best control, the best mobility and the best versatility of all the healers.

    shamans and paladins are both pretty good, neither has any real glaring game play issues, but holy paladins really only excel at healing cleave teams, and always have, shamans have a bit more versatility since they have better synergy with casters, but neither compare to druids.

    the only reason you see so many paladins around right now is because
    A. KFC is a prime example of an excellent paladin comp.
    B. paladins are about the only thing that could survive bugged stampede+warriors
    Good post. Totally agree that druids are # 1 healer, and will outshine rest even more after incomming nerfs to warriors, becouse after nerfs it'll be next to impossible to blow up MLD, MsPD and instead of being stomped to the ground through brute force, we'll be dieing in 30 secs of unavoidable cc chains (well more often then now anyway).

    Tbh imo removing dispell from hybrid specs was a step in right direction when that happened, but with time so much instant CC or AOE crowd control have been introduced that it became impossible finding a sweet spot between nailing another team in first 30 seconds of game with cd spam and standing in CC for absurd amount of time. Playing triple caster is in no way harder then melee cleave, and if you add a resto druid to the rooster game easilly turns in 3v1 as soon as 1 cc landed on dispeller. Spamable CC aviable to a healer is already overboard, but when he have acces to 2 spammable CC and lots of CC from talents in CC heavy team he won't even have to heal much. So yeh, Resto Druids for presidents.

  17. #17
    Resto Druids are not the best healers, shamans are by far with the vast amount of tools they have to keep thier teammates alive like tremor, SLT etc druids are easily second best healer but only work for certain comps

    on the rogue issue, Rogue damage is fine i dont know why everyone left sub it puts out some crazy burst. rogues mobility does need a buff though

  18. #18
    Glad this is getting some attention. The endless mana bar in particular was disheartening.

  19. #19
    Pandaren Monk
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    Not saying healers shouldn't be able to beat a dps, but Healers should be able to die 1v1. Not sure about rogues or if Mercader is a good one, but that shouldn't have taken that long. (and no one ended up dying in the end he forfeit.)

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 07:41 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Strah View Post
    l2p that is.

    A dps will not kill a healer unless the dps is a warrior. And only due to gag order.

    Especially a druid healer.
    That seems more like broken game design more than a L2P to me.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    Why do people still take Swifty's videos serious? He usually rigs videos in a way to make them show what he wants to show. That Rogue isn't using half of his abilities, he's in the worst possible spec for PvP (Combat) and he isn't even trying to win.

    EDIT:
    Right I should answer the OP's question huh?
    Rogues are a tad bit behind but not by a massive amount. What most Rogues are complaining about is mobility, and I personally don't believe those Rogues have tried Paralytic Poison yet because that solves most mobility issues. This video is nowhere near an accurate representation of the Rogue class.
    Paralytic is a bit of a gamble due the 20% proc on crippling via Deadly Brew. You may be autorun kited that way if it just decides to not proc and you're never in range for shiv'ing them. Then you have to either sprint (one minute CD) or use Shadowstep and open yourself to being kited hardcore afterwards.

    Prey on the Weak + TotT gives a very nice bonus to team-mates. That's why many people are not going for Paralytic.

    Anyways, rogues don't need a buff. They are an incredibly fun class, totally balanced, perfectly designed who is great at ganking people in World PVP and picking up low health targets in random BGs. Least used class at 90? Least represented class in arenas? People obviously need to learn to play. Or this is what I've been hearing for months.
    Last edited by Sendai; 2012-11-15 at 09:05 AM.
    Shadow Walk : Significantly increases Stealth effectiveness for 6 sec, but causes Stealth to be nerfed to justify its usage. In addition, it uses old Enveloping Shadows icon and has no sound, animation or spell effect to show that the skill is actually doing something.

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