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  1. #41
    *sigh* not this shit again.

    When the otpion came out thousands of topics came out on each wow forum with the same arguements as above.

    it doenst MATTER. its not your mats. they won the greed roll. it hardly affects the prices. ITS IRRELEVANT that they get the option because you're around. Its lousy of you to begrudge them the 2-3 dust or 1 crystal they got out if it for a roll they won.

    Greedy and selfish. thats what these complaints are.

    seriously enchanters are one of the most powerful players in the markets compared to the other profs.
    Last edited by Tenjen; 2012-11-15 at 11:27 AM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by speakpkhq View Post
    completely agree with the OP.

    yes, without the miner, there is no ORE.
    but, without the DE'er, there are no ENCH MATS.

    derp?

    the only way to make it the fairest is to remove the DE option from the roll box and to let people do it manually. so you win a drop? ok, sell it for gold or if it's boe, pay a de'er to de it for you. same with the miner. so you get some ore from a dungeon? grats! sell it for gold or use it yourself/alt.

    i would not even vote for the miner/skinner to have their proceeds available for group roll, since their items are found "in the wild." Bring it back to vanilla/bc system and it will be all equal again. non-miners/skinners can't mine/skin stuff in dungeons/the wild, and non-enchanters can't roll for DE mats from items that drop in the wild.

    logical to me.

    edit: funny part to me is when other people see "xx was disenchanted by speakpkhq" but they see that i rolled greed and ask why not DE. i explain that guild perk gives me extra mats when i de manually, and then they get mad. stfu!
    It's not logical at all because if you really played in TBC and vanilla then you would know that any enchanter in the group would gather the blue items and DE them and then hand out the shards. Without the rest of the groups effort you would not have access at all either to those shards. It's not that you killed those bosses all on your own. And comparing shards to some small amount of standard ore is ridiculous. Besides it's a moot point as Enchanting is a primary profession and Mining isn't.

    If the enchanter would not cooperate with handing out shards then the group would just roll greed and you'd not get your shards either. The system was put in place to avoid drama and help enchanters along so they didn't have to manually disenchant and then decide how to divide them among the party.

    What affected the prices is not the option to disenchant in instances but the fact that a lot MORE people do instances due to LFD.
    Last edited by Cairhiin; 2012-11-15 at 11:28 AM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Tieryana View Post
    I couldn't find any threads about this topic, so I wanted to get others feed back on this.

    Enchanting is the only profession that is basically forced to give up part of its ability. What I mean by this is the disenchant option on loot, and I think blizzard should remove it or add the other professions to the loot system.

    Example: If I'm grouped with someone that is a miner, skinner or herbalist, and they mine, skin or pick an herb, a window doesn't pop up giving me the option to roll on what they got. So why should everyone have the option to disenchant their BoP gear with my profession that I leveled up. If I want herbs, skins or ore, I have to either level the needed profession for it or buy it from the auction house. So why should enchanters give up enchanting mats. No one else has to give up their mats.

    Am I alone in my thoughts on this? Please keep your comments civil =)
    Another insipid treat from a loser with 1 toon.

    What about those blacksmith key that open lockbox ... go cry about that ... oh wait you dont have a rogue alt I'm guessing.

  4. #44
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    sure the OP is completely right, you are being forced to do something, in the same way it was customary for the rogue to open lock boxes and before LFD for you to DE the blue and epic Bops.

    but, a) 99% of people did that or would have if asked it was a QoL issue.
    b) the economy argument is stupid shuffelling dominates the markets not random greens in LFD.
    c) that everyone should be able to roll on any ore and skins is the same yes, But they are nowhere near each other in scale. (also the loss is different vending the green VS no one getting the ores or skins)
    d) the true reason blizzard enabled it was not to screw with chanters but rather to try to keep LFD somewhat civil, look at people needing the final thing from a dungeon since they don´t have to bother to be nice anymore, look at what hapens to greens in LFR - they get Ded more often than not but look at lock boxes -Someone Will need on them and that´s why the DE option is in there else Everyone would start needing on everything but more often that not (at least in wrath) the mats were much more valuable than the vendor price.
    e) as some previously have stated no there were LOADS of these whine posts back when the option was enabled, most just gave up since its been, what almost four years?

    in conclusion yeah the OP is "right" but it makes no mater since it wasn't put there to be nice/mean to anyone but to try to avoid a Auto-need Fiesta.
    Last edited by goblinpaladin; 2012-11-15 at 12:04 PM. Reason: typo, gramar

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    In TBC, there was a simple rule. If you were an Enchanter, you were expected to disenchant all the BoP blues in dungeons (or epics in raids) that nobody needed, free of charge. If you tried to ask for a fee or tip, everyone would just say "screw that, everyone Need on the blue for vendor". They added this feature because Enchanters asked for it, to automate something they were doing anyway.
    Maybe at you. Never was expected at my server. Some did it because they where nice, but no. you could leave and let them rot with BoPs that couldn't be DE'd which i always did if they havn't been exemplaric little kids during the entire run :P

    Besides, he has a valid point, specially with skinning. In cata our disenchants go to everybody. But the skinner could loot the valuable skin from dragonkins, that the rest of us killed, while they ran behind and said "PLS LOOT!"

    I'm sure OP is fine with people needing/greeding their items, it's just annoying that the mats are worthless now, since everybody have it piling up in their bags. If it really was so free, why isn't it a standard-option, but require an enchanter with the right lvl for it?

    If anything they could have made it an enchanters option "do you want to let the others be able to disenchant".

    I have money enough, and don't care much either, but that doesn't make him less right ;P

    Edit:
    Where is our "unlock lockbox"-option, when a rogue is in the group?
    Everyone has so much to say
    They talk talk talk their lives away

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Tieryana View Post
    I couldn't find any threads about this topic, so I wanted to get others feed back on this.
    Something tells me you didn't bother searching, because this topic is very old and none of the hundred threads that discussed it went anywhere. Just give it a rest. The DE feature is the best solution for Enchanting mats in a Dungeon Finder run.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmist View Post
    My thoughts are that you are greedy. Without those other 4 people, you wouldn't get shit to d/e.

    Why should you profit from their hard work?

    Besides, enchanting is hard work? Since when? It's the one profession I always pick when I really can't be arsed with professions. With the quest rewards to DE and all the random greens, it's a profession that practically levels itself.
    You misdunderstand his argument and try to use one that doesnt hold up.
    You say he wouldnt get any loot of it wasnt for the other 4 in the group, but that is the same for everyone. You say he is profiting from their hard work but presumably he is doing his fair share in the group as well?

    You can extend his whine a little further by saying why doesnt everyone else who has raw mats that drop in an instance get to use the professions of others to make them into something more useful? Tailors/ LW, Alchemists, BS etc. As for enchanting leveling itself lol.

    U cnat see why you lot dont realise he has a point (involuntary use of his profession), but its a bit whiney and as windfury said its there for faster instancing. Im an enchanter and I dont mind at all. the enchanting option speeds things up. Enchanting mats are just a distraction.

  8. #48
    Mechagnome Yerbury's Avatar
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    Enchanting is a primary profession. Disenchanting is a nice perk that extends from that profession. The OP is drawing a comparison between the mechanics of a primary profession (e.g. mining) on the one hand and a secondary benefit derived from a primary profession (disenchanting from enchanting) on the other. This is an apples and oranges comparison which, in my view, holds no water.
    Remember this, kids, it is very important. Even if your mommy makes you a super hero costume, do not attempt to do any of these things, especially flying. Because you cannot do it. You do not have super powers. Because there is only one Super Grover. And that is me.

  9. #49
    My main is an enchanter and I love the disenchant button. It saves me the time I spent disenchanting for guildies and it means I get enchanting mats on my alts who don't have enchanting.

    People really need to stop complaining about this feature; it's not new and it's certainly not going anywhere. Furthermore, I still have yet to see a valid argument against it; comparing Enchanting to a gathering profession is just plain stupid, as you're talking apples and oranges here. The only profession that can even remotely be compared is Tailoring, so if you're advocating for the removal of the disenchant button, you should also be advocating for ONLY tailors to be able to loot cloth. Do you really want that??
    Last edited by jaimelannister; 2012-11-15 at 07:46 PM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by 999tigger View Post
    You misunderstand his argument, which is his profession is used irrespective of his consent. The loot does drop whether or not an enchanter is present, but instead of mats you would get the less valuable/ useful undisenchanted item which you would have to vendor if it was soulbound. His complaint is , his profession is hijacked, which is true.

    Your second point about ores and herbs not dropping is also inccorrect as far as I am aware. Ores and herbs in instances have always been present in instances whether a profession exists which can take advantage of this or not. Ghost mushrooms in Maraudon being an example.
    Sure, herbs and ore nodes are still present in instances, but they do not drop anything unless there's someone there to mine them. Bosses, however, continue to drop loot.

    And, no, I did not misunderstand his argument. He's complaining that other people get to roll on his mats but he can't roll on theirs.

    Example: If I'm grouped with someone that is a miner, skinner or herbalist, and they mine, skin or pick an herb, a window doesn't pop up giving me the option to roll on what they got. So why should everyone have the option to disenchant their BoP gear with my profession that I leveled up. If I want herbs, skins or ore, I have to either level the needed profession for it or buy it from the auction house. So why should enchanters give up enchanting mats. No one else has to give up their mats.
    See the bolded and underlined part? That is from the original post. He is complaining because other people can roll on his mats (in other words, dungeon loot) but he cannot roll on theirs. He fails to understand that boss loot is not, be default, his "mats." They are items that other people can roll on to use or sell. So, once again, it's an invalid argument because enchanting mats (dungeon loot) are not defaulted to the enchanter -- they are rolled on and this is how the system has worked since Vanilla. The only change is that we no longer have to trust the enchanter not to keep the mats when we win the roll. Almost anyone can recall the days when some enchanters rolled need on absolutely everything and kept the mats. They would even wait for people to pass them items to DE, keep them, and leave the group. This was common and really goes to show why the change was needed in the first place.

    Blizzard said, long ago, that if they were going to change the system again, they'd probably remove the need to have an enchanter in the group for the disenchant option to appear. It's clear that Blizzard is not siding with enchanters on this.

    Either way, read what I quoted. It's proof of the OP's greed and selfishness. If you don't see it, read it again.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Prokne View Post
    The enchanting mats market is controlled by people doing mat shuffles, not random instance drops. Shuflers can DE hundreds of items a day in an hour or so compared to getting a few trash drops and the 3-4 boss shards in a dungeon that takes 30 min and you only have a 20% chance of getting those mats. Even if you consider a few hundred character-instances per day on your server, there are still probably 10 or more people shuffling. So we'll say 2 items DE'd per run in a dungeon X 500 instances for 1k mats vs 10 shufflers x 500 mats for 5k mats and that requires there to be an enchanter in every dungeon run. The fact that shuffling lets you mass produce mats makes it the primary driver of the enchanting mat market.
    At last, someone who understands the magnitude of this none problem.

    Serious enchanters don't care about this feature and will continue to own the market through mat generation and scroll selling.
    Last edited by Th1ghsofSteel; 2012-11-15 at 11:03 PM.

  12. #52
    Kuku2
    And, no, I did not misunderstand his argument. He's complaining that other people get to roll on his mats but he can't roll on theirs.
    If thats what you think then you do not understand his argument. By having an enchanter present you get enchanting materials which are more valuable and useful rather than vendor trash. He wants the choice of choosing whether to make his deing skill available or not.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Delaios View Post
    Something tells me you didn't bother searching, because this topic is very old and none of the hundred threads that discussed it went anywhere. Just give it a rest. The DE feature is the best solution for Enchanting mats in a Dungeon Finder run.
    Its because they all get locked after about 4-5 pages.

    Quote Originally Posted by Th1ghsofSteel View Post
    Serious enchanters don't care about this feature and will continue to own the market through mat generation and scroll selling.
    I'm an enchanter that has 95% of the enchants in game, and has at least 1 of every profitable enchant up on the ah at any given time. I dont care about this feature at all.

  14. #54
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    Take de'ing away from the enchanting profession imo, make it a gathering profession like mining or skinning. Enchanting becomes a solely crafting profession with mats gathered by a gathering profession. Another option would be simply give every player the option to DE when looting a green or higher quality item. Enchanting becomes a solely crafting profession with mats that everyone can get. Much in the same way that tailoring uses cloth.

  15. #55
    Mechagnome Yerbury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 999tigger View Post
    Kuku2


    If thats what you think then you do not understand his argument. By having an enchanter present you get enchanting materials which are more valuable and useful rather than vendor trash. He wants the choice of choosing whether to make his deing skill available or not.
    We aren't talking about vendor trash. Items that are capable of being disenchanted have value, and even low-level items will sell on the AH for - often - an amount equivalent to or in excess of the proportionate value of enchanting mats derived from a disenchant.
    Remember this, kids, it is very important. Even if your mommy makes you a super hero costume, do not attempt to do any of these things, especially flying. Because you cannot do it. You do not have super powers. Because there is only one Super Grover. And that is me.

  16. #56
    this thread Is a time machine to the year 2010.

  17. #57
    Don't make demands to Blizzard on a website that has 0 affiliation to Blizzard. That's just a waste of energy.
    It's not going to change, so you might as well just get over it. There's no point in complaining really. Rolling on something people skinned or mined doesn't even compare to disenchanting rolls.

    The only issue with DE rolls, is that you're greedy and wanna play "gimme gimme its all mine" like a toddler. Get over yourself.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    You couldn't find any threads about enchanters whining about "giving away MY mats"? Oh, really.
    Heh, I thought the same thing, a very quick search yielded no less than 100 threads on the subject.
    Apply blizzards model to any other subscription service,you'd be outraged:
    Netflix adds no new movies for a year, you click a new movie, there's a $5 fee.
    You're in an accident, click your onstar button, but there's an addition $20 fee for them to help.
    You turn on your tv only to find all you get are the infomercial channels. Every other show is pay per view.
    See how dumb that model is?

  19. #59
    As far as i can see, every single person for disenchant-button, except 2, fails to see the diffrence, between a BoP item from the boss, and a disenchanted item.
    The 2 people are both enchanters.
    The rest go on with this "LOL WE WOUDL GOTTEN LIKE IT ANYWAIS LIKE!!"
    You would have gotten a BoP item you could sell for 20 gold. Not a shard., that would be a lot more worth.
    The disenchanting in groups before was before lfg, which basically meant almost every group consisted of people you knew.
    No way that enchanters today would still dis for them. People don't even say bye when they leave. Try to convince me that enchanters would stay politely behind an waiting for people to waste their time :P

    Understand the diffrence betwen BoP and mats kk plox like. I don't care about the rest, but it's annoying to read comments from people that read 2 lines and then post.
    Everyone has so much to say
    They talk talk talk their lives away

  20. #60
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    I think it need removing too, the person levelled that profession and DEing is one of their perks, not a perk 5 others in a dungeon can use without permission.

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