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  1. #21
    High Overlord
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    DE roll is actually the main reason that the green essences are worth more than blue shards. Which is actually against blizzard's own logic.

    Rubbish excuses like "but you needed the whole group to get there" do not count, because neither miners nor literally people with any other existing profession can get their ores or whatever they're gathering in the dungeons without the effort of their groups. I've even had rogues that refused to open one lockbox. Or PuGs in DS that looted a BS Plan and then refused to craft it for me for free.

    I think blizzard should actually at least somehow add an option in "need for greed" mode, if the enchanter in the group is willing to share their ability to disenchant items with the other puggers. I'm sure most people are generous enough, but to be forced to do so as it is, I'm just feeling a little bit uncomfortable.

    Edit: Some people can't see the simple fact that without the DE rolls, shards would cost much much more than just vendor price of a blue, simple because there would be so much less of then on the market. So even if the enchanter still only gets the same amount of shards in 5 man pugs, he's actually getting more than the rest, because he can disenchant. As it is right now, I can actually roll need on everything I can in 5 man PuGs, because having a 100% or even a 50% chance to loot something and vendoring it, is going to end up more profitable than sitting on a 20% chance for a shard, which is also worth 20G. So yes, it's broken, and needs a fix. Don't think blizzard wants to encourage these kind of things.
    Last edited by Elemen; 2012-11-15 at 05:56 AM.
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  2. #22
    Another thread where the enchanter OP doesn't realize that dungeon loot (you know, those things you disenchant) still drops without an enchanter being present.

    Ore and herbs, however, do not drop when miners and herbalists are not present. Therefore the argument is invalid.

    It's a quality of life change and it better not ever change if Blizzard knows what's good for this game.

  3. #23
    The difference is that the enchanting profession relies on the ability to disenchant items. Those items are rolled for, whether or not an enchanter is present. You're not losing your enchanting materials, because you wouldn't have gotten them in the first place.

    Mining/Skinning/Herbalism materials are unobtainable without the presence of the appropriate profession. Furthermore, their materials aren't gained through items. Additionally, their profession is incapable of actually making use of the materials, save for selling, and they need to level up a second profession to use them.
    Last edited by StationaryHawk; 2012-11-15 at 05:45 AM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by kuku2 View Post
    Another thread where the enchanter OP doesn't realize that dungeon loot (you know, those things you disenchant) still drops without an enchanter being present.

    Ore and herbs, however, do not drop when miners and herbalists are not present. Therefore the argument is invalid.

    It's a quality of life change and it better not ever change if Blizzard knows what's good for this game.
    You misunderstand his argument, which is his profession is used irrespective of his consent. The loot does drop whether or not an enchanter is present, but instead of mats you would get the less valuable/ useful undisenchanted item which you would have to vendor if it was soulbound. His complaint is , his profession is hijacked, which is true.

    Your second point about ores and herbs not dropping is also inccorrect as far as I am aware. Ores and herbs in instances have always been present in instances whether a profession exists which can take advantage of this or not. Ghost mushrooms in Maraudon being an example.

  5. #25
    Dreadlord MouseD's Avatar
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    I still say this should of never been put in game...and I have two enchanters that are tailors.....some of the old world raids and dungeons still have critters that can be skinned...nobody gets to roll on those skins....there is still mines in old world stuff ....nobody gets to roll on the ore that miner just mined up....

  6. #26
    I don´t care if system "used" my ench to group roll table, its ok in raids if noone want blues or epics, but in HCs it pissed me sometimes off. I have bad luck on boss drop and this way I dont even have a chance to sell greens on my own. Every "idiot" choose "DE" if its there on greens, doesn´t matter if it is worthless 4g piece or plate/weap with vendor price on 20-30g...What I´ll get? Stupid 2-4 dusts...
    And no, since beggining, I have never win roll on greed when even one person chose "DE" so I very long time thought that DE has bigger priority on roll as NEED has...
    Maybe I´m wrong but as I have said, never ever won on GREED against DE...
    Last edited by Asparuch; 2012-11-15 at 08:15 AM.

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  7. #27

  8. #28
    completely agree with the OP.

    yes, without the miner, there is no ORE.
    but, without the DE'er, there are no ENCH MATS.

    derp?

    the only way to make it the fairest is to remove the DE option from the roll box and to let people do it manually. so you win a drop? ok, sell it for gold or if it's boe, pay a de'er to de it for you. same with the miner. so you get some ore from a dungeon? grats! sell it for gold or use it yourself/alt.

    i would not even vote for the miner/skinner to have their proceeds available for group roll, since their items are found "in the wild." Bring it back to vanilla/bc system and it will be all equal again. non-miners/skinners can't mine/skin stuff in dungeons/the wild, and non-enchanters can't roll for DE mats from items that drop in the wild.

    logical to me.

    edit: funny part to me is when other people see "xx was disenchanted by speakpkhq" but they see that i rolled greed and ask why not DE. i explain that guild perk gives me extra mats when i de manually, and then they get mad. stfu!

  9. #29
    Herald of the Titans Gobra's Avatar
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    I don't think you searched very well OP:P There has been many a discussion on this topic
    And basically it comes down to asking for it to be removed,on the basis we can't roll on skinned/mined is just silly, because you don't learn DEing as a seperate proff Plus it makes things abit easier because (for me anyway) being an enchanter i always used to do the DEing a the end of dungeons etc anyway, i also think it''s greedy to think they're somehow your mats
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. I present to you the newest in Stark Industries' Freedom line. Find an excuse to let one of these off the chain, and I personally guarantee, the bad guys won't even wanna come out of their caves. Ladies and gentlemen, for your consideration... the Jericho.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Tieryana View Post
    I couldn't find any threads about this topic, so I wanted to get others feed back on this.

    Enchanting is the only profession that is basically forced to give up part of its ability. What I mean by this is the disenchant option on loot, and I think blizzard should remove it or add the other professions to the loot system.

    Example: If I'm grouped with someone that is a miner, skinner or herbalist, and they mine, skin or pick an herb, a window doesn't pop up giving me the option to roll on what they got. So why should everyone have the option to disenchant their BoP gear with my profession that I leveled up. If I want herbs, skins or ore, I have to either level the needed profession for it or buy it from the auction house. So why should enchanters give up enchanting mats. No one else has to give up their mats.

    Am I alone in my thoughts on this? Please keep your comments civil =)
    No you are not alone, this has been posted many MANY times.

    Your argument is flawed.

    When a miner mines, they get ore and make what?
    When a skinner skins, they get skin and make what?
    When a herbalist, uh, pulls that flower, they get a flower, and make what?

    When an enchanter disenchants, they get mats, and make.... holy crap, look at all the stuff they can make.

    The enchanter is a profession that allows you to create your own mats from something you can actually go out and farm yourself without having to compete with anyone else. And if you choose to do it in a dungeon, you still have a fair chance of some come back. Unlike the other three that could on a bad day go out farming and come back with nothing.

    Perhaps if your ability to enchant stuff was taken from you, then what you say would be fair. Would you like that?

    Quote Originally Posted by 999tigger View Post
    You misunderstand his argument, which is his profession is used irrespective of his consent. The loot does drop whether or not an enchanter is present, but instead of mats you would get the less valuable/ useful undisenchanted item which you would have to vendor if it was soulbound. His complaint is , his profession is hijacked, which is true.
    You have a point.

    Blizzard should make the disenchant option available regardless of whether there is an enchanter in the group.

    That way it is just another loot option and not linked at all to a member of the group, and so not hijacking a players profession.

    Does this sound fair?
    Last edited by tenaka30; 2012-11-15 at 08:23 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion Hazzikostas
    LFR justifies the creation of more raid content when millions of players are able to see content. Only a few thousand people actually saw Kel'thuzad, but millions saw Deathwing. The reason Mists of Pandaria is starting with 18 bosses and adding larger raid tiers than we have had previously is because many players are going to see the raids through LFR.
    So Hardcore elitest raiders trying to get LFR removed are in fact essentially trying to kill off their own content!

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by moremana View Post
    This topic actually has been up before, and I agree, the option should be removed, all it does is kill the enchanting mats market.

    Plain and simple, and if you don't see that then have blizz share your ore and herbs with us and see how you like it....prices would crash!
    The enchanting mats market is controlled by people doing mat shuffles, not random instance drops. Shuflers can DE hundreds of items a day in an hour or so compared to getting a few trash drops and the 3-4 boss shards in a dungeon that takes 30 min and you only have a 20% chance of getting those mats. Even if you consider a few hundred character-instances per day on your server, there are still probably 10 or more people shuffling. So we'll say 2 items DE'd per run in a dungeon X 500 instances for 1k mats vs 10 shufflers x 500 mats for 5k mats and that requires there to be an enchanter in every dungeon run. The fact that shuffling lets you mass produce mats makes it the primary driver of the enchanting mat market.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by speakpkhq View Post
    completely agree with the OP.

    yes, without the miner, there is no ORE.
    but, without the DE'er, there are no ENCH MATS.
    Yes, there are still enchanting materials. They just haven't been disenchanted yet; the greens and blues still exist, still dropped.

    There was also a brilliant comparison earlier on saying how 'if ore could be rolled on in dungeons, gg watch the price drop!!!' Er. No. The vast majority of ore is from the world, not dungeons; the ore from dungeons is a pitifully small portion of the overall amount. No miner relies on ore from dungeons. On the other hand, a significant amount of enchanting materials come from dungeons and raids (the majority even, for some types of enchanting materials; there's no 'epic ore' that can be gained only from raids, for example), so it honestly cannot be compared.

    I honestly thought we were done with this pointless discussion. The disenchant button is here to stay; best get used to it. You're not being 'violated' or any silly thing by being 'forced' to disenchant loot for others in the group. It's giving people another option for the loot that they already won; the enchanter is not missing out on any materials, at all.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    The difference is that the enchanting profession relies on the ability to disenchant items. Those items are rolled for, whether or not an enchanter is present. You're not losing your enchanting materials, because you wouldn't have gotten them in the first place.
    Before LFD most enchanters would volunteer to DE the BoP drops and the group would roll for them after the run was over. With LFD you cant trade items across servers so you cant distribute those shards, therefore Blizz put the DE roll option in to do it for you. So yes, unless the enchanter was greedy and didn't want to help people in the group use useless drops (probably the same people in this thread that don't like the DE option), you would get mats.

    Also enchanting makes gold by selling scrolls and can be done by buying cheap mats and selling scrolls for more than the mat price, no DEing necessary. So in the same way as Blacksmithing, you can buy mats to make stuff to sell, except if a BS wants to make mats, he has to also have mining and use up another profession whereas the enchanter is a crafting and gathering prof in one. Really, enchanters have nothing to complain about since they can have 3 effective professions on one character.

  14. #34
    The only thing you enchanters complaining about the button are, is greedy. Removing the DE button would make enchanting op. Easy as that. It would essentially give us 2 professions in one. Enchanting and a new gathering proffesion: Disenchanting. Enchant prices would skyrocket and everyone, who wants to make seroius money (with professions and not playing the AH) would be forced to have at least one enchanter, if not enchanting on every toon.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by speakpkhq View Post
    the only way to make it the fairest is to remove the DE option from the roll box and to let people do it manually. so you win a drop? ok, sell it for gold or if it's boe, pay a de'er to de it for you. same with the miner. so you get some ore from a dungeon? grats! sell it for gold or use it yourself/alt.
    The only way to make it fairer is to waste enchanters time more? Seriously? I have enchanters now. I had enchanters in Vanilla/TBC. Dungeons took longer and I have to screw around more to do the DEing that is expected/done if you're not a giant asshole anyway. This achieves the same outcome more efficiently.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Asparuch View Post
    I don´t care if system "used" my ench to group roll table, its ok in raids if noone want blues or epics, but in HCs it pissed me sometimes off. I have bad luck on boss drop and this way I dont even have a chance to sell greens on my own. Every "idiot" choose "DE" if its there on greens, doesn´t matter if it is worthless 4g piece or plate/weap with vendor price on 20-30g...What I´ll get? Stupid 2-4 dusts...
    And no, since beggining, I have never win roll on greed when even one person chose "DE" so I very long time thought that DE has bigger priority on roll as NEED has...
    Maybe I´m wrong but as I have said, never ever won on GREED against DE...
    My main has enchanting so I roll greed on items so that I get a chance to take advantage of the guild perk. Unless people have been passing and I've just not noticed then I can confirm that you're wrong about the Greed v DE rolls.

  17. #37
    Why do you care? And don't say because enchanting mats are extremely cheap because everyone can get their BOP de'd because they aren't.

    Level 45 - 60 essences on my server go for 45 - 60g per pop, and dusts from 60 - 85 are like 5 - 10 g per. The stuff still sells like hotcakes. Please don't whine about not being able to make money, I've made like 2k gold with enchanting on my level 60 shaman so far by buying 10 gold greens and DEing them for 100s of golds in mats (when lucky and get a couple nether essences) or like 30 - 40 gold when unlucky.

    oh and I'm on a high pop server too.

    Like do you guys (like the op) seriously have issues making money or do you just want something to complain about?

    don't even get me started on making epic alch trinkets for 2k gold and DEing them for a 4k gold epic shard back in Cata. You have to try to not make massive money off of enchanting.
    Last edited by Resies; 2012-11-15 at 09:59 AM.

  18. #38
    My thoughts are that you are greedy. Without those other 4 people, you wouldn't get shit to d/e.

    Why should you profit from their hard work?

    Besides, enchanting is hard work? Since when? It's the one profession I always pick when I really can't be arsed with professions. With the quest rewards to DE and all the random greens, it's a profession that practically levels itself.

  19. #39
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
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    I would agree that there shouldn't be a DE option for BoP gear, only for BoE. But hey I don't mind

  20. #40

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