Two-Hand Staff users again screwed...

[hiragana]

Well thats not hard when we had a legendary Staff lol. I guess since we have had that then those that like 1handers should have a turn. But they should just give even stats imo, maybe one give crit one give mastery or something.

[Mizzow]

I guess you could make a couple of arguments to why its the case

You need to get 2 drops instead of 1 (you can consider the time it takes or even bonus coin usage etc)
You need to get an extra enchant

In my opinion there shouldn't be a difference between the overall stats when comparing MH+OH Vs 2H, it should be a personal choice of looks

Funny enough I was going for MH+OH anyway, so no disadvantage to me perosnally, but I can see why this would annoy a lot of people, regardless of the numbers more stats is always better

[dennisdkramer]

This has annoyed me for a while, it seemed to always happen in pvp, though i dont arena anymore so i dont know if it still does. Im very casual these days though so il be going for the staff, even the transmog options are better imo.

In pvp the staves would always have more stam as a tradeoff for less int

[Twoflower]

I still wonder how hard it can be to make two equaly good items... Just distribute the stats of the 2hander over a mainhand and a offhand, how hard can it be ? -.-

[Ansible]

Can't make my mace look like Anathema... So that pretty much settles it for me.

[Morksen]

Heal:

Pala: Hybrid 1 Hand (Boss 6 HoF) Offhand Combo is better

Surely a MH/OH Combo is better than wearing no weapon at all

[huth]

Paladins are rather limited in the 2h department, yes. Maybe we can convince Blizz to do a healing polearm since 3 classes could use it.

[Dariela]

It's a 0.3% difference in total dps, according to my lock's sims.

Thoughts? If you like the staff better, and aren't playing absolutely perfectly with tiny lag, the best food, racials, and professions, fighting for world or server firsts, use the staff, you'll never notice the difference.

This.

For most people, a handful of stat is not going to make a difference either way.

Gear does matter in this game, I'm not denying that, but it doesn't matter nearly to the degree that most people make it out to be.

If you aren't playing like a bloody metronome, 150 int isn't likely to be noticed one way or another. If you are playing like a metronome, you aren't going to need the 150 int to get the kill.

[Kurzior]

It was not my point that they have never be the same. Its my point that they want to give us in option but there is none...

Lets see: Why would I pick the 2 Hand Sha Staff...

Mage: 1 Hand-Offhand Combo is stronger
Warlock: 1 Hand-Offhand Combo stronger
Ele Schaman: Hybrid 1 Hand (Boss 6 HoF) Offhand Combo is better
Schadow Priest: Hybrid 1 Hand (Boss 6 HoF) Offhand Combo is better
Moonkin:Hybrid 1 Hand (Boss 6 HoF) Offhand Combo is better


Heal:

Pala: Hybrid 1 Hand (Boss 6 HoF) Offhand Combo is better
Druid: Hybrid 1 Hand (Boss 6 HoF) Offhand Combo is better
Priest: Hybrid 1 Hand (Boss 6 HoF) Offhand Combo is better
Schaman: Hybrid 1 Hand (Boss 6 HoF) Offhand Combo is better

I really don't see a reason to pick the Two Hand staff.... Why was it even made?

First, its really not worth putting holy paladins in that list. There's nothing for the MH/OH combo to be better than, since we can't use staves.

As for why its in there? Simple reason would be simplicity of gearing path. You are statistically more likely to get a single piece to drop as opposed to 2 pieces of gear, particularly when those pieces are being competed for by so many specs. If the choice is between a 489 staff or a 476 MH and a 463 OH, the staff is going to be better, even if it might ultimately be replaced by an MH/OH combo of equivalent item level.

I agree its not the best reasoning, but it is something to justify having an alternate option for weapons that consists of a single piece rather than a pair of items.

[Azrile]

I hope I can make this argument.

If you look at DPS over the course of a tier, it might actually favor the staff. Let´s say someone decides they want the MH-OH option.. for how many weeks do you think they will be working with BIS MH and some other off-hand? That person has to get 2 drops.. so on average there will likely be at least a few weeks where they only have 1 of them.. during that time, the person who got the 1-drop staff is outperforming them.

Then the other part of that is timing.. when that player finally does get both pieces, it will be later in the tier when, in reality, that small dps gain will be much less important than if it was occuring earlier in the the tier. I would rather have my staff and be doing my best dps when my guild is still struggling through the content rather than have 2peices and be doing my best dps when the raid is on farm.

It really is the same thing Fury vs Arms deals with. In Sims, Fury probably should do better with BIS gear.. but there will be more weeks before they have BIS than Arms.

[Mûe]

Seriously... I dont get your aguments... Getting the Tonado thing from the second boss HoF ist going to be a real problem... The Boss only drops two items for mages and i think its worth using a coin if you havtn got the offhand... so this shouldnt be a problem to get a decent offhand.

[Imnick]

Seriously... I dont get your aguments... Getting the Tonado thing from the second boss HoF ist going to be a real problem... The Boss only drops two items for mages and i think its worth using a coin if you havtn got the offhand... so this shouldnt be a problem to get a decent offhand.

What about all the other arguments?

[huth]

This.

For most people, a handful of stat is not going to make a difference either way.

Gear does matter in this game, I'm not denying that, but it doesn't matter nearly to the degree that most people make it out to be.

If you aren't playing like a bloody metronome, 150 int isn't likely to be noticed one way or another. If you are playing like a metronome, you aren't going to need the 150 int to get the kill.

Even if you are a metronome, most fights are way to short for random effects to be normalized beyond a <1% difference.

[whatthefudge]

It was not my point that they have never be the same. Its my point that they want to give us in option but there is none...

Lets see: Why would I pick the 2 Hand Sha Staff...

Mage: 1 Hand-Offhand Combo is stronger
Warlock: 1 Hand-Offhand Combo stronger
Ele Schaman: Hybrid 1 Hand (Boss 6 HoF) Offhand Combo is better
Schadow Priest: Hybrid 1 Hand (Boss 6 HoF) Offhand Combo is better
Moonkin:Hybrid 1 Hand (Boss 6 HoF) Offhand Combo is better


Heal:

Pala: Hybrid 1 Hand (Boss 6 HoF) Offhand Combo is better
Druid: Hybrid 1 Hand (Boss 6 HoF) Offhand Combo is better
Priest: Hybrid 1 Hand (Boss 6 HoF) Offhand Combo is better
Schaman: Hybrid 1 Hand (Boss 6 HoF) Offhand Combo is better

I really don't see a reason to pick the Two Hand staff.... Why was it even made?

Okay here is what you do. Go to your raiding team and tell them that no spell casters are allowed to roll on the staff if it drops. The only items they are allowed to roll on for weapons are their Best In Slot 1 hander and offhand combination. If the staff drops, it has to be sold to vendor or disenchanted.

[blackblade]

It's easier to get one staff than it is to get one main hand + one offhand.

If you're like me, and have at least 4 casters in the raid, main-hand/offhand caster weapons are hotly contested.

[Samaramon]

Staff>MH+OH looks wise. That's why.

I personally could care less about the 0.25% dps loss, but I'd take a staff over a dagger/mace anytime.

[Friyn]

Unless you're a min maxer who's going for world first and #1 on logs it shouldn't concern you. 0.3% loss(someone simmed that, right?) is almost non existent. I would've gone with staves, but now that there's finally damage caster _SWORD_ avaiable I'm definitely going after it. Oh god how I'v missed TTT <3

[KoolKidKaos]

Staffs have always been the crappier weapon. The only exception was DTR.

[Mexa]

I am sorry that u cant have it your way, the rest of us will adapt.

[KoolKidKaos]

I hope I can make this argument.

If you look at DPS over the course of a tier, it might actually favor the staff. Let´s say someone decides they want the MH-OH option.. for how many weeks do you think they will be working with BIS MH and some other off-hand? That person has to get 2 drops.. so on average there will likely be at least a few weeks where they only have 1 of them.. during that time, the person who got the 1-drop staff is outperforming them.

Then the other part of that is timing.. when that player finally does get both pieces, it will be later in the tier when, in reality, that small dps gain will be much less important than if it was occuring earlier in the the tier. I would rather have my staff and be doing my best dps when my guild is still struggling through the content rather than have 2peices and be doing my best dps when the raid is on farm.

It really is the same thing Fury vs Arms deals with. In Sims, Fury probably should do better with BIS gear.. but there will be more weeks before they have BIS than Arms.

Good point, except one thing. What if next tier, Blizzard says, " Hey no one used that ugly staff we made, they all went MH/OH, except for the select few that enjoy looks over dps. Let's just make a healing staff this tier, since we don't have good staff enchants this expansion." Then, that cool staff if crap until YOU get two peices just to use something different, where as the sword/dagger users can just simply upgrade their MH or OH whenever. Main Hand/Off Hand is better because they are easier to upgrade, and ofc the enchants are far superior when combined. Just a thought