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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    For optimal DPS there's always a need to watch the swing timer for 2H frost, because Obliterate always hits harder than Frost Strike.



    Weird, my KM always procs at least a third of a second after my swing.
    Same here... mine goes almost 40% of my swing bar before it procs... freaking annoying.

    BTW, I was sure that I saw your name here in forums... saw some of your logs, fucking awesome dps! You should teach us some tricks!

  2. #22
    Having the same thing with my KM proccs, it tends to procc a bit after the autoattack. Also to some degree seeing the same with Scent of Blood when I am tanking

    This being fixed will be a good QoL change.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    For optimal DPS there's always a need to watch the swing timer for 2H frost, because Obliterate always hits harder than Frost Strike.

    Weird, my KM always procs at least a third of a second after my swing.
    Nice Rankings and Challenge Mode times Vereesa

    I'm currently 491 ilvl (489 Starshatter + 2PC bonus) and consistently getting top 100 ranks (usually top 20).

    How long do you find delaying KM beneficial? I used to delay FS but then read some theory crafting saying it was only a 1.3% increase if you do it perfect and if you delay it enough to lose more than one gcd combined or cap resources it's a dps loss. I then tried out not delaying at all and merely spamming out the priority which would generally have my rotation looking like Rime > OB > FS and not worrying about taking KM procs into account more so worrying about never capping your resources and maximising every gcd possible on a dps ability. I've found my dps in general has increased. I'll still delay Oblit sometimes when I know i'm low on resources so I can allow them to regen without losing dps but just not all that often.

    My KM procs ~ 0.5s after my mellee swing (play with 300ms).

    *fingers crossed I can get my hands on a Shin'ka this monday*

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerGamez View Post
    Nice Rankings and Challenge Mode times Vereesa
    Nothing against Vereesa as he's a great player but his group did exploit to get some of the insane challenge mode times. There was a bug that if you withdrew your gear from your bank via Jeeves while inside the instance, it wouldn't scale down. Kinda sucks because those times will be there forever, since challenge modes will never get easier.
    On topic, this is a great change for 2H frost and I think will be more of a quality of life improvement for top players than anything.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerGamez View Post
    How long do you find delaying KM beneficial? I used to delay FS but then read some theory crafting saying it was only a 1.3% increase if you do it perfect and if you delay it enough to lose more than one gcd combined or cap resources it's a dps loss. I then tried out not delaying at all and merely spamming out the priority which would generally have my rotation looking like Rime > OB > FS and not worrying about taking KM procs into account more so worrying about never capping your resources and maximising every gcd possible on a dps ability. I've found my dps in general has increased. I'll still delay Oblit sometimes when I know i'm low on resources so I can allow them to regen without losing dps but just not all that often.
    If I have a Frost Strike available and a KM procced, my personal general rule of thumb is to never wait more than 2.0 seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dossou View Post
    Nothing against Vereesa as he's a great player but his group did exploit to get some of the insane challenge mode times. There was a bug that if you withdrew your gear from your bank via Jeeves while inside the instance, it wouldn't scale down. Kinda sucks because those times will be there forever, since challenge modes will never get easier.
    I absolutely feel the need to correct you here; My group never used any exploitative methods in any of the Challenge modes instances and if I remember correctly all our current times have been re-done after the Vengeance nerf. The only unfair (I suppose to most people anyway) advantage we have is the fact that our group consists of 4 engineers and a Feral.

    Please do share where this information came from, I'd be interested to know.

  6. #26
    If you say you didn't exploit I believe you, but I'm curious as to how you managed a 9:14 time #3 is more than a full minute behind you. The same thing applys to Scholo where you're almost 2 full minutes ahead of #2. I don't see how that's possible.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    If I have a Frost Strike available and a KM procced, my personal general rule of thumb is to never wait more than 2.0 seconds.



    I absolutely feel the need to correct you here; My group never used any exploitative methods in any of the Challenge modes instances and if I remember correctly all our current times have been re-done after the Vengeance nerf. The only unfair (I suppose to most people anyway) advantage we have is the fact that our group consists of 4 engineers and a Feral.

    Please do share where this information came from, I'd be interested to know.
    I'm a feral who is an engineer who has yet to go into challenge modes because of group disinterest. Can you clue me in on why those are advantages?

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by GatorAJ View Post
    I'm a feral who is an engineer who has yet to go into challenge modes because of group disinterest. Can you clue me in on why those are advantages?
    Full group with nitro boots + stampeding roar I would assume. I have my doubts this is enough to explain a 2 min difference from rank 2 Scholo but meh...this is going off topic.

  9. #29
    Nitro boosts for everyone allows you to skip a lot more mobs, assuming you can spare them for the kill requirement. I've only done Brewerey, Shado-pan and Gate myself yet so wouldnt really know for the others. Protip: you can activate anything during invisibility potion, but whatever you activate right before that will stay.

  10. #30
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    Weird, my KM always procs at least a third of a second after my swing.
    With "right after" I didn't meant "the millisecond after swing/OB have landed" But usually yes, it takes something like 2-300 ms to see the proc but since I got used to this I don't have all those problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by olivete View Post
    Same here... mine goes almost 40% of my swing bar before it procs... freaking annoying.

    BTW, I was sure that I saw your name here in forums... saw some of your logs, fucking awesome dps! You should teach us some tricks!
    I give you my trick, even if I'm not so famous like Vereesà is. When swing timer reaches 0 your character STARTS the autoattack. It needs a good second more to see the autoattack lands so you have to time your OB-FS in a different way if you want to benefit the most from KM procs.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Dossou View Post
    If you say you didn't exploit I believe you, but I'm curious as to how you managed a 9:14 time #3 is more than a full minute behind you. The same thing applys to Scholo where you're almost 2 full minutes ahead of #2. I don't see how that's possible.
    I don't want to give away our specific strategies since that's pretty well all Challenge Modes are about, but our times all really do boil down to good play and plentiful pulls with exactly the right amount of skipping and pulling quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by GatorAJ View Post
    I'm a feral who is an engineer who has yet to go into challenge modes because of group disinterest. Can you clue me in on why those are advantages?
    Engineers have access to the Invisibility Field belt tinker meaning our entire group has stealth on-demand without having to waste 10 potion cooldowns on Invisibility Potions. As a Feral you basically have no need for it due to Prowl.

    Quote Originally Posted by Makro View Post
    Full group with nitro boots + stampeding roar I would assume. I have my doubts this is enough to explain a 2 min difference from rank 2 Scholo but meh...this is going off topic.
    We rarely used Nitro Boosts in Challenge Modes since the Invisibility Field was more useful in most instances. It was also fully coincidental that our group makeup happened to contain 4 engineers. Rest assured, though, that had I known of this exploit I would probably have used it myself just because I'm that kind of person.


    Quote Originally Posted by Italiandk View Post
    With "right after" I didn't meant "the millisecond after swing/OB have landed" But usually yes, it takes something like 2-300 ms to see the proc but since I got used to this I don't have all those problems.
    Yup, that's exactly what I was talking about. I'm pretty new to the whole 'watch your swing timer' thing so thinking 300 milliseconds ahead doesn't always work out for me on paper so 5.1 is just what I and I'm sure most other people are looking forward to.
    Last edited by Vereesa; 2012-11-16 at 01:10 PM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    I don't want to give away our specific strategies since that's pretty well all Challenge Modes are about, but our times all really do boil down to good play and plentiful pulls with exactly the right amount of skipping and pulling quickly.



    Engineers have access to the Invisibility Field belt tinker meaning our entire group has stealth on-demand without having to waste 10 potion cooldowns on Invisibility Potions. As a Feral you basically have no need for it due to Prowl.



    We rarely used Nitro Boosts in Challenge Modes since the Invisibility Field was more useful in most instances. It was also fully coincidental that our group makeup happened to contain 4 engineers. Rest assured, though, that had I known of this exploit I would probably have used it myself just because I'm that kind of person.




    Yup, that's exactly what I was talking about. I'm pretty new to the whole 'watch your swing timer' thing so thinking 300 milliseconds ahead doesn't always work out for me on paper so 5.1 is just what I and I'm sure most other people are looking forward to.
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    I'm pretty sure this is an indication of skill. Many players cannot do this.
    Oh sure, it's an indication of skill.

    ... A crappy skill. I remember watching shot timers on my hunter. It wasn't fun. At all. I'd rather actually watch and play the game, not my swing timers.

  14. #34
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laki View Post
    Oh sure, it's an indication of skill.

    ... A crappy skill. I remember watching shot timers on my hunter. It wasn't fun. At all. I'd rather actually watch and play the game, not my swing timers.
    True but you could just play the game and don't care about KM procs tbh.
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by laki View Post
    I'd rather actually watch and play the game, not my swing timers.
    Watching your swing timer is part of playing the game if you're 2h frost.

  16. #36
    What swing timer do you guys use? My Quartz swing timer tends to dissapear at times...

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Harzaka View Post
    What swing timer do you guys use? My Quartz swing timer tends to dissapear at times...
    It seems like Quartz has to wait for two swings before it gives you a timer? I recently tried installing it this weekend, and had issues with it appearing too.

    All in all, if you don't use a timer, then how quickly KM is delayed is irrelevant, since you have nothing to base the delay off anyhow. Rime matters though, since when you press Obliterate, there is a clear delay before Rime will show up.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    It seems like Quartz has to wait for two swings before it gives you a timer? I recently tried installing it this weekend, and had issues with it appearing too.

    All in all, if you don't use a timer, then how quickly KM is delayed is irrelevant, since you have nothing to base the delay off anyhow. Rime matters though, since when you press Obliterate, there is a clear delay before Rime will show up.
    Im unholy 90% of the time, i just enjoy Frost on some bosses, but the swing timer dissapears for the whole duration that im logged in if i dont change profiles, so i gotta create new profiles every time i log on...

  19. #39
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harzaka View Post
    What swing timer do you guys use? My Quartz swing timer tends to dissapear at times...
    Weak auras' one.
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Italiandk View Post
    Weak auras' one.
    Oh? Didnt know about that one, can you tell me how to get it please

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