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  1. #1

    Anyone else think that Totem should not be considered as spells?

    Silence are a terrible plea when you play shaman and now we won't be able to do anything whie we are silenced.

    Even enhancement shaman will now be a valid silence target...

    What's your thoughts about this?
    Victory to the Alliance !

  2. #2
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    I've been saying for months that, with regards to Elemental in particular, we needed MORE protection against silences/lockouts, not more of our abilities to be vulnerable to the same.

    I'm really not sure where this change is coming from, or what it's intended to address. The only thing that springs to mind is maybe the issue of trying to lock down a Restoration Shaman in PvP, when they can still drop Healing Stream, Healing Tide, and Spirit Link Totems while interrupted/silenced. If that's the issue, though, I'd want to see a new spec passive for at least Elemental to provide some interrupt/silence resistance and perhaps a spec-specific exclusivity for totems. Enhancement as well, perhaps, though it's more for silences specifically; Enhancement doesn't tend to hard-cast very much and thus is significantly less vulnerable to interrupts than Elemental (and those interrupt lockouts will affect totems, now; interrupt a Lightning Bolt and bam, can't drop Grounding/Capacitor for the lockout period).

  3. #3
    Sigh. Really wish we would get some reasoning for why this was done

  4. #4
    Stood in the Fire shell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfury View Post
    Sigh. Really wish we would get some reasoning for why this was done
    I'm curious too but at the same I don't care what the reason is because I suspect the answer has something to do with resto shamans.

    On the one hand, I just can't see them going through with this, at least not without compensation; on the other hand, the notes before this they said was a release candidate which means 5.1 is coming soon. This doesn't mean they can't change their mind though.

    I'm not the overly dramatic type, I tend to stay even keeled, cool headed but this has me pretty riled up. PvP is all I do and elemental is all I play. I raided a bit in the past (not on my shaman though), I've done a lot of dungeons, and I am an altoholic. But PvP is what I enjoy and I like elemental more than any of my other characters. Unfortunately, all I can do now is hope for the best and expect the worst but I'll be doing that while posting why I think this is bad on the official forums.

    That's my suggestion to everyone, whether you think it makes a difference or not, whether you play restoration, enhancement, or elemental, go on the forums and ask them to revert this change.
    These words in my mouth... where did they come from? I don't think I'm the one that put them there...

  5. #5
    Dreadlord zenga's Avatar
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    The main problem for me is no longer being able to cast grounding when you get a blanket silence. This is quite (another) a significant nerf for ele's - not 'because of ele' (before certain history teachers jump on it). They've said they think resto is too strong in pvp, and it's the only reason for the nerf that makes sense (even during a silence resto's could still link for example which is a bit OP). As for enhancement becoming a silence target, dk's are pretty much in the same boat.

  6. #6
    BS ... totems are not spells. They are tools to summon stuff with.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  7. #7
    It makes sense on some level in regards to Resto Shaman being able to use many cooldowns while locked out, but on the same token, that's always been the totem flavor. They are physical objects that can be killed as a counter. As a mechanic, totems have their downsides and this was their upside. With this change, totems will have all the negatives of every other cooldown, while also having their own downsides and no more unique benefit.

  8. #8
    I'm also certain that this change is too adress resto shaman survivability, but as an Elemental Shaman, I'm really tired of getting nerfed because one spec i really don't care about is too strong :/
    Victory to the Alliance !

  9. #9
    Stood in the Fire shell's Avatar
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    I guess I'll be avoiding totems at all costs?

    I don't like astral shift because the cd is too long for me, I'm currently using SBT, but if this goes through I won't be able to, so I guess NG. Which is fine I like it but uhh... I also like having a choice. Frozen Power is the only thing that's not a totem in that tier. I was sort of an oddball when it came to tier 3 because I like it but not so much now. I guess tier 4 is fine. HTT is out but I'm not picking up AG or conductivity so leave that one blank. And I'll leave tier 6 blank because i don't want to be caught casting lightning bolt or elemental blast for fear that I can't use a totem.

    I'm being ridiculous, but this change is ridiculous.
    These words in my mouth... where did they come from? I don't think I'm the one that put them there...

  10. #10
    hahahahahaa. dat. hybrid. tax.
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  11. #11
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I've been saying for months that, with regards to Elemental in particular, we needed MORE protection against silences/lockouts, not more of our abilities to be vulnerable to the same.

    I'm really not sure where this change is coming from, or what it's intended to address. The only thing that springs to mind is maybe the issue of trying to lock down a Restoration Shaman in PvP, when they can still drop Healing Stream, Healing Tide, and Spirit Link Totems while interrupted/silenced. If that's the issue, though, I'd want to see a new spec passive for at least Elemental to provide some interrupt/silence resistance and perhaps a spec-specific exclusivity for totems. Enhancement as well, perhaps, though it's more for silences specifically; Enhancement doesn't tend to hard-cast very much and thus is significantly less vulnerable to interrupts than Elemental (and those interrupt lockouts will affect totems, now; interrupt a Lightning Bolt and bam, can't drop Grounding/Capacitor for the lockout period).
    Shamans are being nerfed because resto shamans are currently the top healer by far. It is definitely a bad way to fix it, but it's the only way not to harm PvE.

    A better way to fix it would have been to implement this only while interrupted, and then change resto shaman mastery, remove glyph of purge from resto shamans, and by removing totemic restoration from a handful of totems (spirit link, grounding, tremor for example), but that would ruin elemental and enhancement as well as causing tons of complaints from casual BG players/PvE players.

    I'm not saying this particular change is good, but any nerf to bring down restoration shamans was definitely needed.

  12. #12
    what about make this change only for resto, and keep ele and enha out of this? Problem solved.

  13. #13
    Mechagnome Sealed Shut's Avatar
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    would one of you mods tell mmo-champion to post the shaman nerfs already? Just because blizzard tried to sneak them in and did not give them the 'red ink', doesn't mean they aren't new to the patch notes and should be broadcast on the main page. you are doing shamans a disservice by hiding the nerfs.

  14. #14
    Stood in the Fire shell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funkthepunk View Post
    Shamans are being nerfed because resto shamans are currently the top healer by far. It is definitely a bad way to fix it, but it's the only way not to harm PvE.

    A better way to fix it ...
    I'm not trying to split hairs here but it doesn't make sense,in my opinion, to say it's the only way not to harm pve and then go on to list better ways to fix the issue.

    They could start with changing the 2 and 4 piece set resto bonuses. Then they could tone down their mastery in pvp. They've already set the precedent for making abilities and stats(resilience,pvp power) work differently in pve and pvp. I personally don't have a problem with them removing grounding from totemic restoration, as long as they return it to its former cooldown. I don't know about tremor though, we're 1 of several classes that have fear immunity, and not the only one to have it on a short cooldown. And Spirit Link doesn't impact enhancement or elemental one way or another since we don't have it. But if my only choice was between what you are proposing and what the devs are planning to do, I would take your proposals in a heartbeat.

    Which brings me back to the point that there are ways of nerfing resto without impacting pve, and certainly without impacting the dps specs. Obviously some of what you listed would affect pve and some of it would affect the other specs but I'm sure people much smarter than myself could come up with ideas that wouldn't.
    Last edited by shell; 2012-11-15 at 01:32 PM.
    These words in my mouth... where did they come from? I don't think I'm the one that put them there...

  15. #15
    Mechagnome Sealed Shut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funkthepunk View Post
    Shamans are being nerfed because resto shamans are currently the top healer by far. It is definitely a bad way to fix it, but it's the only way not to harm PvE.

    A better way to fix it would have been to implement this only while interrupted, and then change resto shaman mastery, remove glyph of purge from resto shamans, and by removing totemic restoration from a handful of totems (spirit link, grounding, tremor for example), but that would ruin elemental and enhancement as well as causing tons of complaints from casual BG players/PvE players.

    I'm not saying this particular change is good, but any nerf to bring down restoration shamans was definitely needed.
    This is just flat out incorrect. in arena 2200+ holy pally have more representation at 10.2% than resto shaman do at 9%.

    The rest of your comment just prove your bias and butt hurt of some shaman that beat you.

  16. #16
    It sounds like a "my paper can't beat your rock, fix it now waaaaaahhhhh!!!!"

    Something that shouldn't be "fixed" because one spec of one class has the ability to OMG survive in a pvp setting. So lets break an iconic class ability, since its not druid, to fix it.

  17. #17
    Exhibit A: http://www.mmo-champion.com/poll.php...do=showresults

    See the percentage? Watch it grow higher when this hits live

  18. #18
    Totems being 5HP meaning easy to destroy was a good offset to them not being affected by Silence and Lock Outs

    I mean i got my 3 Min CD HTT and its gets killed after 2 tick but it was immune to silence so thats something
    or Grounding Totem when XYZ class is trying to nuke u in a Silence etc etc

    I cannot understand why this change was needed

  19. #19
    Brewmaster Nigeldruid's Avatar
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    This change is dumb and shouldn't go live in my opinion. That being said shamans need change, but this is not it. Shamans aren't hard to kill, and this is a nerf to their survivability. They need to be brought in line in terms of healing and CC dodging. Admittedly, the later is some what fixed by this change, but it's the wrong approach - look at totemic restoration instead. As I've posted on the official forums:

    Totemic Restoration has been changed to
    Totemic Desperation: Totems can now be casted while silenced. This does not affect totems with a cooldown longer than 60 secs.

    Or

    Totemic Desperation: Totems can now be casted while silenced. Totems casted while silenced trigger double cooldown.

    Both obviously still can't be done while locked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneleg View Post
    It sounds like a "my paper can't beat your rock, fix it now waaaaaahhhhh!!!!"

    Something that shouldn't be "fixed" because one spec of one class has the ability to OMG survive in a pvp setting. So lets break an iconic class ability, since its not druid, to fix it.
    Without sounding butthurt, but "since it's not druid" is quite a false statement.. How was resto druids for all of cata again?
    Nothing worth having comes easy. That's why hard content is worth doing, and easy content is a waste of time.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Frostinferno View Post
    It makes sense on some level in regards to Resto Shaman being able to use many cooldowns while locked out, but on the same token, that's always been the totem flavor. They are physical objects that can be killed as a counter. As a mechanic, totems have their downsides and this was their upside. With this change, totems will have all the negatives of every other cooldown, while also having their own downsides and no more unique benefit.
    Thing is, so can other healers for example Paladin. Hell the Paladin can actually use bubble while in CC, resto shamans can't. We already don't have the escape mechanism, instants or defense cool downs other healers have. Totems ARE our whole defense, now we'll be unable to use them when we need them. All this means is that once an blanket silence is applied to you you're going to die if the enemy team trains you, faster then you already do.

    We have a nice healing output so we can to some extent compensate for the insane burst there is right now. The downside is that our overall defensive is pretty weak, that we have to hardcast a whole damn lot and don't have the same ammount of CC other healers have. Just look at holy paladin who can by himself loock out someone from the fight entirely for 12+ seconds without any kind of problem.

    It's a typical uneeded and idiotic Blizzard nerf that hopefully wont go live.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nigeldruid View Post
    This change is dumb and shouldn't go live in my opinion. That being said shamans need change, but this is not it. Shamans aren't hard to kill, and this is a nerf to their survivability. They need to be brought in line in terms of healing and CC dodging. Admittedly, the later is some what fixed by this change, but it's the wrong approach - look at totemic restoration instead. As I've posted on the official forums:
    Our defensive isn't even that strong to begin with, hell we lack much of the utility other classes do and most totems aren't going to last long against decent opponents anyway. The problem is that to some extent we're able to compensate the insane burst and dodge some of the CC. We however lack the same CC other healers have and our defense is far worse then theirs.
    Instead of trying to fix the insane burst and ammount of CC flying around Blizzard is taking an sledgehammer to fix an problem that doesn't really exist.
    Last edited by Deleth; 2012-11-15 at 04:18 PM.

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