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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Everything there except "maybe" is something you're making up. That's how you're quoting him out of context; you're inventing an entirely new context and then inserting his comment into that.


    There is only ONE way to interpret his tweet, based on how the language of English works. He was conceding that the person he was responding to had a point with regards to Elemental. If you're seeing anything else, it's something you're inventing, either deliberately or because you have an inherent bias against Ghostcrawler.


    This is just like that "SLT" debacle during the beta, when one guy asked a question about Stormlash Totem using "SLT", and Ghostcrawler made a (bad) joke by pretending he was referring to Spirit Link Totem, which is what the acronym is typically used for. It was a complete non-issue, but people who hate Ghostcrawler tried to make it into one.
    Actually he was conceding that the person maybe had a point in regards to elemental with heavy implications of it being irrelevant. The English language can indeed be very precise when used precisely, but it can be very nebulous if used in the way GC used it. So no there is not only one way to interpret his tweet.

    "Do players really silence / interrupt Enhance often? Elemental... maybe."
    It is pretty easy to take this statement and run with the logic that his question was rhetorical, and that he doesn't see it being an issue for either. His statement can easily be read as (Do players really silence / interrupt Enhance often? No, I don't think they do. As for Elemental you maybe have a point, but it’s not really an issue if you ask me.) Of course this being twitter and people using rapid fire thoughts makes it hard to really know what he was saying due to the stupidity that is twitter.

  2. #142
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Then try to tell what he was trying to say with his tweet?
    Again; he was saying that Elemental likely would be affected, and implying that this hadn't been considered. The subsequent tweets back this up.

    The point is; you're claiming intent with absolutely no evidence to suggest it actually existed.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    and implying that this hadn't been considered.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The point is; you're claiming intent with absolutely no evidence to suggest it actually existed.
    Same applies for you, i can hardly see how you can read such an implication in this single word.


    Also, another tweet from GC, referring to a person who posted a thread of lengthy discussion about this change on the wow forum.

    " Not sure what to say - we like the change. I understand many players would like more opportunity to try and talk us out of it. "
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  4. #144
    Stood in the Fire shell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altrec View Post
    Actually he was conceding that the person maybe had a point in regards to elemental with heavy implications of it being irrelevant. The English language can indeed be very precise when used precisely, but it can be very nebulous if used in the way GC used it. So no there is not only one way to interpret his tweet.

    "Do players really silence / interrupt Enhance often? Elemental... maybe."
    It is pretty easy to take this statement and run with the logic that his question was rhetorical, and that he doesn't see it being an issue for either. His statement can easily be read as (Do players really silence / interrupt Enhance often? No, I don't think they do. As for Elemental you maybe have a point, but it’s not really an issue if you ask me.) Of course this being twitter and people using rapid fire thoughts makes it hard to really know what he was saying due to the stupidity that is twitter.
    Pretty much this. I'm starting to think this whole twitter thing is a really bad idea. Because frankly, I read that last tweet as 'we'll let you vent, but we're not going to change our minds."
    These words in my mouth... where did they come from? I don't think I'm the one that put them there...

  5. #145
    Idano i think i mentioned it in my previous post. I deactivated my wow account finally since bc last week and i think ill have more fun with other games. I cannot take the common response of "reroll mage lock or priest". I decided to play an elemental shaman and enjoy it more than my dk, my rogue, and my druid. Why should i have to go resto to pvp on a competitive level or why should i have to go affliction warlock to do the most dps possible? Or why should i have to have resto os to help the raid? Or lolpvpele when i want to play with friends? Although i can enjoy ele in pve and pvp its just not up to par as almost anything else mentioned.

    And to hear classes are balanced or are fine despite the facts that they're not is getting old. Yes this applies to both pve and pvp. Being told applying the same effort as another ranged dps nets higher results is downright infuriating in my mind. I know no one cares that im quitting or the'good riddance" response is coming but i can speak for most shamans here when i explaining my level of frustration. Alot of feedba k we have given has been ignored or we're left confused and its really not cool to see the same classes getting most attention when its not that needed providing the changes necessary are small.

    Sorry for spelling or grammar on my cell and its not mmochampion friendly. Ill still continue to check forums and updates for ele shamans and those who stick with it like i have , have my respect rather than rerolling fotm like everyone else.

  6. #146
    Easy fix. Keep totems as non-spells, turn all offending Resto-specific totems into spells.

    For example, Spirit Link Totem can be turned into a channelled spell. Buff it up slightly (maybe 20% damage reduction) to make up for it being interuptable and stopping the Shaman from casting other spells for a few seconds.

    Have Healing Steam be replaced by Healing Tide if you're Resto, no reason to have both. Maybe combine them both with Healing Rain as well, so instead of a 20/40 yard (can't remember which it is) aoe heal, its a smaller more concentrated ring of healing. Then buff it up slightly to compensate.

    If someone can't kill a Resto Shaman because of a moderate AoE heal equivilent to a Druid's HoTs while its silenced, then you need to L2P. And it won't effect Enhancement or Elemental at all.

  7. #147
    Stood in the Fire shell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfury View Post
    Idano i think i mentioned it in my previous post. I deactivated my wow account finally since bc last week and i think ill have more fun with other games. I cannot take the common response of "reroll mage lock or priest". I decided to play an elemental shaman and enjoy it more than my dk, my rogue, and my druid. Why should i have to go resto to pvp on a competitive level or why should i have to go affliction warlock to do the most dps possible? Or why should i have to have resto os to help the raid? Or lolpvpele when i want to play with friends? Although i can enjoy ele in pve and pvp its just not up to par as almost anything else mentioned.

    And to hear classes are balanced or are fine despite the facts that they're not is getting old. Yes this applies to both pve and pvp. Being told applying the same effort as another ranged dps nets higher results is downright infuriating in my mind. I know no one cares that im quitting or the'good riddance" response is coming but i can speak for most shamans here when i explaining my level of frustration. Alot of feedba k we have given has been ignored or we're left confused and its really not cool to see the same classes getting most attention when its not that needed providing the changes necessary are small.

    Sorry for spelling or grammar on my cell and its not mmochampion friendly. Ill still continue to check forums and updates for ele shamans and those who stick with it like i have , have my respect rather than rerolling fotm like everyone else.
    I'm sure it seems overdramatic to some people, but I did the same thing. Like I said before, I have to keep things in perspective, and if a change to a game makes me this angry, then its just time to move on.

    Latest twitter:

    Ghostcrawler
    'We thought they were too hard to counter. Have a lot of utility (not just group buffs) in 5.0 and you just have to endure them'
    These words in my mouth... where did they come from? I don't think I'm the one that put them there...

  8. #148
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shell View Post
    Pretty much this. I'm starting to think this whole twitter thing is a really bad idea. Because frankly, I read that last tweet as 'we'll let you vent, but we're not going to change our minds."
    I think the issue is that many people see it as "here's an official Twitter feed that lets us ask the dev team about things directly", and Ghostcrawler sees it as "here's my unofficial Twitter feed to muck about with when I'm on break". I don't recall there being an announcement that Ghostcrawler was joining Twitter on the official site, nor did he open the account with any big official statements.

    It's not an official blog post, and people are treating it as if it were.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I think the issue is that many people see it as "here's an official Twitter feed that lets us ask the dev team about things directly", and Ghostcrawler sees it as "here's my unofficial Twitter feed to muck about with when I'm on break". I don't recall there being an announcement that Ghostcrawler was joining Twitter on the official site, nor did he open the account with any big official statements.

    It's not an official blog post, and people are treating it as if it were.
    Possible, but like a person said on the official forum, 'if he wanted it to be private he never should have opened the channels to game discussion on there at all.'

    Because of this... however wrong it may be to treat them as official... the tweets are the only thing we have to go by at this point in time.
    These words in my mouth... where did they come from? I don't think I'm the one that put them there...

  10. #150
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shell View Post
    Possible, but like a person said on the official forum, 'if he wanted it to be private he never should have opened the channels to game discussion on there at all.'

    Because of this... however wrong it may be to treat them as official... the tweets are the only thing we have to go by at this point in time.
    I'm not trying to say his Twitter was an awesome idea. I've yet to see anything really good come out of it, and a lot of stuff to complain about. I think the Dev Watercoolers were plenty for communicating to us, and the forums were better for responding to questions.

    I'm just saying, some people treat that twitter as if it were as official as patch notes, and it ain't. It's one dude who works at Blizzard saying his own thing, he's not speaking for "the WoW class dev team".

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I'm not trying to say his Twitter was an awesome idea. I've yet to see anything really good come out of it, and a lot of stuff to complain about. I think the Dev Watercoolers were plenty for communicating to us, and the forums were better for responding to questions.

    I'm just saying, some people treat that twitter as if it were as official as patch notes, and it ain't. It's one dude who works at Blizzard saying his own thing, he's not speaking for "the WoW class dev team".
    Well, its not just any guy. He's lead system designer, which means he probably gets a final say in many decisions. He also uses "we" and "us" quite often, which would suggest he is speaking on behalf of the development team -- not all of the time, but def a lot of the time.

  12. #152
    Pit Lord Protoman's Avatar
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    Elemental already is pretty limited by interrupts cause their main damage and heals are in the same nature magic school but if they got locked out of totems with a silence too then that is just overkill. This SHOULD be an example of something they test and decide not to go forward with it but I'm afraid that won't be the case here and that will really suck if it does go live. Totems should feel powerful in some aspects, being physical and not effected by silence was one of the few remaining plus points.....this nerf will really just make totems feel bleh and inferior in so many ways.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I've been saying for months that, with regards to Elemental in particular, we needed MORE protection against silences/lockouts, not more of our abilities to be vulnerable to the same.
    I totally agree there should be even MORE aura mastery effect in the game, it's not like literally every healer class has one right now... /sarcasm off.

    I'm sorry, but if anything there should be LESS interrupt protections in the game. Interrupts were already nerfed from 10 seconds to 15 seconds.

  14. #154
    ----W ‏@aeriale
    @Ghostcrawler Why are there almost no ele shamans in top ladders compared to some other casters ? please answer!

    ++++18 Nov Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
    @aeriale in a raid you have room for 25. In a 3, you can be extremely picky. Plus, with Resto being is dominant, many shaman switch.

    -----18 Nov John Walker ‏@sant_john
    @Ghostcrawler @aeriale So why nerf all specs? Reducing the benefit of mastery in PvP would fix resto, but ele isn't even viable pre-nerfs.

    +++++3h Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
    @sant_john We don't think it's all about the healing, and Resto PvE healing is fine. We think totems are too good.

    -----3h trololo ola ‏@showdowninsh
    @Ghostcrawler @sant_john people will stop complaining about resto pvp nerfs if you nerf frost bomb/ warrior cd stacking/ resto drood control

    +++++3h Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
    @showdowninsh There are mage and warrior nerfs in 5.1. Keeping an eye on Cyclone for now.



    I am at a loss for words..all hope is lost guys.
    Last edited by Rawfury; 2012-11-20 at 12:56 AM.

  15. #155
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus
    I've been saying for months that, with regards to Elemental in particular, we needed MORE protection against silences/lockouts
    Quote Originally Posted by Terahertz View Post
    I totally agree there should be even MORE aura mastery effect in the game, it's not like literally every healer class has one right now... /sarcasm off.

    I'm sorry, but if anything there should be LESS interrupt protections in the game. Interrupts were already nerfed from 10 seconds to 15 seconds.
    Thanks for reading what you quoted, bud.

    And if they wanted to make those things stronger, then remove the protections from ALL classes. This is a targeted nerf at Shaman, not a generic "we don't want interrupts/silences to be so strong". And again; our DPS specs weren't performing amazingly well in PvP already; Enhancement would likely have been okay with the incoming nerfs to a few specs, but Elemental is still lagging.
    Last edited by Endus; 2012-11-20 at 03:40 AM.

  16. #156
    Stood in the Fire shell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman View Post
    Elemental already is pretty limited by interrupts cause their main damage and heals are in the same nature magic school but if they got locked out of totems with a silence too then that is just overkill. This SHOULD be an example of something they test and decide not to go forward with it but I'm afraid that won't be the case here and that will really suck if it does go live. Totems should feel powerful in some aspects, being physical and not effected by silence was one of the few remaining plus points.....this nerf will really just make totems feel bleh and inferior in so many ways.
    and the thing is, I'm not so sure that resto won't be able to adjust with the toolkit they have. If they adjust too well, they may start looking at individual totems when they should be doing that in the first place. and you can guarantee when/if that happens they won't go back and revert this change. i know i'm getting ahead of myself but i'm so damn mad about this. it could take until never before enh/ele get compensation.

    and what is up with ppl thinking that shaman is resto, resto, resto.
    These words in my mouth... where did they come from? I don't think I'm the one that put them there...

  17. #157
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shell View Post
    and what is up with ppl thinking that shaman is resto, resto, resto.
    Resto's OP, and they can't understand why anyone wouldn't just play the FoTM spec?

    That's all I'm coming up with. I've been pushing for Elemental to be a strong DPS spec since TBC. We've always had PvP-oriented abilities, but outside the KABOOM period near the end of WotLK where you could burst people down as a glass cannon, those talents have never really worked out very well. That's obviously a non-factor now, but consider Thunderstorm, one of our iconic class abilities; it's almost entirely designed for PvP. We even have glyphs to REMOVE one of the main features to make it more usable in PvE.

    Elemental should be at least reasonable competitive, and it's not. It's better than it was in Cata, but not by a lot.

  18. #158
    those tweets...

    -----18 Nov John Walker ‏@sant_john
    @Ghostcrawler @aeriale So why nerf all specs? Reducing the benefit of mastery in PvP would fix resto, but ele isn't even viable pre-nerfs.

    +++++3h Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
    @sant_john We don't think it's all about the healing, and Resto PvE healing is fine. We think totems are too good.

    Why doesn't he answer the question? the question was "why nerf all specs".
    He just gives comment why changing healing is not ok. and no GC totems are not too good. Elemental has also totems and doesn't do as good as resto... Resto has more totems, so if totems are that good, maybe it are the extra totems in his arsenal that are too good?

    This twitter crap is just stupid PR

    Many shaman reroll resto...
    Well GC don't be a lazy bum, make them reroll ele or enhance. You don't accomplish that with a class wide nerf as resto will still be the best.
    nerf the fotm spec and boost the non fotm specs.
    Why do you boost disc for PvP? they have shadow and many rerolled shadow. Why don't you give shaman the same treatment?

  19. #159
    Shaman needs to be on pair with the other healer specs.
    I have all the healer specs, mainly arenas, and Shaman, wich has the highest skill cap BTW (if well played), is the most viable in EVERY way. Offensively and defensively.

    This is a very needed nerf to a class that is obviously very strong.

    no hard feelings.

  20. #160
    Stood in the Fire shell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warcel View Post
    Shaman needs to be on pair with the other healer specs.
    I have all the healer specs, mainly arenas, and Shaman, wich has the highest skill cap BTW (if well played), is the most viable in EVERY way. Offensively and defensively.

    This is a very needed nerf to a class that is obviously very strong.

    no hard feelings.
    None taken but its annoying when people keep saying they need to 'nerf a class that's strong.' Shaman is a class, resto is a spec. Enh/Ele aren't nearly as strong as resto. Also annoyed because almost every caster class/spec has a damage reduction cd that they can use while being controlled. In lieu of that, they have cds that prevent sliences/interrupts for a short period of time. When they provide my elemental shaman with one of those things then I'll be somewhat appeased. Until such a time, I will continue to be annoyed.
    These words in my mouth... where did they come from? I don't think I'm the one that put them there...

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